Rumor: Berggren recently rejected Red Wings offer, Calgary and Montreal expressing interest - David Pagnotta

[izlez]

Yzerman is building through the draft since he took over as GM.

95% of his draft picks are too young to be in the NHL yet.

And we're complaining that the Red Wings are too old?

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

I’ve mentioned it in other posts, but he doesn’t possess the same lethal shot as Sprong. That’s the only difference.

To be a smaller/fragile player in the NHL, you have to be the best in one category. Gaudreau and Kane have amazing puck skill, Caufield has a cannon, Burger doesn’t have any elite talent. He’s an above average playmaker and stick handler. He can’t play defence. He isn’t arguably better than anyone in the top 6. He isn’t fit to play in the bottom 6…

Next year if he sticks around he will have another chance to crack the line up in training camp. Otherwise I can see him being moved at the draft for a 3rd or a 2nd if we are lucky, or packaged with a 1st for one heck of a return.

I don’t dislike the player, always have been a fan, I just think some of “us” fans are very unrealistic with this player.

Being a great AHL player doesn’t always translate to being a good NHLer.

This is pretty accurate. He does not have enough individual skill or hockey IQ to play in the top 6, playing the way that he does. We think of him as skilled because we are only comparing him to other options within the organization. He would need to radically change his style of play to become a consistent top 6 (and maybe even top 9) option for most NHL teams.

This organization rarely makes the wrong decision when they move on from a player. The only guys we moved on from who have played reasonably well elsewhere are Janmark (who we let go in a bona fide hockey trade) and Jarnkrok and even those two are 30 point players at best.

 

[lilidk]

Berggy honestly had a combo of bad luck and not having a great camp. He is a small semi one dimensional player. Usually those guys have to have an offensive impact and be in your top 6. The Wings simply don't have room with Kane, DBC, and Ray already up there. Even Larkin isn't a big guy.

I think he can eventually develop into a Hudler, Nyquist, Tatar etc type but I don't see it happening for the Wings with Ray and DBC going to be here for awhile.

He needed to earn his spot out of camp and he didn't. Late season callups usually only stick if they are energy guys in the bottom 6 or elite talent. Ed may not even stick and for the most part he has looked really solid.

He always starts his season slow and gets better later. Berggren needs to have different summer this year and be ready for camp

 

[19 for president]

He always starts his season slow and gets better later. Berggren needs to have different summer this year and be ready for camp

He does and now he's going to be competing with Kasper, Mazur, and Danielson next year for what would likely be a similar spot. Kasper and Danielson have the center bonus, Kasper and Mazur have the grit and could make positive contributions up/down the lineup bonus, and Danielson has the potentially fills a major position of need ala a young Larkin if he puts up another dominant camp.

Berggys best opportunity to make the Wings was beating out a vet in camp this past year and as much as I like him, I can't honestly say he did that.

 

[norrisnick]

He does and now he's going to be competing with Kasper, Mazur, and Danielson next year for what would likely be a similar spot. Kasper and Danielson have the center bonus, Kasper and Mazur have the grit and could make positive contributions up/down the lineup bonus, and Danielson has the potentially fills a major position of need ala a young Larkin if he puts up another dominant camp.

Berggys best opportunity to make the Wings was beating out a vet in camp this past year and as much as I like him, I can't honestly say he did that.

I don't know why people keep stating this as if it were remotely possible.

 

[Henkka]

He always starts his season slow and gets better later. Berggren needs to have different summer this year and be ready for camp

Slow starts usually tell nothing else than about weak summer training.

 

[lilidk]

Slow starts usually tell nothing else than about weak summer training.

He needs to become professional

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Slow starts usually tell nothing else than about weak summer training.

Uh, or injury or adjusting to a new league

 

[19 for president]

I don't know why people keep stating this as if it were remotely possible.

For a guy like Danielson I think it would have been impossible but Berggren had experience from the year before and is 23.

I don't think he was beating big money guys like Copp, Fabbri or Perron but I think if he had significantly outplayed Veleno, Kostin, Fisher or Sprong he would have made the team. We had 4 guys that had minimal cap hits if we sent them to GR, As an offensive first guy he was going to have to play like Sprong did and register points as ES and on the PP. He played more like a meh Veleno and Veleno is better defensively and plays center.

Post camp getting a spot is way harder because it is more likely you lose those vets you send down. Berggren probably deserved a callup but he didn't get a lot of luck on the injury situation. None of the guys that went down semi long term were wingers.

 

[Hen Kolland]

I don't know why people keep stating this as if it were remotely possible.

Yzerman didn't sign to block Seider as a 20 year old, or Raymond as a 19 year old. Edvinsson is up and playing 18-20 minutes instead of the Wings dressing Holl and it looks like it won't be changing. Veleno has been a regular for 2.5 years now in a depth role.

The only "decent" prospect that has had an impossible time cracking the lineup is Berggren. He's consistently being beat by players who are better than him, or offer some veteran presence, or play defense better than him. He played most of the season in Detroit last year and Yzerman still decided that acquiring DeBrincat, Sprong, Compher, Fischer, Kostin and Kane was worthwhile because of some clear doubt in Berggren's game amongst other things. You think that Yzerman or Lalonde would have an issue playing Berggren had he done what he was supposed to do at the start of the season?

He just needs to be coddled and given chances he doesn't earn. Just like Athanasiou was all those years ago. Thanks MBH

 

[norrisnick]

Yzerman didn't sign to block Seider as a 20 year old, or Raymond as a 19 year old. Edvinsson is up and playing 18-20 minutes instead of the Wings dressing Holl and it looks like it won't be changing. Veleno has been a regular for 2.5 years now in a depth role.

The only "decent" prospect that has had an impossible time cracking the lineup is Berggren. He's consistently being beat by players who are better than him, or offer some veteran presence, or play defense better than him. He played most of the season in Detroit last year and Yzerman still decided that acquiring DeBrincat, Sprong, Compher, Fischer, Kostin and Kane was worthwhile because of some clear doubt in Berggren's game amongst other things. You think that Yzerman or Lalonde would have an issue playing Berggren had he done what he was supposed to do at the start of the season?

He just needs to be coddled and given chances he doesn't earn. Just like Athanasiou was all those years ago. Thanks MBH

Those three names pretty much prove the concept.

To make the team as a kid out of camp you either have to be the literal best at your position. See Mo and also see Ed.

Or you need injuries ahead of you. See Ray who made the team largely due to camp injuries to Vrana and Berggren. Ray ran with it. Great. Pretty sure Berggren could have run with a winger spot next to Larkin as well.

Is what it is. But to pretend that a prospect can just "make the team out of camp" is fantasy. It's 90% luck of who gets hurt and when. Even Ed wouldn't be up now if Walman weren't out relatively long term. 1 game they'd have just played Holl.

And AA is completely irrelevant to this discussion. He never did half of what Berggren has done in the AHL. Gus or Hudler or Tatar are the comparables here. If you can't figure out how to make them effective on your NHL roster, that's on the team not the player.

 

[DoMakc]

Yzerman didn't sign to block Seider as a 20 year old, or Raymond as a 19 year old. Edvinsson is up and playing 18-20 minutes instead of the Wings dressing Holl and it looks like it won't be changing. Veleno has been a regular for 2.5 years now in a depth role.

The only "decent" prospect that has had an impossible time cracking the lineup is Berggren. He's consistently being beat by players who are better than him, or offer some veteran presence, or play defense better than him. He played most of the season in Detroit last year and Yzerman still decided that acquiring DeBrincat, Sprong, Compher, Fischer, Kostin and Kane was worthwhile because of some clear doubt in Berggren's game amongst other things. You think that Yzerman or Lalonde would have an issue playing Berggren had he done what he was supposed to do at the start of the season?

He just needs to be coddled and given chances he doesn't earn. Just like Athanasiou was all those years ago. Thanks MBH

I'm not sure it makes sense to reference Edvinsson, since Yzerman watched his wonderful defense shit the bad on nightly basis and saying this is fine

 

[norrisnick]

I'm not sure it makes sense to reference Edvinsson, since Yzerman watched his wonderful defense shit the bad on nightly basis and saying this is fine

And watched him be top 3-4 both of his training camps. He wasn't the undisputed #1 so he got sent down. If Mo doesn't exist, Ed would have made the team in '22.

 

[Steve Yzerlland]

Four point night. Hatty and an apple. What the hell are we doing with this kid?

 

[letsgowings9999]

Four point night. Hatty and an apple. What the hell are we doing with this kid?

Hes not a 2way selke type forward though. Why play a talented young player with upside over a 2 way 40 pt guy

 

[Killerjas]

Guy is too good for the AHL, not good enough as a top 6 NHL guy (yet). Berggren is not a bottom 6 guy. If I was him I would take my chances, not resign and try to find a NHL team where he can play top 6 minutes. He is not gonna get it here.

 

[heyfolks]

Hes not a 2way selke type forward though. Why play a talented young player with upside over a 2 way 40 pt guy

He is upping his trade value. That is what the Wings want.

If the Wings sign him, he'll have a roster spot in Detroit. That is what he wants.

 

[Winger98]

Guy is too good for the AHL, not good enough as a top 6 NHL guy (yet). Berggren is not a bottom 6 guy. If I was him I would take my chances, not resign and try to find a NHL team where he can play top 6 minutes. He is not gonna get it here.

I'm still hoping we can put together a team with a top9 and a bottom line that bangs. Berggren is a limited player despite the numbers he puts up. but I think he can also be a guy who could jump around several lines to provide a bit of skill if his linemates covered for the rest.

 

[lilidk]

Berggren will fine on the third line next season with Kasper and Fabbri, Veleno, Ras or Perron. End of the season should be
Berggren - Kasper- Mazur / Danielson

 

[Gniwder]

Berggren will fine on the third line next season with Kasper and Fabbri, Veleno, Ras or Perron. End of the season should be
Berggren - Kasper- Mazur / Danielson

I can see one of Mazur/Kasper/Danielson getting promoted before the end of next season, not 2.

 

[lilidk]

I can see one of Mazur/Kasper/Danielson getting promoted before the end of next season, not 2.

It's all depends how good they are

 

[Gniwder]

It's all depends how good they are

Actually depends on what Stevie does in free agency, they won't be brought up if there's no roster room. The team could always squeeze one rookie in like they did with Ed, but it's hard to sit a bunch of veterans.

I think Stevie will sign (or re-sign) at least a couple veteran wingers, and bring in a RHD to replace Ghost so that Holl sits. I doubt he starts the season with Mo, Petry, Holl on the right side unless he decides to put Chiarot on the right paired with Ed.

 

[letsgowings9999]

He is upping his trade value. That is what the Wings want.

Upping his trade value?? By playing in the ahl?? Wed get a later 2nd round pick than where we got him at this point or some other 22 year old kid who cant crank a lineup or another 2 way copp type forward

Hard pass . Rather play him a full season on the top 9 with some ppl time over the likes of a veleno. That's how you boost his trade value

 

[heyfolks]

Upping his trade value?? By playing in the ahl?? Wed get a later 2nd round pick than where we got him at this point or some other 22 year old kid who cant crank a lineup or another 2 way copp type forward

Hard pass . Rather play him a full season on the top 9 with some ppl time over the likes of a veleno. That's how you boost his trade value

He isn't playing in Detroit. No argument there.


He is in GR. No argument there.

He's leading the team.

If he were not, his value would go down.

Your scenario suggests a willingness on his, and the Wings, part to sign a deal. See OP.

 

[stillwater]

It's all depends how good they are

That's some pretty deep insight right there.