Post-Game Talk: Below average goaltending + below average finishing + below average defense = ugly losses

[MessierThanThou]

Sure was--because he never took excuses from anybody. Play well or sit on the bench.

Not to mention the fact that the team he put together won another Cup without Gretzky, and made it to the Conference Finals the year after that. Then he lost Messier too....and made it to the Conference Finals the year after that. One of the most brilliant minds in the history of the game; a fact even more obvious with every one of his successors being a failure in some way.

 

[MoontoScott]

Not to mention the fact that the team he put together won another Cup without Gretzky, and made it to the Conference Finals the year after that. Then he lost Messier too....and made it to the Conference Finals the year after that. One of the most brilliant minds in the history of the game; a fact even more obvious with every one of his successors being a failure in some way.

I met him one time. TBH he was certainly not nice but most players know that nice doesn't win cups. Good coaches tell you what you must hear, not what you want to hear. He wasn't interested in being anybody's buddy and wasn't concerned with hurting anyone's feelings. His battles with Coffey and Messier were legendary but he turned them into great hockey players.

 

[TKB21]

Problem is he's not even making plays on the PP anymore.

And yet he’s one the 1st PP every time…try and make that make sense.

 

[MessierThanThou]

I met him one time. TBH he was certainly not nice but most players know that nice doesn't win cups. Good coaches tell you what you must hear, not what you want to hear. He wasn't interested in being anybody's buddy and wasn't concerned with hurting anyone's feelings. His battles with Coffey and Messier were legendary but he turned them into great hockey players.

Haha I did too! At the Carnival of Champions. I was about 11, so he was really nice to me. And patient. He spent like five minutes listening to me tell him that Peter Sarno was going to be the next NHL superstar because he led the OHL in points... It's no surprise I never became a scout.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

since the 4 Nation break ended, Bouchard is tied for a team worst -9 in ES goal differential

Ekholm is missed. Bouchard's weaknesses are showing just before contract time.

 

[McDNicks17]

Ekholm is missed. Bouchard's weaknesses are showing just before contract time.

-6 of that was with Ekholm.

 

[ThePhoenixx]

-6 of that was with Ekholm.

A 60% Ekholm.

 

[FunkyChicken]

View attachment 992041
"As a goalie I know the value of precision. Every move, every save, it's all about being at the top of my game."

Is there video to go with this pic? Cause that's just too good.

 

[TopShelfGloveSide]

Well, I mean, better than being 75th in goals saved above expected for one. He's not just playing average or poor, he is f***ING AWFUL this season. Big gap between being mediocre and absolutely unplayable, with the movement of a walrus in net.

Seriously. Skinner fans love to down play how bad he’s been.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Seriously. Skinner fans love to down play how bad he’s been.

They're at the point where they just outright ignore the statistics, unless it's a short, isolated streak of some kind, like they were doing right after his only good seven-game stretch all season. Or they use their own eye test, where it's always Bouchard's fault, every single time. They just keep moving goalposts and lowering the bar, despite seeing Skinner get outperformed by the opposing goaltender on a near-nightly basis.

As I said before, these people are the hockey equivalent of flat earthers with their stubborn rejection of the obvious.

 

[bucks_oil]

Is there video to go with this pic? Cause that's just too good.

It would be in the highlights for the last game.

Skinner was terrible on the first two goals, terrible...

but that was the third goal and looks far worse than it actually was. Tage Thompson, who has the reach of a pterodactyl and silky soft mitts, cut hard across the net from glove to stick side... Skinner tracked him pretty well, lunged hard (and missed) for a poke check... he didn't let go to change grip (to slide hand up to the butt-end of the stick)... and so Thompson eluded him and tucked it far side... while still mid-poke (and heading toward his belly), Skinner extended his leg in desperation, which took him further off balance into the ice...

Other than not properly executing the poke, I have very little criticism of that attempt. Full sell poke checks are risky, they can put you on your stomach sometimes... and once you miss, the puck is gonna get tucked far side, 9 times out of 10.... you can't simultaneously slide across fast if your are also lunging hard forward.

It did look funny though!,... but anybody who that was a particularly weak goal, probably hasn't played the position much/at all.

 

[Heavy Dee]

I think this is right... our team is right about where we should have expected it to be IF the few key additions we made this summer DIDN'T work out. And clearly they haven't.

I hate to already be looking to next year, but if something doesn't change, we haven't added the offense we needed to overcome that 2-1 lock-down style loss that we painfully experienced in SCF game 7.

I'm obviously simplifying here, but there were two ways to have won that cup last year:
1) Acquire a current Vezina level goalie, then we might have beat the aging Vezina level goalie in net.
2) Acquire more offensive depth so that that 2-1 loss becomes a 3-2 win.

Now obviously we didn't do #1, we invested heavily (given losses of Broberg & Holloway) in #2. And those investments, coupled with our aging core HAVE NOT DELIVERED.

I think that is the frustration with goalie-defenders like myself (yes, he absolutely lost us last game)... it's that WE EXPECTED SKINNER TO BE MEDIOCRE AT BEST. Why are we solely railing on the guy who's playing EXACTLY LIKE WE ALL EXPECTED and where we DIDN'T INVEST TO IMPROVE OUR TEAM.

Meanwhile, the INVESTMENTS we made (J. Skinner, Arvidsson) have been underutilized or are UNDERPERFORMING.

It feels to me like the absolute definition of insanity... like seriously, what did all of you goalie-blamers expect?

I would add that this coach hasn't got the best out of those acquisitions and has no answers how to unlock them. He has been loading up McDrai with more regularity. This feels lien the team from 2/3 years ago.

The goal was to improve the game 7 roster without f***ing up chemistry, growth etc. Best in Class Jeff failed miserably.

 

[Drivesaitl]

This thread is typical of Skinner Stans views.

Oilers should've won the game 2-1 or at worst end up in OT on even basis of two goals scored. Buffalo didn't get a lot and Skinner gave up two questionable goals.

But invariably, always, the talk is why not score more goals. Why not fill the net. Not every game is won that way and around the league theres teams that get a lot of shutouts, a lot of 1 or 2 GA games. Its rare here..

 

[Heavy Dee]

This thread is typical of Skinner Stans views.

Oilers should've won the game 2-1 or at worst end up in OT on even basis of two goals scored. Buffalo didn't get a lot and Skinner gave up two questionable goals.

But invariably, always, the talk is why not score more goals. Why not fill the net. Not every game is won that way and around the league theres teams that get a lot of shutouts, a lot of 1 or 2 GA games. Its rare here..

U cant deny many Oiler forwards are seriously underperforming.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Remember @oilerbear ... I hope he's ok, haven't seen him in a while... but he used to talk about "open" vs "closed" shot theory, which if you understood his rants was essentially a shot that comes when a goalie is still on the move, vs one that comes when the goalie is square and already set... night and day different outcomes. That's the type of model we need.

I remember some of that. But a model is only as good as its conception and theres already bias contained in this construct. For instance focus by definition being of goalie in movement it doesn't factor in DIFFERENTIAL in speed of goalies getting to their sets and tracking puck and being ready and square to shot. It would nullify that variable when its likely salient.

The better measure simply reduces variables and isolates on the key being "plays that require move across by goalie" and how fast, how far etc. This way the danger of the shot and changed angle is isolated as a salient factor.

 

[K1984]

U cant deny many Oiler forwards are seriously underperforming.

Careful.

Accurately pointing out other major problems with our game might get you accused of being a Skinner "supporter" even if you don't mention goaltending at all in your criticism. Has to 100% be Skinner's fault for everything, including the inability to score (laughably suggested in this very thread).

 

[Drivesaitl]

U cant deny many Oiler forwards are seriously underperforming.

Sure, for the most part. But in the case of thsoe that could be expected to be more, specifically McD, Hyman, Nuge how much of it is exhaustion from playing around 300games last 3 seasons and being the ones carrying clubs?

Theres several players on this roster I don't even expect to score.

Careful.

Accurately pointing out other major problems with our game might get you accused of being a Skinner "supporter" even if you don't mention goaltending at all in your criticism. Has to 100% be Skinner's fault for everything, including the inability to score (laughably suggested in this very thread).

The players are actually stating, in words, in interviews that the goaltending is deflating, that bad goals are deflating, that chasing results is deflating and that playing from behind is harder. It always is.

To which you'd respond those players are ass, its an excuse blah blah blah. I'll listen to the players over your drivel.

 

[K1984]

Sure, for the most part. But in the case of thsoe that could be expected to be more, specifically McD, Hyman, Nuge how much of it is exhaustion from playing around 300games last 3 seasons and being the ones carrying clubs?

Theres several players on this roster I don't even expect to score.


The players are actually stating, in words, in interviews that the goaltending is deflating, that bad goals are deflating, that chasing results is deflating and that playing from behind is harder. It always is.

To which you'd respond those players are ass, its an excuse blah blah blah. I'll listen to the players over your drivel.

Sorry for accurately recognizing that there are major finishing issues up front. Sorry that offends you because Skinner somehow.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Sorry for accurately recognizing that there are major finishing issues up front. Sorry that offends you because Skinner somehow.

Well keep blaming the stars of this team for having the shittiest goaltending of any playoff bound club. I'm sure thats going to be enlightening.

Much would be solved with improvement in goaltending. It is possible in NHL to win or tie a game in which you score 2 in regulation. Unless your goalie gives away a couple.

 

[K1984]

Well keep blaming the stars of this team for having the shittiest goaltending of any playoff bound club. I'm sure thats going to be enlightening.

Much would be solved with improvement in goaltending. It is possible in NHL to win or tie a game in which you score 2 in regulation. Unless your goalie gives away a couple.

Yep. Better goaltending would be better.

Still wouldn’t win shit with the way we’re playing up front, but better goaltending is part of the puzzle.

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep. Better goaltending would be better.

Still wouldn’t win shit with the way we’re playing up front, but better goaltending is part of the puzzle.

Sure. But this is the PGT for a game in which the Oilers gave up 3 goals and two of them were weak goals let in by a goalie who lets a lot of soft goals in.

Thats the context, this thread, this game.

For the posters defending Skinner in this game they want to move the goalposts to "just score more goals" instead of looking at the salient variable in the game, and biggest reason why we lost.

That doesn't mean everything is on goaltending but it WAS the difference in this outcome.

 

[K1984]

Sure. But this is the PGT for a game in which the Oilers gave up 3 goals and two of them were weak goals let in by a goalie who lets a lot of soft goals in.

Thats the context, this thread, this game.

For the posters defending Skinner in this game they want to move the goalposts to "just score more goals" instead of looking at the salient variable in the game, and biggest reason why we lost.

That doesn't mean everything is on goaltending but it WAS the difference in this outcome.

Yep, this thread, this game.

Tell me the play up and down the ice was sufficient on the 2nd and 3rd goals. Not talking about the goalie. Watch the play on those and tell me that’s acceptable.

Watch the bevy of empty nets missed and tell me that’s acceptable. A slight amount of focus here could have been the difference too.

There are zero posters defending Skinner. Zero. That’s a projection in response for anyone that dare critique the atrocious play in front of him.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Yep, this thread, this game.

Tell me the play up and down the ice was sufficient on the 2nd and 3rd goals. Not talking about the goalie. Watch the play on those and tell me that’s acceptable.

Watch the bevy of empty nets missed and tell me that’s acceptable. A slight amount of focus here could have been the difference too.

There are zero posters defending Skinner. Zero. That’s a projection in response for anyone that dare critique the atrocious play in front of him.

So deflecting blame from Skinner with comments like these isn't defending Skinner?

He played poorly and the team played poorly in front of him. Both of those statements are true. Why are you trying so hard to convince us that Skinner is the victim here?

 

[Drivesaitl]

Yep, this thread, this game.

Tell me the play up and down the ice was sufficient on the 2nd and 3rd goals. Not talking about the goalie. Watch the play on those and tell me that’s acceptable.

Watch the bevy of empty nets missed and tell me that’s acceptable. A slight amount of focus here could have been the difference too.

There are zero posters defending Skinner. Zero. That’s a projection in response for anyone that dare critique the atrocious play in front of him.

I don't believe you.

You must have some posters on ignore.

Whats interesting, again this season is how quickly fans will piss all over McD, Hyman. Booch etc and while defending the primary weakness of this club.

As to the other points in the sport of hockey open ice occurs in moments. Its a nature of the fastest game that things can get exploited. No club gives up zero scoring chances. On the whole the Oilers outplayed Buffalo by considerable margin but they had to beat Buffalo AND their own goaltending which I was being tongue in cheek about it GDT.

So that mockingly the Score was Oilers 2 Skinner 2 Buffalo 1. This perhaps hinting that Skinner helps opponent clubs who are happy enough to be facing him.

We're speaking about a game where an opponent bench was laughing about how weak ass Skinner was again.

 

[MessierThanThou]

Yep. Better goaltending would be better.

Still wouldn’t win shit with the way we’re playing up front, but better goaltending is part of the puzzle.

Actually, as I pointed out yesterday to someone else who shared this opinion, two of those goals would be laughed off as routine saves by a competent netminder. Mistakes by the team allowed those opportunities to happen, yes, but the shots that came from those opportunities should and likely would have been stopped by 95% of NHL goalies. Take those two away and we win.

You're deflecting blame from Skinner here, then denying what is patently obvious to anyone what it is you're actually trying to do: defend Skinner.