Proposal: Barzal to MIN

DemidovSaveUs

Danila Yurov Fan Club Executive Assistant
May 2, 2018
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Rossi + Ohgren + 1st has to be a competetive package if the new GM decides its rebuild time no? By the time the islanders are good Barzal will be past his prime and MIN is hopefully entering a 5 year window. Gives them real strength down the middle long term with Barzal-Ek-Yurov-Stramel.
 
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Rossi + Ohgren + 1st has to be a competetive package if the new GM decides its rebuild time no? By the time the islanders are good Barzal will be past his prime and MIN is hopefully entering a 5 year window. Gives them real strength down the middle long term with Barzal-Ek-Yurov-Stramel.
The equivalent of 3 firsts for Barzal? I can't get on board with that.
 
The equivalent of 3 firsts for Barzal? I can't get on board with that.
Who gives a shit if you overpay based on theoretical value when you have a chance to bring in the guy that can help you make the jump to true contender status? Because Ohgren and That first might be good players 3-5 years from now?
 
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He also has been playing wing since Horvat got there
Are you implying that you don’t think he can play center anymore? If so, why? I recall him being a very responsible 2-way center just a couple of years ago. He’s still an unbelievable skater, so if he can’t play center anymore, what part of his game is the reason why?
 
Are you implying that you don’t think he can play center anymore? If so, why? I recall him being a very responsible 2-way center just a couple of years ago. He’s still an unbelievable skater, so if he can’t play center anymore, what part of his game is the reason why?
Playstyle correlates more to a play driving wing with Horvat being the trigger man. They work extremely well together. It’s not that he can’t play center anymore, playing wing takes some of the defensive responsibility off his shoulders and allowed him to create more offense.
 
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Whatever else, I really don't think a new GM is going to trade a signed player for an RFA before it's clear where that negotiation is going.

As of today, it's unknown whether NYI will conduct a retool or a full rebuild. And that will be the first thing determined by the new GM. This proposal straddles that line in a way, but I think it's illusory, because Rossi is due a deal.
 
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Whatever else, I really don't think a new GM is going to trade a signed player for an RFA before it's clear where that negotiation is going.

As of today, it's unknown whether NYI will conduct a retool or a full rebuild. And that will be the first thing determined by the new GM. This proposal straddles that line in a way, but I think it's illusory, because Rossi is due a deal.
So 23yo 60 point center plus two firsts straddles the line because the 23yo needs a new contract?
 
Are you implying that you don’t think he can play center anymore? If so, why? I recall him being a very responsible 2-way center just a couple of years ago. He’s still an unbelievable skater, so if he can’t play center anymore, what part of his game is the reason why?
Whether Barzal plays center or wing is always a complicated issue - it was even when he played center.

At first playing with Horvat, Barzal was sort of playing as a pure winger, but he kind of broke out of it last year, as they became more comfortable trading roles. Part of that is that Barzal has become a really effective defensive player, combining it with his top notch ability on breakouts. The only times they don't trade roles is on faceoffs.

So in some ways, he's more of a center than he was (he'll often be low in the defensive zone while Horvat has point), but in other ways less (he doesn't take faceoffs).
 
Playstyle correlates more to a play driving wing with Horvat being the trigger man. They work extremely well together. It’s not that he can’t play center anymore, playing wing takes some of the defensive responsibility off his shoulders and allowed him to create more offense.
Right it’s obviously contingent on going into a rebuild. I just look at it this way: if they go into a rebuild, even if it goes super well and efficiently, by the time they’re out of it Brazal’s 32 or 33. The prices I just offered would kickstart a rebuild no doubt. 60 point 23yo center, .5g/game in AHL 21yo winger and a 1st
 
Rossi + Ohgren + 1st has to be a competetive package if the new GM decides its rebuild time no? By the time the islanders are good Barzal will be past his prime and MIN is hopefully entering a 5 year window. Gives them real strength down the middle long term with Barzal-Ek-Yurov-Stramel.
How much retention? That id more thsn barzal us worth given his age/ term
 
So 23yo 60 point center plus two firsts straddles the line because the 23yo needs a new contract?
I can't speculate on value. It sounds like a lot for Barzal, even though I'm not a huge Ohgren fan.

But about the contract? Yes. It kind of does.

I mean, NYI have to make a decision on Dobson, first. I don't think a very late 2025 first is going to to a huge inducement to rushing whatever their plans might end up being.
 
How much retention? That id more thsn barzal us worth given his age/ term
Obviously I can't know what NYI's next GM wants to do, but I feel pretty damn sure that that NYI aren't going to retain salary on Barzal.

One never knows what injuries may do to anyone, but Barzal at 33 (the end of that deal) isn't going to give anyone pause. No.
 
Problem with the Islanders right now is we don’t know what direction we’re heading in because we don’t have a GM. Until we have a GM and know their philosophy and plan we don’t know what future moves are probable.
 
Are you implying that you don’t think he can play center anymore? If so, why? I recall him being a very responsible 2-way center just a couple of years ago. He’s still an unbelievable skater, so if he can’t play center anymore, what part of his game is the reason why?
My assumption has been that he was just easier to move over than Horvat would be, they had Nelson as the #2C and Pageau as the #3C, so Horvat and Barzal at center wasn't really an option, pushing the other guys down.

And his faceoff numbers suck pretty bad, for whatever weight you want to put on that.
 
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Rossi + Ohgren + 1st has to be a competetive package if the new GM decides its rebuild time no? By the time the islanders are good Barzal will be past his prime and MIN is hopefully entering a 5 year window. Gives them real strength down the middle long term with Barzal-Ek-Yurov-Stramel.
That's horrendously one sided for NYI. I won't even bother to break it down.... awful, especially when you factor the cap into it.
 
Are you implying that you don’t think he can play center anymore? If so, why? I recall him being a very responsible 2-way center just a couple of years ago. He’s still an unbelievable skater, so if he can’t play center anymore, what part of his game is the reason why?
I guess for me him no longer playing C and playing on wing is just a risk I think wild should consider and be scared to take. Like why trade for a player who's not a True C?
 
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I guess for me him no longer playing C and playing on wing is just a risk I think wild should consider and be scared to take. Like why trade for a player who's not a True C?
Even if you don’t think he’s a true C, which is a premise I disagree with, your talking about getting another first line caliber player who could easily be over a point per game centering Kirill Kaprizov who matches our window perfectly. His contract I believe will be a steal as the cap goes up, especially if he gets the “playing with Kirill” boost.
 
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Even if you don’t think he’s a true C, which is a premise I disagree with, your talking about getting another first line caliber player who could easily be over a point per game centering Kirill Kaprizov who matches our window perfectly. His contract I believe will be a steal as the cap goes up, especially if he gets the “playing with Kirill” boost.
I hope you're right. I am just scared to trade for another player who's not as it seems like that's all the type of player's wild have.
 
Whether Barzal plays center or wing is always a complicated issue - it was even when he played center.

At first playing with Horvat, Barzal was sort of playing as a pure winger, but he kind of broke out of it last year, as they became more comfortable trading roles. Part of that is that Barzal has become a really effective defensive player, combining it with his top notch ability on breakouts. The only times they don't trade roles is on faceoffs.

So in some ways, he's more of a center than he was (he'll often be low in the defensive zone while Horvat has point), but in other ways less (he doesn't take faceoffs).

This has always been the weird thing with Barzal when it comes to people questioning whether he's a "True Center" or "Winger". To me, the premise of having him shift to the wing in order to take away some measure of "defensive responsibility" ultimately kind of neuters the thing that Barzal is phenomenally good at. ie. Transition play, clearing the neutral zone and entering the offensive zone with speed, puck control, and an abundance of creative playmaking vision and passing skills to create all sorts of different opportunities for linemates. To me, that's always been served best by playing him as the "center" where he's afforded more opportunities to wind up and really show off that puck-carrying capability with less of a "stop-start" game that you tend to get on the wing.


The only real thing holding him back from being a "center" to me, is his lackluster faceoff ability. Which...is an issue, but a fairly minor one. You can have another guy on his line take draws if it's just too catastrophic, especially on the Powerplay where you want Barzal starting more on the perimeter as more of a "quarterback" anyway. It's also something that...he may never be great at it, but faceoff strategy and just relentlessly working on it, is a technical skill where you can often see improvements, up to at least breaking even or whatever.



Anyway...as for the specific trade proposal here, i'd wager that is indeed a pretty competitive offer for Barzal. I think it looks a lot more realistic than a lot of what a handful of teams repeatedly want to throw NYIs way in exchange for him.

I think if it were Vancouver trying to bring him home, it'd probably look something like 1st (Top-15), Lekkerimaki, B Prospect. Which is probably in the same general ballpark...but the Minny offer probably wins out if the Isles are looking to "retool" a bit more quickly. Vancouver offer might win out if Isles are a bit scared about what that new Rossi contract is going to look like, and the significantly smaller "cap savings" that might represent. I think these are the sort of pieces that it'd probably take though...given how many teams out there are desperate for a reasonably young Top-6 Center right now, and how few are even potentially available.
 
But about the contract? Yes. It kind of does.
NYI still has to pay players and reach the cap floor if they decide to do a rebuild. Better to do so with a guy who might still be under 30 and under contract by the time they're coming out of it.
 

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