Post-Game Talk: BATTLE OF ONTARIO GAME 2 - LEAFS WIN IN OT 3-2!

[wingman75]

It’s not the bug, it’s feature. I like it a lot actually. We are not looking for pretty play. We allowed ourselves if under pressure and there is no good outlet to just dump it out of the zone, ice it or whatever.
In fact this is what good teams like Boston did to us in the past. The goal is to disrupt flow of opposition game, eliminate immediate danger and regroup / restructure your positions.
It’s almost like timeout in basketball when opposing team is on the roll. They come back 30 sec later and cannot score anymore.
On a bit humorous note, we are tiring their defence because they need to skate all the way back on icing.

I like the risk-adverse play, not arguing against that. BUT, when you do have the puck you have to keep making plays to keep the opponent honest and put them under at least some pressure. They didn't do that in the second. The third was near perfect, just one single mistake and a good play by the Sens.

 

[Rob Brown]

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

 

[Madap]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

Agreed. And then put him back in for game 4. It will be an auto goal.

 

[cupdreaming]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

I agree. Patches would add size and veteran consistency to the 3rd line.

 

[Twine Tickler]

Around 15 years ago, there was a huge revolution in football (soccer) originating from the Spanish were possession and ball retention were paramount. Under no circumstances were players allowed to relinquish possession to the opponents unless it resulting with a shot on target. This meant that teams (especially the Spanish teams and teams coached by Spanish coaches) were pass the ball around for 5 minutes at a time. Teams were getting around 1,000 completed passes per game. Most of it was spent going sideways or backwards. It took a lot of the individual creativity out of players, and focused on creating triangles and passages of play.

Fast forwards 15 years ish and a new way of playing is starting to emerge. Funnily enough, originating in Spain again, but also Portugal. The style basically involves not having the ball at all. Sitting in a very low block and having the full backs sit narrow, forcing the opposition to play wide, waiting until the ball enters a pre-determined hexagonal area of the pitch, swarming the player on the ball and his two nearest outlets, and then hitting them on the break passing through the lines.

Best example of this new style are Nottingham Forest, Mainz and Getafe.

Basically, it is what the Leafs are actually doing on the ice. If the Leafs plan on going deep, this style should provide them with plenty left in he tank further down the road.

Yup,

time will tell if its the right formula. It clearly seemed to work in the regular season despite not always looking sharp to the eye. Its was almost as if in the years 2016-2024 we were content trading chances with the logic of "our skill is better, we will convert more if chances are equal or greater than our opponents". But what we continually ran into was trading chances didn't always result in SOG, let alone goals for. There are a lot more guys selling out to block shots in the playoffs, and goaltenders tend to be more dialed. So despite getting chances, we were failing to convert them at any rate of efficiency. Not to mention, a lot of goals in the playoffs don't even come from HDCF. Look at Tkachuk and JT goals last night. Pucks on net that get good bounces.

Whereas now, it really feels like we are content playing low event hockey. Even if we give up more chances than we create, we are content putting that same skill up against the opponent. Largely because of that low conversion rate on both ends.

For example, if the average conversion rate of a HDCF is 25% and we get out chanced by a rate of 2:1, the below scenarios unfold:

16 HDCA and 8HDCF = a score of 4-2 (high event hockey)

whereas

8HDCA and 4 HDCF = a score of 2-1 (low event hockey)

obviously these number are completely arbitrary and not based on real life data, but it still illustrates the point that in low event games you are far more likely to be 1 shot away from winning/tying the game late.

It just feels like we aren't out of games as much as years past. Even if we do get down early. It's far easier to make an in game adjustment to play more loose and push for offense when needed vs the other way around.

 

[Jmo89]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

Same. Robertson for Patches.

 

[Leafsfan74]

Few thoughts:

Interesting to see a Keefe team still scoring 1 goal per game in the playoffs.

Don't miss Kampf in the lineup

Love not having to face Kucherov, Barkov or Pasta in the first round. Take a bow for winning the Atlantic.

Surprised to see Berube actually play Robertson late in the game and OT after the high stick. Would have been easy to glue him to the bench like many other coaches would have. Not really an observation on Robertson as much as the way he treats players as a whole. He gives them a chance to redeem themselves which I believe allows players to just play and not focus on making a mistake.

Last night wasn't pretty. But there is no part of me that ever thought the Leafs aren't winning this series. An odd calm around this team. For me, it's because of Stolarz. He has become our MVP in many ways.

Berube has shown throughout this season to give players a second chance in-game. He might make them sit a few shifts but then he puts them back out after the message has been sent.

It's worked out for him thus far. Players know when they've made mistakes. Do they learn from them though?

 

[Tak7]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

I do like that Berube is giving Robertson another chance.

But ohhhhhh boy, if Robbo goofs up again, never mind the press box - Nicky might be sent to Mars.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Usually I say don't touch a winning lineup.

But I thought Robertson was really bad last night.

I'd consider sitting him.

Like I expected if anyone comes out, which is a very tough call after 2 wins, it is Robertson .. da thing is maybe best to do that move after a loss .. right now Berube likely keeps same lineup going .. but line 3 is a big worry as they are getting tilted virtually every shift

 

[TheBeastCoast]

See I don't think Robertson was bad overall...he has mostly been good honestly. He is just to prone to those careless stick penalties. Hopefully he learned his lesson.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I think this is the right call.

Robby looked god in game 1, he had a bad game 2. I think he's earned the right to have 1 bad game at this point. I think he knows he can't afford another stinker. Which is kind of the hunger you are going to want in game 3.

I don't like the idea of putting Patches in. He hasn't played since February, and I am not sure I see how Kampf provides us anything more than neutral minutes.

McMann - Domi - Robertson line needs to be better. Plain and simple. But that line has worked in the past, and I really think it can get back to that level of play. They really can't be much worse than they already have been

 

[Beneven Stanciano]

Yup,

time will tell if its the right formula. It clearly seemed to work in the regular season despite not always looking sharp to the eye. Its was almost as if in the years 2016-2024 we were content trading chances with the logic of "our skill is better, we will convert more if chances are equal or greater than our opponents". But what we continually ran into was trading chances didn't always result in SOG, let alone goals for. There are a lot more guys selling out to block shots in the playoffs, and goaltenders tend to be more dialed. So despite getting chances, we were failing to convert them at any rate of efficiency. Not to mention, a lot of goals in the playoffs don't even come from HDCF. Look at Tkachuk and JT goals last night. Pucks on net that get good bounces.

Whereas now, it really feels like we are content playing low event hockey. Even if we give up more chances than we create, we are content putting that same skill up against the opponent. Largely because of that low conversion rate on both ends.

For example, if the average conversion rate of a HDCF is 25% and we get out chanced by a rate of 2:1, the below scenarios unfold:

16 HDCA and 8HDCF = a score of 4-2 (high event hockey)

whereas

8HDCA and 4 HDCF = a score of 2-1 (low event hockey)

obviously these number are completely arbitrary and not based on real life data, but it still illustrates the point that in low event games you are far more likely to be 1 shot away from winning/tying the game late.

It just feels like we aren't out of games as much as years past. Even if we do get down early. It's far easier to make an in game adjustment to play more loose and push for offense when needed vs the other way around.

Wow, the Mike Babcock philosophy. Who could've predicted?!?

 

[leafsfan5]

Lord the things I said about M Domi during the 3rd intermission must not be repeated ever again

 

[Twine Tickler]

Wow, the Mike Babcock philosophy. Who could've predicted?!?

Babs may have been a complete dickhead, but he is a HHOF worthy coach for a reason. Guys have often said that about him as well.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

Also I feel like this is something that isn't talked about that much....in relative terms the Sens aren't that young lol. They certainly aren't an "old" team. But Brady is firmly in his prime right now, this is his first taste of the playoffs at 25. As everyone here knows, competitive cycles can come at you really god damn fast lol they have one of the worst prospect pools in the entire league, with a team that desperately struggles to produce offense at even strength. I don't see this as some future cup contending core. I think they will bounce around the playoffs for a few years and that is about it.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Kampf could see action too no?

 

[MCR74]

Who's the bitter wannabe Sens fan on the playoff board (Cheapass or something like that)? The Leafs better not sweep this thing because I fear he'll go postal.

 

[1specter]

Also I feel like this is something that isn't talked about that much....in relative terms the Sens aren't that young lol. They certainly aren't an "old" team. But Brady is firmly in his prime right now, this is his first taste of the playoffs at 25. As everyone here knows, competitive cycles can come at you really god damn fast lol they have one of the worst prospect pools in the entire league, with a team that desperately struggles to produce offense at even strength. I don't see this as some future cup contending core. I think they will bounce around the playoffs for a few years and that is about it.

They do? I dunno, I hate Ottawa but gotta give props that I've always thought the Sens generally draft pretty well. For a budget team that likely doesn't drop as much on scouting as the Leafs probably do, I find they get way more bang for buck with their picks. Kinda envious tbh.

 

[TheBeastCoast]

They do? I dunno, I hate Ottawa but gotta give props that I've always thought the Sens generally draft pretty well. For a budget team that likely doesn't drop as much on scouting as the Leafs probably do, I find they get way more bang for buck with their picks. Kinda envious tbh.

It is a really bad farm system. I think we are ranked right near the bottom with them. They basically have Yakemchuk and then nothing else behind him at all.

 

[thewave]

We got taken to the wood shed in the 2nd. I don't the the 3rd was that bad. We were smothering them for like 15 minutes before we made that boneheaded mistake with the puck.

This can happen to any team though. If it happen often you don't win the cup. Certainly worthy of mention but not a sky is falling eventually.

 

[mix1home]

that's fine. But I don't see why we can't eat up the clock with an o-zone cycle.

This is quite simple. Our D does not pinch, does not cheat, you lose possession you better go back. That means that most of the ozone control is between three forwards and they need to outplay 5 defending players. That means that we have limited time in ozone and it is up to skill of our forwards to create something there from nothing. That is why in fact we have very low scoring from our D. We are not possession team anymore, offensive chances are suppressed, but we rarely allow breakaways and opposition chances are practically non existent.

 

[likecheese]

This can happen to any team though. If it happen often you don't win the cup. Certainly worthy of mention but not a sky is falling eventually.

The dreaded 'dump and chase minus the chase' for an entire period or more at a time. I'd have had a hissyfit at that second period a few months back but it keeps happening and they keep winning regardless. Big stay-at-home defense and crazy good goaltending buys you a lot of 'down-time'.

 

[Mess]

2-0 series lead feel really good. I am not that worried about the way they played.

Did you know that the 2-0 series lead by the Leafs in the BEST performance to date by this current 3 Amigo's core after 9 playoffs seasons?

How about the best start by any Leafs team in the Salary Cap era since it began in 2005?

You should feel good because we finally have a real GM and real coach and the results speak for themselves.

 

[mix1home]

I would be concerned as well if this was against the convention of how we've played this entire year. It has been very clear from the start of the season that Berube is quite ok allowing defensive zone time as long as structure remains in tact. He clearly wants neutral ice to be hard to earn, but if that is breached he wants an entire boxing out of the offensive zone. Make our big goaltenders make saves from distance.

Not necessarily the best brand of hockey to watch, but it has worked thus far.

The good news is, we do have the ability and skill to overcome a multi goal deficit if we need to open it up a bit.

Its a style of play that makes you think it is not sustainable, yet I think we lost like 1 game all season long when we took a lead into the 3rd period. And that game was against SJ in the shootout if memory serves correct. So clearly what they've been doing has worked

Exactly. Some ppl here didn’t get the memo. This team is different in the way that if they have the lead going into third it’s then all over, man. It’s done. It’s sealed.
Let our skill create something on their own, get the lead and then block shots, protect inside, dump it, ice it, hand it over to our giants on D and in the net. Simple recipe that was used against us on multiple occasions if ppl recall.