Bears and NFL Talk Thread LIV: Khalil Mack's a Bear!

[Kaners Bald Spot]

More than half of those guys were bargain free agents just brought in to back up. Cade was a terrible pick. Also Culpepper went before Cade, Minnesota traded up to get him after the Bears traded down. Grossman got drafted in a bad QB draft, the bad part about Grossman is that they wasted the pick they got in that draft on Michael Haynes. That has to be one of the worst Bears picks of all time.

They traded the 7th OA for 12 OA+. 7 OA became Champ Bailey, 11 OA became Culpepper. I honestly think they wanted Culpepper and got screwed by Minne. Both those guys, if they stayed put at 7 would have been infinitely better than McNown.
1999 NFL Draft - Wikipedia

 

[Illinihockey]

They traded the 7th OA for 12 OA+. 7 OA became Champ Bailey, 11 OA became Culpepper. I honestly think they wanted Culpepper and got screwed by Minne. Both those guys, if they stayed put at 7 would have been infinitely better than McNown.
1999 NFL Draft - Wikipedia

Everyone from 7 to 17 were way better the McNown. I agree they wanted Culpepper, had no clue Washington was going to give up a ton for Brad Johnson.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

IMO it has to be McNown

That was the highest Bears had selected QB since Jimmy Mac and he was supposed to be the face of franchise

He was god awful and out after 2 years and no one on team , in management or media liked him

He lost roster spot to Danny Wuerrfel who Bears felt would bring more to team as a #3 then McCown

That game vs 49ers when Bears never passed midfield with McNown at QB has to rank up there with most pathetic QB performances I have ever seen in NFL let along Bears history

It's up there, but Curtis Enis says hold my beer for worst pick of all time.

I cant put a guy like Enis up there because of all the injuries

He tore his ACL as rookie , Had issues with his legs/knee/feet his only full season but played thru it and then was diagnosed with degenerative knee condition which ended his professional career during 3rd season (This was discovered after yet another injury to his left knee

 

[piteus]

Bad first round picks since 1980 for the Bears.

* Brad Muster (he was a fullback!!!)
* Stan Thomas (he moved like he had a truck up his butt)
* Alonzo Spellman (he's not smarter than a 5th grader)
* John Thierry (he was Shea McClellin before Shea McClellin)
* Rashaan Salaam (he loved pot more than football)
* Curtis Enis (another PSU RB bust)
* Cade McNown (red flag: used handicapped parking at UCLA)
* David Terrell (a poor man's Braylan Edwards)
* Marc Colombo (played a bit for the Cowboys)
* Michael Haynes (used as an orange cone on the field)
* Cedric Benson (a tad better than Curtis Enis)
* Chris Williams (in a draft filled with great OL, the Bears pick the one dud)
* Gabe Carimi (his legs were the size of a ballerina)
* Shea McClellin (he was worse than John Thierry)
* Kevin White (I still don't know what he is ... after 3 years)

Rex Grossman still played well enough to get to the Super Bowl. So he's not a bust. He wasn't good, but wasn't a bust either.

 

[piteus]

I cant put a guy like Enis up there because of all the injuries

He tore his ACL as rookie , Had issues with his legs/knee/feet his only full season but played thru it and then was diagnosed with degenerative knee condition which ended his professional career during 3rd season (This was discovered after yet another injury to his left knee

Didn't Enis hurt his knee slipping in the showers? I have far more sympathy for Kevin White who works hard but had tough luck. Curtis Enis' passion for football was always questioned. At least Cedric Benson ran hard when he got on the field ... even when his practice habits were questioned.

 

[MurrayBannerman]

Chris Williams eventually played ok though, didn't he?

I still think Curtis Enis is easily the worst. He was a top 5 pick IIRC, and didn't ever really play or impact anything in any way.

He played one full year with the Rams. That's his career highlight.

 

[ChiHawks10]

IMO it has to be McNown

That was the highest Bears had selected QB since Jimmy Mac and he was supposed to be the face of franchise

He was god awful and out after 2 years and no one on team , in management or media liked him

He lost roster spot to Danny Wuerrfel who Bears felt would bring more to team as a #3 then McCown

That game vs 49ers when Bears never passed midfield with McNown at QB has to rank up there with most pathetic QB performances I have ever seen in NFL let along Bears history



I cant put a guy like Enis up there because of all the injuries

He tore his ACL as rookie , Had issues with his legs/knee/feet his only full season but played thru it and then was diagnosed with degenerative knee condition which ended his professional career during 3rd season (This was discovered after yet another injury to his left knee

He held out for a bigger contract, first. Then he tore his ACL 9 games in, and showed very little to nothing before then. He tried to come back with the Browns a year later, and was not successful, and was out of the league by 2000. Less than two years after being taken as the consensus 5th overall pick. He was picked before Fred Taylor and Randy Moss. The Bears drafted Olin Kreutz after him in the 3rd round...

He was a massive bust for the Bears, and the general consensus is that he's the worst pick in Bears history. Don't get me wrong, McNown is top 3 worst. I just think Enis was a terrible, terrible bust, considering he was pegged as the consensus guy at 5th OA. Hell, Paterno even called him a "con man" when asked about his football ability.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Bad first round picks since 1980 for the Bears.

* Brad Muster (he was a fullback!!!)
* Stan Thomas (he moved like he had a truck up his butt)
* Alonzo Spellman (he's not smarter than a 5th grader)
* John Thierry (he was Shea McClellin before Shea McClellin)
* Rashaan Salaam (he loved pot more than football)
* Curtis Enis (another PSU RB bust)
* Cade McNown (red flag: used handicapped parking at UCLA)
* David Terrell (a poor man's Braylan Edwards)
* Marc Colombo (played a bit for the Cowboys)
* Michael Haynes (used as an orange cone on the field)
* Cedric Benson (a tad better than Curtis Enis)
* Chris Williams (in a draft filled with great OL, the Bears pick the one dud)
* Gabe Carimi (his legs were the size of a ballerina)
* Shea McClellin (he was worse than John Thierry)
* Kevin White (I still don't know what he is ... after 3 years)

Rex Grossman still played well enough to get to the Super Bowl. So he's not a bust. He wasn't good, but wasn't a bust either.

Rex Grossman was absolutely a bust

His final NFL career was

10 years
10,232 yds
55.2 % Comp
56 TD's
60 INT's

Grossman was a primary starter for 2 seasons in his NFL career. He is absolutely a bust any QB drafted in 1st round who is only a starter for 2 years in NFL is 100% a bust

Do you consider Kyle Boller a bust? If so then Rex who had career very similar to him overall is pretty comparable

Also Spellman doesn't belong on list he had solid years as DE for Bears before his mental health started to deteriorate and ultimately lead to the hostage situation and end of his career with Bears

He has been in and out of mental health facilities multiple times

I believe he has been diagnosed as bi-polar

 

[AmericanDream]

I wouldn't call Grossman a bust....

10 year players who pass for over 10,000 yards are not a bust...he wasn't as good as originally hoped, but a bust? no chance.

 

[ChiHawks10]

I wouldn't call Grossman a bust....

I would.

He didn't get the Bears to a SB. Their dominating elite D did.

He's not a true bust in the sense that he hung around in the league a lot longer than most... but he's still a bust, IMO.

 

[No Fun Shogun]

We didn't draft Rodgers because Grossman was our guy.

.... yeah, he was a bust, and he was a bust that convinced the old regime to pass on a guy that proceeded to clownpound us for a decade.

 

[ChiHawks10]

We didn't draft Rodgers because Grossman was our guy.

.... yeah, he was a bust, and he was a bust that convinced the old regime to pass on a guy that proceeded to clownpound us for a decade.

Drafted Benson the same year Rodgers went, also.

They also passed on DeMarcus Ware, Shawne Merriman, Adam Jones, Roddy White, Vincent Jackson, Frank Gore, Heath Miller, and Antrel Rolle that year. That was a pretty nasty draft, actually...going back and looking at it. All those guys basically went in the first two rounds. The Bears took Cedric Benson and Mark Bradley in those rounds...

 

[AmericanDream]

I would.

He didn't get the Bears to a SB. Their dominating elite D did.

He's not a true bust in the sense that he hung around in the league a lot longer than most... but he's still a bust, IMO.

I saw the list above of bad picks, those are busts...I just can't really put Grossman into that category, and I f***ing hated the guy lol! There are different levels of bust...I can't call him a bust and then say the name Ennis in the same sentence..

 

[No Fun Shogun]

Sure, I get that, there are shades of bust. He was no Ryan Leaf, but few are.

But if in the next year or two there's an apparent next great QB that inexplicably slides, if we decide not to go after him because Trubisky's our guy and hasn't really developed very much, I will call a Rodgers2.0 situation.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

I saw the list above of bad picks, those are busts...I just can't really put Grossman into that category, and I ****ing hated the guy lol! There are different levels of bust...I can't call him a bust and then say the name Ennis in the same sentence..

So guys like Brady Quinn aren't busts because they bounce around NFL as backup?

A crappy 1st round pick can bounce around league for 6-9 years if they are QB

Hell teams are still giving EJ Manuel chances. He just got cut by Raiders last week

 

[AmericanDream]

So guys like Brady Quinn aren't busts because they bounce around NFL as backup?

A crappy 1st round pick can bounce around league for 6-9 years if they are QB

Hell teams are still giving EJ Manuel chances. He just got cut by Raiders last week

I said there are different levels of a bust.

Grossman was a 1st round pick, if he wasn't a 1st round pick he wouldn't even get consideration for any type of bust. But he was a late first round pick and not a top 10 pick, there is still a difference there.

You can call him what you like, I never liked the guy, but no, I do not think he is a pure bust.

Explain how Grossman should be called the exact same thing as Ennis?

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Well if you want to talk about differences and levels of bust No Fun made pretty good point that Rex as a bust was one of the most costly mistakes in franchise history given Rodgers situation

Also it should be reminded that Bears passed on Joe Flacco in 08 because management was comfortable with Orton/Grossman situation and were gun shy about drafting a QB again after expending 1st so recently on Grossman

How Angelo and Lovie came to conclusion that Grossman would bounce back or Orton would prove to be answer at QB position in 2008 is one of the most baffling decisions in Bears history

Especially since Orton has shown so little in NFL and Grossman was a complete trainwreck at that point

 

[b1e9a8r5s]

How many teams passed on Rodgers? Rex was a bust, although not to the level of the other players (Enis, McCown, Terrell) mentioned, but I don't think you can bring Rodgers into the equation. They weren't the same draft year and aren't really related. But if we are going to use that logic for some reason, the Bears took kicker Paul Edinger 25 picks before Brady.

 

[AmericanDream]

Well if you want to talk about differences and levels of bust No Fun made pretty good point that Rex as a bust was one of the most costly mistakes in franchise history given Rodgers situation

Also it should be reminded that Bears passed on Joe Flacco in 08 because management was comfortable with Orton/Grossman situation and were gun shy about drafting a QB again after expending 1st so recently on Grossman

How Angelo and Lovie came to conclusion that Grossman would bounce back or Orton would prove to be answer at QB position in 2008 is one of the most baffling decisions in Bears history

Especially since Orton has shown so little in NFL and Grossman was a complete trainwreck at that point

but that is not on Grossman, that is on management. and we can do that for nearly every player drafted that didn't make it as we passed on someone else...the optics stink and it sucks, but you can't use that to base a player as a bust or not.

I just asked to explain how you can call Ennis the exact the same thing as Grossman? I just do not see it..

 

[Illinihockey]

I wouldn't call Grossman a bust....

10 year players who pass for over 10,000 yards are not a bust...he wasn't as good as originally hoped, but a bust? no chance.

He also started in the Super Bowl

 

[AmericanDream]

He also started in the Super Bowl

yes he did, but a slight chance you or me could have as well with that defense and Hester behind him lol!

 

[Kurtosis]

So from what I have been reading it doesn’t look like Smith is going to get much burn Sunday. Apparently he hasn’t practiced in full in weeks.

It would be a lie if I said I wasn’t disappointed.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

He also started in the Super Bowl

And he is the worst starting QB in Super Bowl history

Who's performance is up there for possibly the worst performance from a QB in a SB

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

but that is not on Grossman, that is on management. and we can do that for nearly every player drafted that didn't make it as we passed on someone else...the optics stink and it sucks, but you can't use that to base a player as a bust or not.

I just asked to explain how you can call Ennis the exact the same thing as Grossman? I just do not see it..

Well I was just showcasing how his busting hurt organization more then a RB busting

Ennis set Bears back a few years. Grossman and QB situation actively sunk Bears during best contending window in franchise history since mid 80's

Also look at what Rex had and failed miserably with

A good veteran OL that was strong for several years
A good 1-2 punch at WR in Muhammad and Berrian + a good all around TE in Clark (Still wished for more depth at WR as Davis was ok but Bradley was mediocre)
A devastating 1-2 punch at RB (Before our idiot GM traded away Jones)
An Elite D
An Elite ST

So if you want to talk about impact the failure of player had on organization Rex busting was the most costly in Bears history

 

[AmericanDream]

I always got into debates like this in hockey as well.

Prime example was Alexandre Daigle - he went #1 overall in 1993...is he a bust? I think we pigeonhole too many players into one term.

If you switched Daigle with Todd Harvey at 9th overall, is Daigle still a bust? My answer to that is NO. So we base this on where a player gets drafted at vs actual performance of fellow draft picks meaning Daigle did enough to not be a bust if he was picked 8 spots lower...just 8 spots. But Daigle was a #1 overall pick, and as #1 overall picks go, yeah he didn't do so hot.

At 16th overall, Edmonton picked Nick Stajduhar - he played 2 NHL games in his life - that is what I view as a bust...so Daigle will get the same term used despite playing over 600 NHL games as Nick Stajduhar will...that is what I always will have a problem with and why bust shouldn't encompass just everyone who didn't live up to expectations.