joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 1,894
- 2,104
we look prepared for the team we are facing, we look organized on the ice, and consistent in effort under Bannister, all things that were glaringly lacking under Berube over the last year
Brind'Amour 100%. Can you explain your take on Evason because I saw a guy that was thoroughly outcoached in a few playoff series. I certainly might be missing something.Brind'Amour or Dean Evason
Well stated!i don't mean to sound anti-bannister either. i think he has proven to be excellent choice as interim coach. and he might be right guy for permanent job, but i'm not close to ready to decide that. i do think in hindsight that army purposely kept him in springfield this offseason, rather than elevating him to replace mvr. i think he knew he that if (when?) this season went south he might want to axe berube, and he wanted to be able to bring him in clean without already being on coaching staff so he could serve as fresh voice and not be saddled with baggage of what led to berube firing.
and i also now think that when army said he didn't make move because of our record, he meant it. he knows as well as anyone that we aren't talented enough. my sense is that the impetus is that there was too much of a black cloud hovering over team, too much frustration had built up among chief and some key guys, and that team too often had tuned berube out. i think he reasoned that if we didn't have consistency from game to game it would make it much more difficult to both evaluate and develop our players. it would be harder for him to see what we needed, it would be harder for other teams to feel like they were getting valuable assets that they would want to pay up for, and that it would be harder to successfuly develop younger players if they weren't playing within a consistently hard-working, positive, and structured environment.
so i don't think bannister was hired to save our season, in terms of helping us make playoffs, i think he was hired to get more value out of the season, without regard to whether we make playoffs. so if i am basically right on this, it makes me more comfortable with the move. even though i still think berube deserved better.
NHL coaches do not have a union or a CBA with the league the way the players and the refs do. However, there is an NHL coach's association that has a formal partnership with the NHL. Any documents/agreements between the two organizations are private. So is every contract between a coach and the NHL team. Finally, a lot of the NHL's business rules/documents are kept private.Is that true that if an NHL coach is relieved of his duties without cause and a new organization hires said coach, they inherit the contract from the previous employer? Or are you insinuating the previous contract is null and void once the Blues give Berube permission to seek employment and a hypothetical new contract is signed (because again, the coach was “relieved of his duties” and not fired since he had a guaranteed contract and wasn’t fired for cause). Can’t Berube get his money from both the Blues and the new team? I read that in the NFL, teams that fire coaches can use the new contract signed by a different org. as an offset against money owed by the former employer.
Just curious what the rules are in the current CBA in this regard.
And he had a total of 3 offensive players: Kaprizov, Zuccarello and Fiala.Brind'Amour 100%. Can you explain your take on Evason because I saw a guy that was thoroughly outcoached in a few playoff series. I certainly might be missing something.
It depends what his personal timeline is like. He may want to go straight to the NHL, but who is giving him that opportunity? I don't see any competitive NHL team offering him a head coaching job for the next couple seasons. Go through the resumes of all the first time NHL coaches around the league. I can't find one without AHL experience. Cooper had to work his way through the AHL. So did Bednar. So did Keefe. So did Richardson, Carbery, Knoblauch, Tournigy, and Huska.I'd be shocked if Carle would take AHL job. I expect his next position is as an NHL head coach. And for all the reasons you describe, I think he could be a good one.
Of the currently available candidates, Jay Woodcroft is the only name that jumps out to me. I'm not giddy with excitement about him, but I think Edmonton's structure under him was much better than the overall public perception. I firmly believe that their bad start this season was 80% godawful goaltending and 20% McDavid playing through an injury. Their underlying metrics were all still very good and their PP was historic under him last season. Other than that, no one jumps out right now.I'm curious what coach you would be interested in if we move on from Bannister? I was always a huge Trots guy and then I found out he's a f***ing GM now so I'm out of coaching ideas unless it's Brindamour.
Sorry, but I don’t think this is realistic. Montgomery, Quinn, hakstol all went straight from ncaa bench to nhl bench. Quinn has ncaa title and WJC gold now. It would basically be unprecedented in modern times for him to take AHL job. He may not get nhl job this season, or ever, but it is far, far more likely that if he leaves du on his own it’s to be nhl coach rather than AHL one.It depends what his personal timeline is like. He may want to go straight to the NHL, but who is giving him that opportunity? I don't see any competitive NHL team offering him a head coaching job for the next couple seasons. Go through the resumes of all the first time NHL coaches around the league. I can't find one without AHL experience. Cooper had to work his way through the AHL. So did Bednar. So did Keefe. So did Richardson, Carbery, Knoblauch, Tournigy, and Huska.
All the 'younger outsider' coaches had to get AHL head coaching experience before an NHL team would give them a job. And all those guys were noticeably older than Carle too.
Carle is 34 years old in his 6th year ever as a head coach at any level. He has never coached pros and has never coached a roster that wasn't more talented than its opponent in the large majority of its games. I think he has a really bright future, but I don't see any NHL team giving him an NHL head coaching job in the near future.
I think his only path to jump straight from the NCAA to an NHL head coaching job would be to spend several more seasons coaching DU. That might be what he wants to do, but he could probably get behind an NHL bench quicker if he makes the jump to AHL coaching this summer. If he wants to make the jump to the pros, he could do much worse than landing with an NHL organization who is looking for a coach to develop and connect with a skilled group of young players coming up through the AHL with an eye on eventually replacing the NHL head coach a few years down the line.
Honestly, our organizational situation next year would be pretty favorable for a young ex-college coach to step in to. Make him an offer that pays him in between your standard AHL and first time NHL coach and I would be fairly surprised if he gets something more appealing.
Quinn was an AHL head coach for 3 years and an assistant NHL coach for a year before going to coach BU. He was in his 50s when he got his first NHL head coaching gig. He doesn't remotely help set a precedent that NCAA coaches don't take AHL jobs. He spent his time there.Sorry, but I don’t think this is realistic. Montgomery, Quinn, hakstol all went straight from ncaa bench to nhl bench. Quinn has ncaa title and WJC gold now. It would basically be unprecedented in modern times for him to take AHL job. He may not get nhl job this season, or ever, but it is far, far more likely that if he leaves du on his own it’s to be nhl coach rather than AHL one.
Sorry, but I don’t think this is realistic. Montgomery, Quinn, hakstol all went straight from ncaa bench to nhl bench. Quinn has ncaa title and WJC gold now. It would basically be unprecedented in modern times for him to take AHL job. He may not get nhl job this season, or ever, but it is far, far more likely that if he leaves du on his own it’s to be nhl coach rather than AHL one.
While what you describe may make teams hesitant to hire him, there is still nothing to suggest that successful coach of Carle stature would leave a top college job to go coach in minors. Ultimately, I guess we shall see whether he decides to do so.Quinn was an AHL head coach for 3 years and an assistant NHL coach for a year before going to coach BU. He was in his 50s when he got his first NHL head coaching gig. He doesn't remotely help set a precedent that NCAA coaches don't take AHL jobs. He spent his time there.
Hakstol was a head coach at the NCAA level for 15 years before making the jump straight to his first NHL head coaching gig. He was in his late 40s. He was the first guy to make that jump without pro experience in modern times and he had a significantly longer track record as a head coach than Carle and he also had a few years of low level pro experience as a player.
Montgomery is the only other one. Prior to coaching, he had a 10+ year pro career as a player and about a decade of head coaching experience at the junior/NCAA level. He was in his late 40s when he got his first NHL coaching gig. I think we can all agree that a lengthy playing career is a career accelerant for coaches and front office guys. Every front office in the league places value on the experience gained by playing the pro game.
That's 2 guys in modern times who have made the jump from NCAA to NHL head coach without getting coaching experience at the pro level. Both were 15 years older than Carle with significantly more experience in the hockey world and actual experience in pro hockey. One had an extra decade of head coaching experience and the other had a lengthy playing career. I hardly think that establishes a precedent that NCAA coaches in their 30s are NHL or bust.
I honestly don't understand how 25+ coaches working their way up through the pro ranks is outweighed by 2 guys who didn't. Especially when these guys had an extra decade+ of experience in the game than the guy we're talking about. Martin St. Louis didn't establish the precedent that anyone can get an NHL head coaching job with no coaching experience outside of coaching their kids in youth hockey. Because the rest of his experience was extremely relevant. Hackstol and Montgomery both had significantly more experience than Carle at the time they made the jump.
Carle's potential pro career as a player was taken from him at a young age, but the fact of the matter is that he didn't ever experience anything close to pro hockey as a player and doesn't have lived experience to draw from regarding pro hockey. He's never experienced the grind of a pro season in any capacity.
The team currently holding the 5th pick has the same number of wins as we did under Berube this season. Could we have landed the 6th? Possibly, but outside of a lotto win, this roster is absolutely not going to land in the top 5The way they were playing at the end under Berube might have been close. And they probably would trade Buch too.
He very well might stay, especially if he doesn't want to coach in the NHL any time soon. Most AHL jobs would likely be a pay cut from the $400k he is making at DU. We could give him a raise.While what you describe may make teams hesitant to hire him, there is still nothing to suggest that successful coach of Carle stature would leave a top college job to go coach in minors. Ultimately, I guess we shall see whether he decides to do so.
The team currently holding the 5th pick has the same number of wins as we did under Berube this season. Could we have landed the 6th? Possibly, but outside of a lotto win, this roster is absolutely not going to land in the top 5
Not 3-7-0, but we're 1-3-1 in the last 5 and increasingly showing signs that the "new coach" effect is wearing off.We go 3-7-0 in the next 10, that's going to change how we're looking at things.
Not 3-7-0, but we're 1-3-1 in the last 5 and increasingly showing signs that the "new coach" effect is wearing off.
A lot of this is still true. Yes, the team is working hard. Aside from a few games, you really can't question the effort guys have had under Bannister. "Working hard" is only getting so far, and I think we're seeing that.I still think this team is playing over its head, and "working hard" is only going to carry it for so long. Using the 95-point threshold, we have to go something like 25-15-4 the rest of the way. As it is, 7-3-0 has moved us from T-9th with Edmonton, a point out of a playoff spot (technically 10th because Edmonton had 2 games in hand on us), to .... T-8th with Edmonton, technically 9th because we lose the first tiebreak [and Edmonton still has 2 games in hand on us]. We go 3-7-0 in the next 10, that's going to change how we're looking at things.