BCHL adding 5 Alberta teams | Page 8 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

BCHL adding 5 Alberta teams

There has to be legal ramifications for the AJHL cancelling games for teams that are in good standing withing Hockey Canada.

I don't think this is a good look/move on the AJHL's part.

I don't think it would be a good look on the AJHL/Hockey Canada if like Brooks wins the Royal Bank Cup (or whatever its called now) this year and then defects to another league.

Bottom line is you don't do this move in the middle of a season. This should've been dealt with in the off-season so players aren't affected.
 
Rumours are flying around some MJHL organizations that there are talks of a "Prairie Junior Hockey League" combining teams from MJHL, SJHL and AJHL. Having different divisions to limit travel and move towards a more competitive league, leaving out some of the bottom feeder teams that struggle (Wpg Freeze, Wpg Blues, Selkirk) and I'd potentially add in OCN, Neepawa and Swan Valley.

Leagues will need to think outside the box so they don't lose the top end talent for nothing to the BCHL as it grows.

Hockey Canada is hurting at many fronts right now. They need to re-evaluate how they do business or they will continue to lose support of league, fans and hockey players. Sad state of affairs for them right now.

But hey....the not allowed to change in dressing rooms rule was their BIG NEWS of the year...otherwise its been a pathetic year. And I think leagues under the CHL should consider becoming independent as development from Hockey Canada has diminished especially the further west from Toronto you go.

So this is a total aside - but I used to live in Flin Flon back in the 90s - which is under an hour away from The Pas, which is right next to OCN (Opaskwayak Cree Nation, a first nations reserve, for those that don't know Manitoba).

Back then I thought that the OCN Blizzard were a total powerhouse in the MJHL?

It's always funny though how the big city Junior A teams struggle, while in smaller markets they seem to thrive. Heck I also used to live in St Paul, AB and the Junior B Canadiens were the talk of the town despite Junior B hockey being nothing special.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom ServoMST3K
Shouldn't BCHL change its name if it's got teams outside of BC?
Canada west HL (CWHL)
 


So......

They claim to be in good standing when they aren't.
They say they aren't joining another league, which they are.
They claim the public is disappointed, which isn't the case.

Such Clowns
 
Don’t know how anyone can support these suspensions.

“It would be a bad look if a team gets a trophy and leaves”

No it wouldn’t.
 


So......

They claim to be in good standing when they aren't.
They say they aren't joining another league, which they are.
They claim the public is disappointed, which isn't the case.

Such Clowns

They claim to be in good standing... They are though. They've honoured every aspect of their commitment and responsibilities for this year. They have breached no hockey Canada or AJHL rule or regulation.


They say they aren't joining another league... Read it again, they said this year. They are committed to the AJHL this year, they aren't leaving it this year.

The public is disappointed... What circles do you follow, most people I know who follow the AJHL are absolutely bummed right now that the season was cancelled.
 
Rumours are flying around some MJHL organizations that there are talks of a "Prairie Junior Hockey League" combining teams from MJHL, SJHL and AJHL. Having different divisions to limit travel and move towards a more competitive league, leaving out some of the bottom feeder teams that struggle (Wpg Freeze, Wpg Blues, Selkirk) and I'd potentially add in OCN, Neepawa and Swan Valley.

Leagues will need to think outside the box so they don't lose the top end talent for nothing to the BCHL as it grows.

Hockey Canada is hurting at many fronts right now. They need to re-evaluate how they do business or they will continue to lose support of league, fans and hockey players. Sad state of affairs for them right now.

But hey....the not allowed to change in dressing rooms rule was their BIG NEWS of the year...otherwise its been a pathetic year. And I think leagues under the CHL should consider becoming independent as development from Hockey Canada has diminished especially the further west from Toronto you go.

I'm not at all shocked to hear this, there's no way the MJHL and SJHL would take the news out of BC/AB lying down without a response of their own. They have to do something to try and stop the potential outflow of talent out west. Moving to a "super junior A" model would help in that regard.

I know this is getting into the details but I think the "bottom feeder teams" are those which don't have at least two of the following:
a) adequate facility
b) large market with large player pool
c) strong local support

Swan Valley, Wayway, Neepawa and OCN would be on that list.

There has to be some kind of Winnipeg representation and tbh I think a Winnipeg team would do reasonably well if it was well run, and there was a promise of more "meaningful" hockey (i.e. it involves players who are headed somewhere as opposed to this being the end of the line). But that means merging the Blues and the Freeze... I still don't get why the Freeze continue to exist given that they were a last minute addition to balance the divisions in expectation of a pandemic season with only intra-division play and they have been a sad sack team right from day one. (I assume the only reason they exist is as a pure pay to play venture that turns a profit?) The Selkirk Steelers are a bit tricky, they have pretty solid potential as an organization... strong community roots, a good arena, close to Winnipeg, but they've been in a down cycle. I don't think it's terminal, though.

So you take Virden, Dauphin, Steinbach, Winkler, Portage, Niverville and the Winnipeg Blues and that's a pretty good Manitoba division of a prairie super junior A league.

It's always funny though how the big city Junior A teams struggle, while in smaller markets they seem to thrive. Heck I also used to live in St Paul, AB and the Junior B Canadiens were the talk of the town despite Junior B hockey being nothing special.

The only "big city" junior A teams in Manitoba are the Winnipeg Blues and Freeze. The Freeze are new and as noted above, have accomplished virtually nothing in their history, but the Blues have a long heritage that goes back nearly a century (they have Memorial Cup wins in their lineage) and they were a very competitive team up until a few years ago. The past few years have been rough for them, though.

Both teams get very little fan/corporate support, though. I have been to a few Blues and Freeze home games in the past few years and honestly the vibe has diminished to basically that of a beer league game. When the Blues played at The Rink (before the fallout between 50 Below which owned the WHL ICE and The Rink) the presentation was OK, facilities were decent, etc.. but now they play in a tiny rink at the Jets training facility and there is nothing. It's always fewer than 100 fans in the crowd - my kid has more people in the stands for his games. There is really no Blues/Freeze fanbase at all, there are none of those typical junior A fan characters in the crowd (the crusty old guys, the confirmed bachelor hockey nuts, the elderly ladies, the young kids). The only people in the stands are parents/girlfriends and "hockey people" somehow involved in the league or scouts or whatever. No sponsor messages, no ads or promotions, just garbled announcements and terrible 70s/80s music on the speakers. Both the Blues and Freeze stink despite being in a city with a large hockey talent pool. It's a pretty grim situation. I have a hard time imagining a worse setup in terms of Canadian junior A hockey.

Merging the Blues and Freeze and trying to sell the sizzle of a new, more meaningful junior hockey league could provide a fresh start, though. As a regular fan I'd certainly pay more attention if that was the case.

They claim to be in good standing... They are though. They've honoured every aspect of their commitment and responsibilities for this year. They have breached no hockey Canada or AJHL rule or regulation.


They say they aren't joining another league... Read it again, they said this year. They are committed to the AJHL this year, they aren't leaving it this year.

The public is disappointed... What circles do you follow, most people I know who follow the AJHL are absolutely bummed right now that the season was cancelled.

You have to feel for the small handful of unlucky AJHL players whose junior careers were disrupted at the front end by the pandemic, and at the back end by this.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Tom ServoMST3K
I don't think it would be a good look on the AJHL/Hockey Canada if like Brooks wins the Royal Bank Cup (or whatever its called now) this year and then defects to another league.

Bottom line is you don't do this move in the middle of a season. This should've been dealt with in the off-season so players aren't affected.
They aren't doing this move in the middle of the season. They intended to finish out the current year and move next year.

Bottom line is, these teams are all apparently in good standing with the AJHL, CJHL and HC so cancelling seasons should ultimately have ramifications.

So......

They claim to be in good standing when they aren't.
How exactly are they not in good standing? Are they behind on fees? Ineligible players? What is it?
 
The only "big city" junior A teams in Manitoba are the Winnipeg Blues and Freeze. The Freeze are new and as noted above, have accomplished virtually nothing in their history, but the Blues have a long heritage that goes back nearly a century (they have Memorial Cup wins in their lineage) and they were a very competitive team up until a few years ago. The past few years have been rough for them, though.

I think it's just inherent to big city hockey - fans are spoiled for choice and so Junior A hockey gets ignored.

One of the best hockey fan experiences I ever had was going to a Flin Flon Bombers game. But if you live up in Flon Flon - there's not a whole else going on in that town. So the local Junior hockey team becomes a point of civic pride.

I know in the AJHL there are zero teams in Edmonton itself. There are teams in Spruce Grove and Sherwood Park (which are basically Edmonton suburbs now) but it's basically just a rural league. Edmonton hockey fans just aren't interested.
 
From a business standpoint, I get both sides. The teams should have played out the string and announced in the offseason. They created the PR storm and the league reacted to punish them for saying they are going to leave. I don't feel sorry for the teams because it means less opportunity for kids playing hockey in Alberta. Brooks regularly runs with scant few AB kids on the roster, and now, as well as the other teams, will have less.
 
I think it's just inherent to big city hockey - fans are spoiled for choice and so Junior A hockey gets ignored.

One of the best hockey fan experiences I ever had was going to a Flin Flon Bombers game. But if you live up in Flon Flon - there's not a whole else going on in that town. So the local Junior hockey team becomes a point of civic pride.

I know in the AJHL there are zero teams in Edmonton itself. There are teams in Spruce Grove and Sherwood Park (which are basically Edmonton suburbs now) but it's basically just a rural league. Edmonton hockey fans just aren't interested.

In fairness, Edmonton hockey fans are pretty good at turning up for hockey in general. Obviously the Oilers are well supported but so are the Oil Kings. And interestingly, so are the Golden Bears. Typically U Sports hockey doesn't get a ton of attention outside of New Brunswick, but the Bears seem to have a small niche of fans, usually in the one to two thousand fans a game range. By contrast, the Bisons here in Winnipeg have seldom cracked 200 fans in recent years.

When I was a kid back in the 80s I was a fan of the local MJHL team (there used to be several teams in Winnipeg). On occasion I'd go with my elementary school pals on a Sunday night and watch the games. It's not like it was ever huge, but there was a small cadre of fans, volunteers and sponsors that made the team feel significant. Maybe not on the level of what you'd see in a smaller town, but at least it was something. By contrast, the Winnipeg Blues and Freeze get nothing.

I don't think a Winnipeg junior A team would ever match Flin Flon when it comes to popularity, but maybe if this PJHL thing happens and a bit of effort is put into the franchise, it could get back to the level that the Winnipeg teams were at in the 1980s. If nothing else it would dramatically reduce the pay-to-play costs that the kids and their families are enduring right now, in addition to creating something that would strengthen the local hockey culture.
 
In fairness, Edmonton hockey fans are pretty good at turning up for hockey in general. Obviously the Oilers are well supported but so are the Oil Kings. And interestingly, so are the Golden Bears. Typically U Sports hockey doesn't get a ton of attention outside of New Brunswick, but the Bears seem to have a small niche of fans, usually in the one to two thousand fans a game range. By contrast, the Bisons here in Winnipeg have seldom cracked 200 fans in recent years.

When I was a kid back in the 80s I was a fan of the local MJHL team (there used to be several teams in Winnipeg). On occasion I'd go with my elementary school pals on a Sunday night and watch the games. It's not like it was ever huge, but there was a small cadre of fans, volunteers and sponsors that made the team feel significant. Maybe not on the level of what you'd see in a smaller town, but at least it was something. By contrast, the Winnipeg Blues and Freeze get nothing.

I don't think a Winnipeg junior A team would ever match Flin Flon when it comes to popularity, but maybe if this PJHL thing happens and a bit of effort is put into the franchise, it could get back to the level that the Winnipeg teams were at in the 1980s. If nothing else it would dramatically reduce the pay-to-play costs that the kids and their families are enduring right now, in addition to creating something that would strengthen the local hockey culture.

Yeah, Golden Bears games are a surprisingly good time also. I've been a handful of times, always enjoyable.

But the world is just different then it was in the 1980s. Back then you had what 3 channels unless if you were one of the lucky few to have cable? Now you have hundreds of thousands of things to watch all just a click away.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jetsmooseice
They claim to be in good standing... They are though. They've honoured every aspect of their commitment and responsibilities for this year. They have breached no hockey Canada or AJHL rule or regulation.
I've been trying to wrap my head around this part: have they violated a league rule? Is there a don't-shame-the-family rule? That's the only justification I could see.
They say they aren't joining another league... Read it again, they said this year. They are committed to the AJHL this year, they aren't leaving it this year.
Yeah, that's not what the statement said. They said "we have not entered any agreement to leave" the AJHL or Hockey Canada "nor have we made any announcement to that effect." That's one of those technically-true-but-bullshit statements. The BCHL made the announcement that those five teams are joining the BCHL, and to do that, they would have to leave the AJHL, but right, they haven't announced they are leaving. It's like me lighting a fire with a lighter and then arguing I didn't strike a match so I'm not an arsonist.

I don't think anyone is served by pretending this is all one side's fault or the other. I get that the BCHL and some of these other teams feel that Hockey Canada doesn't meet their needs, but A) Hockey Canada has its own needs and B) teams pulling the plug mid-season is a good reason for the rest of the league to be resentful
 
From a business standpoint, I get both sides. The teams should have played out the string and announced in the offseason. They created the PR storm and the league reacted to punish them for saying they are going to leave. I don't feel sorry for the teams because it means less opportunity for kids playing hockey in Alberta. Brooks regularly runs with scant few AB kids on the roster, and now, as well as the other teams, will have less.
But did the teams actually announce anything? Isn't it just speculation that they are leaving the AJHL like the whole world junior scandal.

Yes people are connecting the dots and there is reason to believe they are leaving, but they haven't formally said or did anything yet.
 
But did the teams actually announce anything? Isn't it just speculation that they are leaving the AJHL like the whole world junior scandal.

Yes people are connecting the dots and there is reason to believe they are leaving, but they haven't formally said or did anything yet.
So when the BCHL announces that five AJHL teams - specifically these five teams - are joining that league next year, that doesn't count as an announcement?


Or are to believe that those five teams are going to simultaneously have franchises in both leagues?
 
So when the BCHL announces that five AJHL teams - specifically these five teams - are joining that league next year, that doesn't count as an announcement?

Or are to believe that those five teams are going to simultaneously have franchises in both leagues?
BCHL can say whatever they want doesn't make it true.

There could still be a chance that one or all or none of the teams would change their mind too.

Fact is until the AJHL teams actually do something you really can't do much if you are the AJHL.
 
BCHL can say whatever they want doesn't make it true.

There could still be a chance that one or all or none of the teams would change their mind too.

Fact is until the AJHL teams actually do something you really can't do much if you are the AJHL.

The odds of the BCHL just making this story up are incredibly low. The 5 teams in question have all given non-denial denials, saying that they intend to fulfill their commitments for the 2023-2024 season. Note they've never said anything like "and we look forward to playing in the AJHL for many years to come".

It seems that the AJHL can do something - they just called off games for those teams. Whether they should or not is a different question, but they appear to be able to do so.
 
The ability to recruit underage players from outside the province is the exact opposite direction junior hockey should be heading IMO - I guess for the money/progression it makes sense, but for the health of the average player, I'm not a fan.
 
The ability to recruit underage players from outside the province is the exact opposite direction junior hockey should be heading IMO - I guess for the money/progression it makes sense, but for the health of the average player, I'm not a fan.

Yeah, as a hockey dad I would have thought the advantage to Junior A hockey would be to have kids playing much closer to home and not have such crushing travel schedules.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom ServoMST3K
The ability to recruit underage players from outside the province is the exact opposite direction junior hockey should be heading IMO - I guess for the money/progression it makes sense, but for the health of the average player, I'm not a fan.

I get what you're saying, but nothing fundamentally changes from the sounds of it, though. I guess they are moving in the opposite direction you'd like, but the changes are pretty incremental. As before there will still be some players moving long distances to play junior A. That happens now, though.

I guess travel distances will increase but again, only marginally as the BCHL will still be BC-heavy. I guess the Alberta team players will have some more bus riding to do, but it will be far less than what they'd have to put up with in the WHL.

Interestingly, Manitoba has its own "outlaw" junior league that was brought into the Hockey Canada fold years ago. The little-known Manitoba Major Junior Hockey League (MMJHL, the 'major junior' comes from its adoption of major junior overager rules at the time) is a league that plays exclusively in and around Winnipeg. It is specifically designed to allow players who are students or who are working to play competitive hockey too, it provided an alternative to players at a time when the MJHL and the local Jr. B league involved lengthy bus trips across rural Manitoba. From what I have heard the MMJHL is considered a strong jr. B league.

I wonder if this type of arrangement might become more popular in Alberta and BC, i.e. if you're not on the NCAA track why bother sitting on a bus for X hours to play a game in Prince George or whatever when you can just play all your games in the Lower Mainland?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tom ServoMST3K
The odds of the BCHL just making this story up are incredibly low. The 5 teams in question have all given non-denial denials, saying that they intend to fulfill their commitments for the 2023-2024 season. Note they've never said anything like "and we look forward to playing in the AJHL for many years to come".

It seems that the AJHL can do something - they just called off games for those teams. Whether they should or not is a different question, but they appear to be able to do so.
I really don't care about the should or should not or able to.

Are they legally allowed to, is going to be the question? Of course right now I don't know if anyone has this answer.

CHI was able to cancel Perry's contract, but doesn't mean there isn't future ramifications on them for doing so.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Latest posts

Ad

Ad