Staal in their early years, Getzlaf through the middle years, Bergeron in the later years.
Bergeron, Staal Or Getzlaf?
- Thread starter DitchMarner
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Bergeron for his career averages 26 goals/66 points per 82 games
Getzlaf for his career averages 21 goals/75 points per 82 games
Bergeron has the hardware and numbers to state the case of being one of the best defensive centers of all time. Getzlaf is somewhere around 10th in relation to his generation. IMO, that is a sizeable gap there as well as faceoffs, with Bergeron being one of the three best of his generation at the dot while Getzlaf is rather average.
Both are winners. Bergeron is one of 29 Triple Gold Club members and Getzlaf has a Cup win as well as a gold medal.
I think Bergeron's defensive game outweighs the 9 points a year career difference. He's just so damn consistent every year.
hamzarocks
Registered User
Getzlaf has been considerably better in the playoffs being one of the best performers of this generation with multiple dominant runs. Bergeron has been up and down come playoffs. Getzlaf has 120 in 125 playoff games good for near 79 point pace. Bergeron has 111 in 149 good for 61 point pace. Big gap there
Bergeron is hurt by his lack of production for an 9 year stretch from 2009-2017. His prime years of his career were underwhelming with 482 pts in 660 games working for a 60 point pace.
Getzlaf in the same time period had 635 points in 645 games working to be a 80 point player.
During their clear peak and extended prime years getzlaf was clearly better than Bergeron who was a 2C for large portions of that 9 year period.
Bergeron last 3 season have narrowed the gap a bit with Getzlaf having 2 55ish point years on a crappy ducks team but Getzlaf definately was the clear cut better player for majority of their careers
And again, you're strictly using points as your arguement, as well as segmenting their careers instead of looking at it from a whole. Getzlaf is a great player who's had some great seasons but Bergeron's overall game and the consistency at which he performed was just simply better.
KoozNetsOff 92
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From 07/08-17/18 (age 22-32) Bergeron scored 70pts exactly 0x. I don't care how good he is defensively, that's pathetic production for a guy who is supposedly a superstar 1C and 1 of the best of a generation. It's not hard to consistently be a 55pt player.
Gurglesons
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Bouboumaster
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Bergeron is basically Bob Gainey but less physical. He's the Gold Standard of his generation as far "200 ft player" goes.
So it's him.
Then Getzlaf, then Staal.
Staal's peack was really bright, but Getzlaf was better for a longer period of time.
So it's him.
Then Getzlaf, then Staal.
Staal's peack was really bright, but Getzlaf was better for a longer period of time.
Bergeron was deployed as a heavy matchup center in a defensive system. He's paced for 85 points per 82 games over the past 3 seasons since being deployed like an actual number 1 scoring center. Considering how unlikely it is he just became a way better offensive player at 32, he very likely could have scored more if he was put in that role all along.
Sidney the Kidney
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In fairness, he also gets to play with two wingers with legitimate 100 point ability. He didn't have that kind of offensive support on the wings prior to Marchand's breakout/Pastrnak arriving on the scene.
I do think HF has a tendency to overrate Bergeron a bit. And let me stress just like in the Matthews thread, "overrate" doesn't mean "he sucks". I just think HF makes Bergeron sound like he's doing what Datsyuk was doing (ie. winning Selke's while producing near 100 points) and that's the player who gets rated.
This is true, but at the same time, a lot of number 1 centers get to play with an elite winger (though not usually 2). And I think Marchand is in a similar boat, in that he wasn't given the same opportunities earlier in his career. I don't think Bergeron would be putting up huge totals earlier in his career, but I don't think it's ridiculous to think he could have had 10 or so more points in a number of years in a different offense, which would have looked better on paper, but I don't think he would have been any more effective.
I've never really got the feeling Bergeron gets rated near a Datsyuk level. I think he's comfortably in the Toews/Kopitar range, though with better longevity than Toews. But I think Getzlaf falls into that level as well, but with different strengths. I just think too many are obsessed with offensive production when players like Bergeron really do tilt the ice to an impressive degree.
Gurglesons
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tsujimoto74
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Staal's career numbers are virtually identical to Getzlaf's. Whichever one of the two you want to argue has had the better career, there's definitely not a large gap there.
BigBadBruins7708
Registered User
he was though. both lines were played like #1 lines, just match up focused.
Bergeron was always out against the other team's top line and took all the defensive assignments. Krejci's line was put out in the offensive situations to maximize their strengths.
Like mentioned above, people point to Bergeron's point totals under Julien but fail to mention he had a 60% d zone start over that time.
They also fail to mention that when given offensive starts, he scores more. He has done it before and after Julien.
Pre Julien he scored 143 points in 156 games, 0.92 ppg over 2 seasons. And he was only 20 and 21 in those seasons
Post Julien he has scored 198 points in 190 games, 1.04ppg over 3 seasons.
Combined he has 341 points in 346 games away from Julien, 0.99 ppg
HFpapi
Registered User
If I could have any one the 3 at their absolute best for an entire season...I have to take Getzlaf...although it's very close... but he was a huge/physical centre in a conference where you really needed that, was one of the best play makers in the world, had silky hands, and was quite good defensively too. He finished 2nd (maybe 3rd) in Hart voting one year...
For career (which I assume this poll is asking about), it's Bergy...just more sustainability and he's the only one of the 3 I see making the HHOF
For career (which I assume this poll is asking about), it's Bergy...just more sustainability and he's the only one of the 3 I see making the HHOF
Gurglesons
Registered User
Neat. Krejci played more 5v5 per game minutes than Bergeron in 2011, 2013 and 2019 in the playoffs.
Krejci played more all situations per game minutes than Bergeron in 2011 and 2013.
This is not even getting into Savard, which I will admit is kind of a shitty comparison considering that was when Bergie was dealing with his massive concussion issues.
Point being, this never happened with Getzlaf following his first year. And even following his first year Getzlaf was top dog by the time the WCF rolled around.
Gurglesons
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I'm curious how exactly has Bergeron sustained more?
Bergeron put up a 70 pt season in 06-07 then didn't get back to that pace until 17-18.
From 06-07 to 17-18 Getzlaf paced at 70 points nine times and was a Hart finalist on one of the best teams in the West.
Does the defensive work of Bergeron really justify such a statement? Getzlaf has only seen a drop in his production the past two seasons when the Ducks fell off a cliff and in 11-12 when they were in a transition year. Bergeron has been a PPG player once in his career. Getzlaf has been one multiple times. Getzlaf has also actually done it over a full season or close to a full season (77 games) where as Bergeron's one PPG season was due to injury.
And I think Getzlaf is a good defensive player. The Selke is a popularity contest.
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Two of those seasons were interrupted by two concussions.
Also, again, you're looking at just points. You say it's not hard to be a 55 point center, but how hard is it to be considered the best defensive center of his generation? Considering that there's really only two players that have a legit claim to that title in the time span we're talking about, I'd say very. Bergeron's consistency, longevity, and elite defensive game are what puts him over the top against Getzlaf.
Gurglesons
Registered User
Getzlaf was consistently a better player his entire career until the last two seasons when Bergeron got two 80-100 pt wingers. This isn't even to get into the fact that Getzlaf played above Bergeron in both Olympics in his natural position. Weird how the "best defensive center of his generation" wasn't used as a top six center in any of his international competitions eh?
The point of the game is to win games, not face-offs and penalty kills.
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Which you typically do by outscoring the other team, which Bergeron did by a greater margin, not just scoring points.
Sidney the Kidney
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I think this goes back to the discussion of at what gap of offense production, does defensive superiority no longer close that gap. Even with Bergeron's "bump" to closer to 65 points rather than 55 point type player, is that enough to overcome Getzlaf's near 90 point production along with good defense of his own?
I've seen some posts, particularly among those who are fanatical about analytics, ranking Bergeron just after the big 3 (McDavid, Mackinnon, Crosby). Not all, and not the majority, but enough sprinklings of posts like that where he seems to be put on a tier that you'd have to produce like Datsyuk (to go along with his defense) to justify. I've also seen some further who'd have Bergeron ahead of the likes of Malkin, Matthews, etc. among centers. Which is still pushing it considering the general gap in production.
Gurglesons
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Player Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick
Check out Getzlaf versus Bergeron in Bergy's "back to back Selke" years.
Getzlaf's GF% was higher than Bergeron's from 13-14 through 14-15.
So, Getzlaf was the better "defensive player" by your estimation then, right? Because he scored more goals and let up less goals at a better margin than Bergeron right?
NHL Stats
2009-10 to 2017-18 - Getzlaf - 56.3%
2009-10 to 2017-18 - Bergeron - 59.4%
Not really seeing this huge difference between Bergeron and Getzlaf here. Aside from you know when I look at actual production and see that Getzlaf has around 100 more points in 30 less games...
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Paul4587
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Staal has played in significantly more games but Getzlaf’s PPG is a decent amount higher (he averages 76 points per 82 games compared to Staal who avarrages 67) and his defensive game is far superior to Staals. Getzlaf was much better over his prime and at his peak than Staal. Staal was more NHL ready than Getzy but that’s the only advantage I would give him.
Career wise Bergeron is in the competition because he aged better, peak wise he's clearly 3rd...I have to vote Getzlaf
tarheelhockey
Offside Review Specialist
This is exactly what I was thinking.
For entire career it's close but I think you have to take Getzlaf over Bergeron. Getzlaf has been the best offensive player of the group, worth about 10 more points than Bergeron (and 6 more than Staal) per 82 games. That gap gets really big in the playoffs, where Getzlaf has scored at a 79 point pace to Bergeron's 61.
His defensive game isn't 4x-Selke level, but he's still consistently among the better two-way centers. It's ultimately just a matter of opinion, but I wouldn't give up 10 points a season (and more in the playoffs) for a guy to be just a little better defensively.
