Benson vs. Lavoie: Who steps up?

[Drivesaitl]

Not to poke holes in an amazing accomplishment for Benson's eye-popping bantam scoring record, but, the record he broke was held by Ty Rattie. Rattie's career path was high second round NHL pick, solid AHL point production, cup of coffee NHL stints and ticket to Europe hockey career due to deficiencies in skating. Obscene production in bantam does not create certainty as an adult professional hockey player. Benson's smarts, character and grit game (where Rattie may have lacked a bit in grit) will be vital to finding a support role in the NHL. Cheering for the kid but pragmatic.

In a word, thanks, and I actually think Rattie is the better player. Which should be sobering for any go hard Benson backers.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Huh? Who said that?
I can guarantee you from experience that as you say, those parents would have been absolutely convinced their kid was as good/better.

Yep. The experience of having attended almost any Canadian fevered hockey rink in which every parents kids should be getting better toi, better minutes better linemates and half the time this being shrieked from the stands. Yeah, in that furor we're being told to believe that all the kids parents were saying, yeah I want that Benson kid instead , please come home with me..

I should say especially mothers. Dynamic runs real strong with moms. Their kid is always the best, and a saint.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Thx. I like you too.

Such a bully!

 

[Akrapovince]

Sorry you don’t know what your talking about. Benson was on another level than Steel. Jost I don’t even remember playing minor hockey in Edmonton. I know he’s from around here but he was the same age he wasn’t breaking records like Benson was or I would have heard about him. Quenville also literally produced at half the rate Benson did. I remember Quennville had like 70 some points in AAA the one year and Benson had over 140.

I’ve known multiple people that have played against both tell me Sam was on another level.

If Steel played on that stacked and very well run SSAC squad I would think he’d do the same.

I’d wager anyone saying that Benson was on another level just point watched his record breaking season from box scores, Steel had just as much if not more skill and looked much more impressive in person.

 

[nabob]

The problem is theres very little change in the player and what he needs to do to be an NHL player. Subpar skating, terrible putting the puck in the net, even at AHL level, plays a small game, doesn't like contact. Nothing he's doing translates to doing well in the NHL. He's shown one period that even approximates being up to playing here. Mostly he's looked like nothing here.

For a player like him, that is supposed to just get by on talent, he should've shown that already here. Really the only thing he brins here is some passing, and we have that in spades. We could use some others with some finish.

Sounds very similar to what you were saying about Yamamoto prior to last season...

 

[MessierII]

I’d wager anyone saying that Benson was on another level just point watched his record breaking season from box scores, Steel had just as much if not more skill and looked much more impressive in person.

I don’t know why people keep saying this. What separated Benson was the fact he was physical, great defensively, gritty it wasn’t just the points. The only reason I even know any of this is because my friend was his coach at the time and made me come watch him because he was so blown away. So yeah it definitely was not just the points and that’s in literally every scouting report out there.

I think the biggest thing with Benson then was his size. He was 5’11” 180 lbs his last year of bantam and today is listed at 6’ 194 lbs so he was a monster at that age. There was nobody on Bensons level. He might be the most dominant minor hockey player in Edmonton history. He was described as phenom at the time by everyone. You don’t hear that about Steel.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

In a word, thanks, and I actually think Rattie is the better player. Which should be sobering for any go hard Benson backers.

I think it helpful to be pragmatic about prospects generally going back decades of seeing 'can't miss' miss and 'no chance' players have long careers. I think its too early to bury Benson as a minor leaguer but it will be his intangibles which will be critical for potentially making it as a prospective bottom six forward - grit, determination, hockey smarts - a character, hard working player who is tireless and dogged on each and every shift. I think this separates Benson a bit potentially from Rattie.

The Oil have a lot of finesse type elite players but still can use strong character players just like the 80 Dynasty Teams.

Will keep some hope for this player but pragmatic about his chances to make an NHL roster.

 

[McDoused]

I know I'm in the minority with the way I think but the fact that Lavoie needs to work on his skating can actually be a good thing.

Just imagine how good he can be if he puts it all together.

 

[nabob]

I know I'm in the minority with the way I think but the fact that Lavoie needs to work on his skating can actually be a good thing.

Just imagine how good he can be if he puts it all together.

That is a weakness that can be improved upon. We’ve seen lots of players with skating as a weakness improve it enough to be able to become very good NHL players.

 

[Lacaar]

Haven't even seen either play. I voted neither.

Having paid attention to the minors/drafts and these boards over the years. And just going on gut instincts.

Benson had an AHL regression last year which is a 5 alarm warning imo. Once you stop improving at the AHL level the odds of making an impact at the NHL aren't good imo.
Lavoie I don't feel has even a remote chance of making the team. He was a minor player on team canada at wjc last year. I just don't see him making the team unless he was a major player in that tournament or absolutely crushing SE-1. He's still in that box of chocolate stage.

I guess I don't think we'll see either of them in the NHL until they "pop".. Benson appearted to be inflating nicely as of a year ago but stopped.
Lavoie is inflating but not at any noteable rate that would suggest he plays in the NHL as a 20 year old.

Would it be awesome if they pulled a bear and popped during training camp.. Hell yah!
Am I going to bet my mortgage on it.. hell no!

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sounds very similar to what you were saying about Yamamoto prior to last season...

OK, but you wouldn't notice except your treatise on such is established in a comment you just made in Pulju thread. Thats your narrative, that fans are hard on prospects and it sucks, and its their darkside and such nonsense. Really any Oilers fan that went through the 90's has some of this in them. Its learned rather than featured. It got to the point of me just assuming our prospects fail. With that said I knew we had a ringer in Drai from the start, but other than #1 picks theres been few I felt that way about initially. Arnott and Smyth. It goes almost that far back. I knew they were rock solid picks. There hasn't been many.

Its your narrative that fans being down on Oilers prospects says something about them, that they are unpleasant. My reflection is that fans that tend to be skeptical of the oilers prospects tend to be that way due to the oilers track record.

Which is the more reasonable view? Ascribing negative comments to others or deducing it to be a fault of the org in carefully picking and developing the right players?

ftr I am high on Broberg, Bear, Bouchard, Holloway. Nothing but positives to say about any of those, you can check the track record on that.

 

[Barrsy]

I don’t know why people keep saying this. What separated Benson was the fact he was physical, great defensively, gritty it wasn’t just the points. The only reason I even know any of this is because my friend was his coach at the time and made me come watch him because he was so blown away. So yeah it definitely was not just the points and that’s in literally every scouting report out there.

I think the biggest thing with Benson then was his size. He was 5’11” 180 lbs his last year of bantam and today is listed at 6’ 194 lbs so he was a monster at that age. There was nobody on Bensons level. He might be the most dominant minor hockey player in Edmonton history. He was described as phenom at the time by everyone. You don’t hear that about Steel.

This is mostly true except for the bolded. The bolded is laughable.

 

[nabob]

OK, but you wouldn't notice except your treatise on such is established in a comment you just made in Pulju thread. Thats your narrative, that fans are hard on prospects and it sucks, and its their darkside and such nonsense. Really any Oilers fan that went through the 90's has some of this in them. Its learned rather than featured. It got to the point of me just assuming our prospects fail. With that said I knew we had a ringer in Drai from the start, but other than #1 picks theres been few I felt that way about initially. Arnott and Smyth. It goes almost that far back. I knew they were rock solid picks. There hasn't been many.

Its your narrative that fans being down on Oilers prospects says something about them, that they are unpleasant. My reflection is that fans that tend to be skeptical of the oilers prospects tend to be that way due to the oilers track record.

Which is the more reasonable view? Ascribing negative comments to others or deducing it to be a fault of the org in carefully picking and developing the right players?

ftr I am high on Broberg, Bear, Bouchard, Holloway. Nothing but positives to say about any of those, you can check the track record on that.

I was simply pointing out how you had the same criticisms of another player and you were very wrong about that player. No narratives. May just be you don’t like certain players who don’t fit the mold of what you look for in a player.

 

[Drivesaitl]

I was simply pointing out how you had the same criticisms of another player and you were very wrong about that player. No narratives. May just be you don’t like certain players who don’t fit the mold of what you look for in a player.

In this thread, yes, but you said something different in the Pulju thread, not at me, but in general, and I just wanted to mention that as well feeling a little off. In anycase I made my point. I give Oilers fans a lot of scope, due to what they've suffered.

With respect to Yama hopefully success continues.

 

[snipes]

I’m not even a Benson fan, but the notion that if you’re not in the NHL by 21 or younger, then you’ll never make it is stupid.

Some players take longer than others especially in Bensons situation where he missed substantial development time early on.

He really needs to improve his skating though, hopefully he’s taking his off-season training seriously. Right now he’s Mr. Cement Boots.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

I’m not even a Benson fan, but the notion that if you’re not in the NHL by 21 or younger, then you’ll never make it is stupid.

Some players take longer than others especially in Bensons situation where he missed substantial development time early on.

He really needs to improve his skating though, hopefully he’s taking his off-season training seriously. Right now he’s Mr. Cement Boots.

I wonder if staying in Edmonton and working on skating woulda been better than playing in Europe

 

[MessierII]

I wonder if staying in Edmonton and working on skating woulda been better than playing in Europe

I mean he just had what? March till a couple of weeks ago off. I’d like to think he was working on it that entire time.

 

[snipes]

I mean he just had what? March till a couple of weeks ago off. I’d like to think he was working on it that entire time.

He damn well better be. He should have the inner drive to work on his game to be an NHLer.

 

[Bryanbryoil]

He damn well better be. He should have the inner drive to work on his game to be an NHLer.

It could be the difference between him being an Anton Lander vs. a top 9 NHL winger.

 

[McDNicks17]

Not to poke holes in an amazing accomplishment for Benson's eye-popping bantam scoring record, but, the record he broke was held by Ty Rattie. Rattie's career path was high second round NHL pick, solid AHL point production, cup of coffee NHL stints and ticket to Europe hockey career due to deficiencies in skating. Obscene production in bantam does not create certainty as an adult professional hockey player. Benson's smarts, character and grit game (where Rattie may have lacked a bit in grit) will be vital to finding a support role in the NHL. Cheering for the kid but pragmatic.

Yup. Same thing goes for over here in Ontario.

You have to scroll by Dante Salituro, Mitchell Smith, Brandon Pirri, Ryan McDonough(not the defenseman), Josh Ho-Sang, Sam Gagner, Dylan Strome, Ethan Werek and Reilly Smith before you get to McDavid, Tavares, Hughes and Shane Wright.

Scoring at that level definitely doesn't guarantee NHL success.

 

[nuck]

Perhaps our two most promising and NHL ready prospects, and as it currently stands there is a glaring hole in our top-9 that one of these youngsters should be looking to fill.

Who is more likely to step up and force themselves into a permanent spot on the Oilers roster next season?

I think Benson gets the longer look which he should. Counting the Swiss league he has over 170 pro games and just turned 23. He is a grown ass man and the AHL has nothing left to teach him. This club gave 27 games to Turris and 33 to Haas so they can probably find the room to give him a real shot and if he can't find a groove then they aren't the prospect thin team of a few years ago. so... I like Lavoie more but he could probably get a lot more from a full AHL season than TB. Holloway will likely lap him unless he shits the bed in camp and of course McLeod.

Honestly with 7 NHL games and 10 minutes a night we don't really know him do we? 70 minutes vs the 360 they gave to Ennis or the 600 they gave to Haas. He is getting closer to make it or break it but they need to give him the same chance to succeed they have given their FAs at least.

 

[ImmuneEH]

I don't see Benson ever really panning out. Just doesn't seem to have it.

Still too early for Lavoie, no knock against him though. Still a player there I think.

I honestly feel that if Benson was given the same opportunity as Kahun, he would have had a better season.

 

[MoneyGuy]

Benson will be on the opening-day roster next season.

 

[voxel]

Next season? It has to be Benson because he is waiver eligible.

Lavoie is super-skilled but raw. His decision making sometimes is baffling. He's not ready for the NHL.

 

[Barrsy]

Benson cannot skate at an NHL level