Barzal? Who would LA have to give up?

[Docgonzo]

I’d say 1st, Turcotte and something else if Barzal really wanted to be a King and didn’t want to sign elsewhere. Isles would be wary of Vilardi’s back and Blake wouldn’t trade Byfield right after getting him. 1st, Turcotte, Iafallo and a D prospect not named Bjornfot.

But I don’t see why, unless Barzal truly hates it there, the Isles would trade a 23 year old #1 center.

 

[Rusty Batch]

Offer sheets are tougher to make sense for all parties than most make it seem.

- Does Barzal want to sign? -- Possibly if he's far apart with the Islanders.

- What type of contract are you offering? 3 year deal that walks him to a potential free agent year? 5 year deal a la Sebastian Aho that only buys out one free agent year?

- What type of contract are you offering that the Islanders wouldn't match? With Johnny Boychuk going on LTIR, the Islanders have about 11 million to spend on Barzal, Matt Martin, Andy Greene, and a 7th defenseman. Rumor has it that Martin/Greene have handshake deals and will sign once Boychuk's LTIR is official.

Three or four year deal. I'd offer a lot. We have a lot of prospects and cap space. NHL is a salary cap league. More players you have outperforming their contracts more wins you get. Kings will have a roster full of players drastically outperforming rookie contracts for the next three to 4 years. Likely the best cap situation we will have or have had in a very long time. Time to win is now. Wait to long and we will have to re-sign rookies to more expensive deals and they become much less valuable

 

[KingTech]

I would think Carter would end up in the deal simply for cap needed to go back

 

[Brodeur]

Three or four year deal. I'd offer a lot. We have a lot of prospects and cap space. NHL is a salary cap league. More players you have outperforming their contracts more wins you get. Kings will have a roster full of players drastically outperforming rookie contracts for the next three to 4 years. Likely the best cap situation we will have or have had in a very long time. Time to win is now. Wait to long and we will have to re-sign rookies to more expensive deals and they become much less valuable

A lot as in 9+ million (now in the compensation tier of two first rounders, a second, and a third)? Four year deal walks Barzal right to free agency. Islanders could begrudgingly still match 9 million but would have to make a corresponding move (find a new home for Leo Komarov).

Side effect is that you have now potentially raised the bar for Byfield's next contract as well if he pans out as expected.

 

[Basilisk]

Cammalleri, Belanger, and a 3rd round pick!!!

 

[SmytheKing]

To think we could have drafted him when he dropped to us but Lombardi wanted Lucic instead.

 

[Rusty Batch]

A lot as in 9+ million (now in the compensation tier of two first rounders, a second, and a third)? Four year deal walks Barzal right to free agency. Islanders could begrudgingly still match 9 million but would have to make a corresponding move (find a new home for Leo Komarov).

Side effect is that you have now potentially raised the bar for Byfield's next contract as well if he pans out as expected.

I'd pay two firsts, a second, and a third for 3 years of Barzal and the RFA rights to him.If we aren't winning you could flip him and recover those assetts.

 

[Token]

What’s all the hype on a 60 point player?

He had the unicorn season on Tavares’ coattails, and he sure is flashy, but end of the day he is a 60-point center.

 

[Docgonzo]

What’s all the hype on a 60 point player?

He had the unicorn season on Tavares’ coattails, and he sure is flashy, but end of the day he is a 60-point center.

He’s playing in a defensive system under Trotz. It’s like Kopitar was only a 70 point center under Suter.

 

[Token]

He’s playing in a defensive system under Trotz. It’s like Kopitar was only a 70 point center under Suter.

I don’t buy that story.

Trotz didn’t slow down Ovechkin all those years.

Kopi at least dominated puck possession and drove play like a legend. Barzal is nowhere near that level.

 

[Docgonzo]

I don’t buy that story.

Trotz didn’t slow down Ovechkin all those years.

Kopi at least dominated puck possession and drove play like a legend. Barzal is nowhere near that level.

So Barzal went from 85 points under Weight to 62 then 60.

Bailey went from 71 to 56 to 43
Lee 62 to 51 to 43
Eberle 59 to 37 to 40
Nelson 35 to 53 to 54
Leddy 42 to 26 to 21
Beauvillier 36 to 28 to 39

So other than Nelson everybody’s numbers went down once Trotz took over. Even the announcers during the playoffs kept talking about how the Islanders loved to play 3-2 or 2-1 games.

 

[Brodeur]

I'd pay two firsts, a second, and a third for 3 years of Barzal and the RFA rights to him.If we aren't winning you could flip him and recover those assetts.

Again, you didn't specify a dollar amount other than "a lot" since you seem to be glossing over that the Islanders have the right to match. You'd probably need to get to Mitch Marner territory to make the Islanders hesitate otherwise you're just making a futile effort like Montreal did with Sebastian Aho last season. There's reasons why there's only been one successful offer sheet in the salary cap era.

I like Matt Barzal a ton, watched him a handful of times during his draft while visiting friends up in Seattle. But is he really a 9+ million dollar guy? And then if Quinton Byfield develops to be better than Barzal, what are his salary requests on his second contract?

 

[Rusty Batch]

Again, you didn't specify a dollar amount other than "a lot" since you seem to be glossing over that the Islanders have the right to match. You'd probably need to get to Mitch Marner territory to make the Islanders hesitate otherwise you're just making a futile effort like Montreal did with Sebastian Aho last season. There's reasons why there's only been one successful offer sheet in the salary cap era.

I like Matt Barzal a ton, watched him a handful of times during his draft while visiting friends up in Seattle. But is he really a 9+ million dollar guy? And then if Quinton Byfield develops to be better than Barzal, what are his salary requests on his second contract?

What if Byfield turns out to be better than Kopitar and Doughty will that impact his salary request? Or what if he's better than Panarin will that increase his salary request?

Barzal is a beast, he's one of the very best skaters in the league, hes a 23 yr old that's already led a pretty good NHL team in scoring three years in a row (includes a year when prime Tavares was there)

Barzal could get up to 10.5 million annually and it would be the same draft pick compensation. I would easily be willing to spend that short term on a player of his caliber considering that cap space is just going to sit there unused otherwise.

Makes more sense to me to acquire a big assett like that now. While we still have the best opportunity to keep the contract short enough that it would expire prior to having to re-sign our youth. At that point we could figure out what to do. Re-sign or trade him?maybe we could make it all fit? Just depends how it plays out but gives us flexibility and likely a good chance at being one of the most talented teams in the league.

Remember we would still have a ton of cap space a couple years from now. Kings would be mixing in Barzal with #1D Doughty, and #1C Kopitar. And the best prospect pool in the league. And still have a lot of cap space to add big pieces. Not too hard to envision a scary roster in the very near future.

 

[kilowatt]

I’d say 1st, Turcotte and something else if Barzal really wanted to be a King and didn’t want to sign elsewhere. Isles would be wary of Vilardi’s back and Blake wouldn’t trade Byfield right after getting him. 1st, Turcotte, Iafallo and a D prospect not named Bjornfot.

But I don’t see why, unless Barzal truly hates it there, the Isles would trade a 23 year old #1 center.

This is all a moot point because it’s an Eklund rumor, but that’s more than I’d want to give up. Barzal is great but I’d rather take the chance on our kids.

 

[Choralone]

 

[Token]

So Barzal went from 85 points under Weight to 62 then 60.

Bailey went from 71 to 56 to 43
Lee 62 to 51 to 43
Eberle 59 to 37 to 40
Nelson 35 to 53 to 54
Leddy 42 to 26 to 21
Beauvillier 36 to 28 to 39

So other than Nelson everybody’s numbers went down once Trotz took over. Even the announcers during the playoffs kept talking about how the Islanders loved to play 3-2 or 2-1 games.

OK, you got something going there ... thanks for digging that up.

BTW, this makes Beauvillier allot more interesting to me ...

 

[Brodeur]

What if Byfield turns out to be better than Kopitar and Doughty will that impact his salary request? Or what if he's better than Panarin will that increase his salary request?

Barzal is a beast, he's one of the very best skaters in the league, hes a 23 yr old that's already led a pretty good NHL team in scoring three years in a row (includes a year when prime Tavares was there)

Barzal could get up to 10.5 million annually and it would be the same draft pick compensation. I would easily be willing to spend that short term on a player of his caliber considering that cap space is just going to sit there unused otherwise.

Makes more sense to me to acquire a big assett like that now. While we still have the best opportunity to keep the contract short enough that it would expire prior to having to re-sign our youth. At that point we could figure out what to do. Re-sign or trade him?maybe we could make it all fit? Just depends how it plays out but gives us flexibility and likely a good chance at being one of the most talented teams in the league.

Remember we would still have a ton of cap space a couple years from now. Kings would be mixing in Barzal with #1D Doughty, and #1C Kopitar. And the best prospect pool in the league. And still have a lot of cap space to add big pieces. Not too hard to envision a scary roster in the very near future.

It's a gamble to say the least. Toronto gave up two 1sts and a 2nd for a not quite yet 21 year old Phil Kessel. Unfortunately for Brian Burke and company, the picks ended up being worthwhile; Granted I'd point out how the narrow margin that Seguin/Hamilton could have been something like Johansen/Brodin.

I get the desire to add a forward to the 2nd worst offense in 2019-20, but the defense is what concerns me in the short term. Barzal plus a stacked forward pipeline reminds me of the early 2010s Edmonton Oilers who had difficulty balancing out their lineup.

And just to be a Debbie Downer, GMs might not have the greenlight from ownership to spend their unused cap space right now. Kings will have a nice chunk of cap opened up in the summer of 2022 but you're going to have to reserve some of that for the eventual second contracts for the incoming prospects.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The only reason anyone would think the Kings are in the market for a real veteran who can play is that they think the Kings are still about the 5 old guys left. Doughty matters. Not only is he the youngest of the bunch, but there's also no realistic replacement anywhere in sight yet.

They just got to where they are. Which is pretty damn cheap, and pretty damn youthful. They're not about to add real years and money to this equation yet.

Plus Lou isn't getting younger. Look at the Isles roster. Lots of term, lots of money, lots of guys within a couple years of 30, give or take. You could make a trade that makes sense, but not a realistic one for either team.

 

[deeshamrock]

Isles issue is that what Barzel is asking for and what they are offering are not close. And the Isles have their back to the wall with CAP issues. Even if he agreed to the 6M or so they want to offer, they'd have to move some bodies out and right now, no takers.

 

[DoktorJeep]

To get Barzal today via trade and sign would take a package that starts with a non protected first and Turcotte IMO. Or a package like Kempe and Turcotte for Barzal plus a salary dump like Clutterbuck or Komarov.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's a gamble to say the least. Toronto gave up two 1sts and a 2nd for a not quite yet 21 year old Phil Kessel. Unfortunately for Brian Burke and company, the picks ended up being worthwhile; Granted I'd point out how the narrow margin that Seguin/Hamilton could have been something like Johansen/Brodin.

I get the desire to add a forward to the 2nd worst offense in 2019-20, but the defense is what concerns me in the short term. Barzal plus a stacked forward pipeline reminds me of the early 2010s Edmonton Oilers who had difficulty balancing out their lineup.

And just to be a Debbie Downer, GMs might not have the greenlight from ownership to spend their unused cap space right now. Kings will have a nice chunk of cap opened up in the summer of 2022 but you're going to have to reserve some of that for the eventual second contracts for the incoming prospects.

And from a purely financial management standpoint, does it even make financial sense to have a contender team right now when you can't put fans in the building?

 

[Stimpythecat]

The Kings don't have the complementary players in place for a move like this. There are question marks at all 3 LHD positions, at the second line wings, and the bottom 6.

the asset cost will be high, Barzal's salary demands will be high, and this is during a flat cap with limited HRR. It's too soon for a move like this.

I am also going with thinking the Kings have an internal cap unless I hear differently from Blake.

 

[Rusty Batch]

It's a gamble to say the least. Toronto gave up two 1sts and a 2nd for a not quite yet 21 year old Phil Kessel. Unfortunately for Brian Burke and company, the picks ended up being worthwhile; Granted I'd point out how the narrow margin that Seguin/Hamilton could have been something like Johansen/Brodin.

I get the desire to add a forward to the 2nd worst offense in 2019-20, but the defense is what concerns me in the short term. Barzal plus a stacked forward pipeline reminds me of the early 2010s Edmonton Oilers who had difficulty balancing out their lineup.

And just to be a Debbie Downer, GMs might not have the greenlight from ownership to spend their unused cap space right now. Kings will have a nice chunk of cap opened up in the summer of 2022 but you're going to have to reserve some of that for the eventual second contracts for the incoming prospects.

Early 2010 Oilers didnt have guys like Doughty and Kopi. And tbh they never really had any prospect depth. Just a couple big names at the top.

 

[Statto]

The Kings don't have the complementary players in place for a move like this. There are question marks at all 3 LHD positions, at the second line wings, and the bottom 6.

the asset cost will be high, Barzal's salary demands will be high, and this is during a flat cap with limited HRR. It's too soon for a move like this.

I am also going with thinking the Kings have an internal cap unless I hear differently from Blake.

I agree. He’s a great player but we are not in a position where a great addition helps us. There are too many gaps and holes to consider which means that we just wouldn’t see the pay-off in acquiring him.

 

[Rusty Batch]

I agree. He’s a great player but we are not in a position where a great addition helps us. There are too many gaps and holes to consider which means that we just wouldn’t see the pay-off in acquiring him.

We are in a position where a great addition helps us.
Most teams struggle with acquiring legit #1C and #1 D. We already have that. Center Depth is crucial to success and we have amazing C depth. Even if we moved Barzal and Turcotte to the wing. It doesn't take much imagination to See how Kopitar/Byfield/Vilardi is a scary 1/2/3 C combo over the next three years.

Wing talent in this situation?
This is scary good...
Barzal/Turcotte/Kaliyev/Fagemo/Iafallo

Is the defenseman depth amazing? Not really but it's anchored by Doughty. There are plenty of mature prospects to fill in and we already have a couple guys that are solid NHL defenseman in Matta and Roy.

A goalie combo of Quick and Petersen is good enough.

And there would continue to be plenty of cap space to patch holes and even make a big addition over the next few years.

People are so stuck on this long term rebuild that they are forgetting how frequently good NHL players achieve near prime levels very early on in their careers. These prospects we have will never be as valuable as they are on their rookie contracts. That's just math lol.

It is easily possible to make a run at a cup starting right away. Put our prospects in an excellent situation for development in the NHL. And at the same time not negatively impact the long term success of the franchise.

We would still have cap space to resign our young players. All we would really be giving up is the draft picks to sign an rfa Barzal. The first pick they get is probably going to be in that 10-20 range and the following years 1st is highly likely to be 20+ range.