Post-Game Talk: Barracuda's beat the Jets 2-1 in OT

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JetsFan815

Replacement Level Poster
Jan 16, 2012
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ol' cement legs could've laid down on the ice and napped all game, yet you'd still probably praise his "performance."

He moved well out there, generated a couple of solid chances, immediately improved the look of the 3rd line.

I watch and judge players by watching the game not having preconceived notions and looking at everything that happens to fit that confirmation bias.
 

TEH FIRST NOEL

Registered User
Jan 31, 2021
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PAUL MAURICE'S LUGGAGE
He moved well out there, generated a couple of solid chances, immediately improved the look of the 3rd line.

I watch and judge players by watching the game not having preconceived notions and looking at everything that happens to fit that confirmation bias.


if-you-say-so-nod.gif
 

GaryPoppins

A broken clock is right twice in a day
Sep 10, 2016
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To demonstrate it is a well established pattern you should support it with the actual numbers breakdown. Sorry but IMO it is just lazy posting to say something is a well established pattern with no actual effort to establish the pattern. As an aside this is why we will miss posters like Whileee around here as he would never make a claim like this without showing the analysis that supported it.

So to paraphrase, that’s a shit post I did? Thanks dude!
 
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KingBogo

Admitted Homer
Nov 29, 2011
32,714
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So to paraphrase, that’s a shit post I did? Thanks dude!
I'll admit I could have said it nicer, but when you say there is a trend there should be some obligation to show it. Human remembrance is a very subjective thing with huge variability. My point is if we say something is fact we should at least make an attempt to prove it to be true.
 
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Potential

Registered User
Nov 11, 2017
535
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My theory on what is happening here:

I am starting to believe that the systems being implemented by this coaching staff are just either so simplistic or they are non-existent, and are subsequently completely antithetical to how we should be playing, and that the younger and/or skilled players are just throwing up their hands in the air in frustration. You could see it in the body language of a lot of the players last game. The only people who I think actually buy in to these systems completely are Wheeler and Scheifele, as it levels the skill playing field for the former, and Scheif just follows whatever 'The Captain' says in some sort of blind show of respect and loyalty.

It is my belief that when Wheeler and Scheifele were out of the line-up that the top two lines were just doing what they wanted and flipping the bird to Maurice. I saw play from Svechnikov, Dubois and Connor that I have not seen from this team in Maurice's entire tenure: offensive zone entry with drop passes and/or deep zone penetration with passing to open space (either to the slot or the corners) - a logical strategy that maximizes one of our greatest skills: speed. Our forwards can then dictate the play as the defense will have to react to these decisions, and this is difficult to do (see: our defense) - thus tiring themselves out or moving themselves out of position trying to keep up or engage and creating high danger chances for us.

The Stastny Copp Ehlers line was less effective due to Stats having trouble keeping up with the two youngsters, so Copp and Ehlers were often on their own (with the exception of offensive zone faceoffs/set plays), and most teams just end up double-teaming Ehlers as let's be honest, he is the greater threat, however they were still somewhat effective. This line needs another speedster like Harkins or Scheifele (if he hasn't been ruined by Wheeler) in there as they can keep up. Ehlers has speed to burn, and needs another threat on that line to take the pressure off of him or his skill is wasted.

Wheeler should be with Stats and Lowry on the third line, that's all there is to it. We're going to get killed until it happens.

Harkins, Vesalainen and Toninato on the fourth. Nash has looked very average, and the only way I see him on the team is if Ves continues to struggle.

The defense needs to move to a zone system, as that is what everyone is used to, and it is the most energy efficient. I also think the Morrissey Schmidt experiment is done. Schmidt is too defensively irresponsible and needs to be paired with Demelo. Put Morrissey with Stanley or, *shudder*, Beaulieu. Or, you know, just don't play Beaulieu at all because he is a lazy player (routinely cheats positionally and gets burned for it).

The line combos are wrong, whatever drills they are using are wrong, and whatever systems are being used are wrong. We have the right players, but everything just feels as though it is being mismanaged. We have won this season in spite of sloppy, predictable play, and have usually been bailed out by Hellebuyck, or when the younger players bail us out by taking matters into their own hands (see Kyle Connor). People keep saying that Kyle Connor has shifted to an even higher gear this year - and to that I say, no, no he hasn't. That is what Kyle Connor has always been capable of, and we're starting to see it this year as I think he's sick and tired of being handcuffed by his role as a trigger man for Scheifele and Wheeler, when he's so much more of a dynamic player than that.

I don't mind when we lose if we play hard and are outplayed by the other team, however that just doesn't seem to happen. The most frustrating part of these past few years hasn't been the losses or quick exits from the playoffs, it's been knowing how much potential we have, and seeing it being squandered. We could be a really, really good team.

Call it hyperbole if you want, however I seriously believe that our team would do better with no coaching at this point.
 
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AlphaLackey

Registered User
Mar 21, 2013
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Show me the pattern.

I remember when, for a while, the story was that the Jets were one of the absolute worst teams in the league with regards to blown leads. Imagine people's surprises when, once you actually added up the number of blown leads, Winnipeg was among the best in the league with a lead. But it was so easy to remember just one particular meltdown.

I strongly suspect that our early bad start in this regard (2 blown leads of 2 goals) will continue as the narrative all year even should we continue to improve in this regard.
 
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Snot Rocket

HF anti-tank squad
Feb 3, 2013
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I think the main frustration for me is you look at this team and we really don't have serious weaknesses. We have a well balanced albeit average defense. We have elite, lethal scoring and good forward size, with guys who SHOULD be able to shut things down defensively. We have an all world goalie.

Then they go out and play the way they have been. It's like having a brilliant, good looking child that just wants to smoke weed and play video games :P
Sounds like that kid is self medicating his ADHD while fulfilling a high mental arousal fix.

:naughty:

#GoTeamNeuroDivergent
 

Eyeseeing

R.I.P Peanut
Sponsor
Feb 24, 2015
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Listening to NHL Morning Skate... basically the consensus is they can't believe the Jets lost to this SJ team.

I think it’s fair to say most of us here feel the same way.
It was not a great game for Jets fans.
Not a lot to be taken away from that one…….NEXT
 

GaryPoppins

A broken clock is right twice in a day
Sep 10, 2016
2,458
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I'll admit I could have said it nicer, but when you say there is a trend there should be some obligation to show it. Human remembrance is a very subjective thing with huge variability. My point is if we say something is fact we should at least make an attempt to prove it to be true.

I think any of us watching these games would see things cited as this impression has been talked about on various podcasts(Kenny and Renny, Skates and Plates, Winnipeg Sports Talk) more and more of late. If you want me to go through season by season and break it down, I can but as a father of 2 under 4, time is a luxury I often don’t have. I just get irked by those fans saying “it’s early, yada yada yada.” You can cite the back half of last year when they went on the big skid. The year previous has a long stretch from Jan 12th of below .500 prior to the Covid shut down. 18/19, though injuries played a part on the back half, the beginning of the year saw a very similar game style to what they’ve been playing now; heavily out chanced, outplayed and little to no instances of them truly dominating their opponents

The team has been playing this way since the beginning of 18/19 and there is a larger sample size to be drawn from instead of citing that these trends are unique to this year. Just my take.
 
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Benjamin Doveridge

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Apr 15, 2019
204
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What I think is absolutely ridiculous is a bunch of millionaires who are required to show up 82 times/yr can't get it together on a work day. Even at the league minimum, they are getting paid around $9000 and at $6m/yr they are getting paid $73,000 for each game day. Not only is it the player's responsibility it is also up to the coaching staff to get the team ready! Getting paid to play sports for a living is a privilege. It is great they have a good salary but sitting out for a game while making that kind of money is disrespectful to the fans who pay their salaries.
 
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Pongs21

It's not delivery, it's Sports Desk
Jul 18, 2011
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They turned it on too late. The first half of the game was just a combination of a lack of effort and urgency. Sloppy defending and some uninterested play. The reffs were pretty bad and seemed 1 sided, but that's not an excuse. I really liked the look of Wheeler on the 3rd line. Also hope that Connor, Dubois and Ehlers get an extended look together.
 
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Jet

Chibby!
Jul 20, 2004
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What I think is absolutely ridiculous is a bunch of millionaires who are required to show up 82 times/yr can't get it together on a work day. Even at the league minimum, they are getting paid around $9000 and at $6m/yr they are getting paid $73,000 for each game day. Not only is it the player's responsibility it is also up to the coaching staff to get the team ready! Getting paid to play sports for a living is a privilege. It is great they have a good salary but sitting out for a game while making that kind of money is disrespectful to the fans who pay their salaries.
I'm not making excuses for the players but I don't think that's a realistic take.

I love my job and get paid well but I don't always feel like working and admittedly, I put in sub par efforts from time to time.

As much as fans like us think playing in the NHL is a dream and it would be impossible not to perform at a high level each and every moment, is still a job. These guys have been doing this since they were small children and once the glow of making the NHL fades its still at the end of the day a job. The Sharks had 5 guys playing that were in that euphoria of playing in the NHL for the first time and making the most of it.

I still think the Jets should have dusted them but understanding human behavior you can see see how this might have happened.

The Jets just aren't confident as a bunch and it's showing.
 

Benjamin Doveridge

Registered User
Apr 15, 2019
204
231
I'm not making excuses for the players but I don't think that's a realistic take.

I love my job and get paid well but I don't always feel like working and admittedly, I put in sub par efforts from time to time.

As much as fans like us think playing in the NHL is a dream and it would be impossible not to perform at a high level each and every moment, is still a job. These guys have been doing this since they were small children and once the glow of making the NHL fades its still at the end of the day a job. The Sharks had 5 guys playing that were in that euphoria of playing in the NHL for the first time and making the most of it.

I still think the Jets should have dusted them but understanding human behavior you can see see how this might have happened.

The Jets just aren't confident as a bunch and it's showing.

A sub par effort once in a while sure but a day off??? This is exactly why they are a professional athlete. We are asking them to put out an effort 82x/yr. They are paid a high salary so that they have all the right tools in place to do so.
 
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TEH FIRST NOEL

Registered User
Jan 31, 2021
920
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PAUL MAURICE'S LUGGAGE
My theory on what is happening here:

I am starting to believe that the systems being implemented by this coaching staff are just either so simplistic or they are non-existent, and are subsequently completely antithetical to how we should be playing, and that the younger and/or skilled players are just throwing up their hands in the air in frustration. You could see it in the body language of a lot of the players last game. The only people who I think actually buy in to these systems completely are Wheeler and Scheifele, as it levels the skill playing field for the former, and Scheif just follows whatever 'The Captain' says in some sort of blind show of respect and loyalty.

It is my belief that when Wheeler and Scheifele were out of the line-up that the top two lines were just doing what they wanted and flipping the bird to Maurice. I saw play from Svechnikov, Dubois and Connor that I have not seen from this team in Maurice's entire tenure: offensive zone entry with drop passes and/or deep zone penetration with passing to open space (either to the slot or the corners) - a logical strategy that maximizes one of our greatest skills: speed. Our forwards can then dictate the play as the defense will have to react to these decisions, and this is difficult to do (see: our defense) - thus tiring themselves out or moving themselves out of position trying to keep up or engage and creating high danger chances for us.

The Stastny Copp Ehlers line was less effective due to Stats having trouble keeping up with the two youngsters, so Copp and Ehlers were often on their own (with the exception of offensive zone faceoffs/set plays), and most teams just end up double-teaming Ehlers as let's be honest, he is the greater threat, however they were still somewhat effective. This line needs another speedster like Harkins or Scheifele (if he hasn't been ruined by Wheeler) in there as they can keep up. Ehlers has speed to burn, and needs another threat on that line to take the pressure off of him or his skill is wasted.

Wheeler should be with Stats and Lowry on the third line, that's all there is to it. We're going to get killed until it happens.

Harkins, Vesalainen and Toninato on the fourth. Nash has looked very average, and the only way I see him on the team is if Ves continues to struggle.

The defense needs to move to a zone system, as that is what everyone is used to, and it is the most energy efficient. I also think the Morrissey Schmidt experiment is done. Schmidt is too defensively irresponsible and needs to be paired with Demelo. Put Morrissey with Stanley or, *shudder*, Beaulieu. Or, you know, just don't play Beaulieu at all because he is a lazy player (routinely cheats positionally and gets burned for it).

The line combos are wrong, whatever drills they are using are wrong, and whatever systems are being used are wrong. We have the right players, but everything just feels as though it is being mismanaged. We have won this season in spite of sloppy, predictable play, and have usually been bailed out by Hellebuyck, or when the younger players bail us out by taking matters into their own hands (see Kyle Connor). People keep saying that Kyle Connor has shifted to an even higher gear this year - and to that I say, no, no he hasn't. That is what Kyle Connor has always been capable of, and we're starting to see it this year as I think he's sick and tired of being handcuffed by his role as a trigger man for Scheifele and Wheeler, when he's so much more of a dynamic player than that.

I don't mind when we lose if we play hard and are outplayed by the other team, however that just doesn't seem to happen. The most frustrating part of these past few years hasn't been the losses or quick exits from the playoffs, it's been knowing how much potential we have, and seeing it being squandered. We could be a really, really good team.

Call it hyperbole if you want, however I seriously believe that our team would do better with no coaching at this point.




applause-picard.gif
 

TEH FIRST NOEL

Registered User
Jan 31, 2021
920
1,534
PAUL MAURICE'S LUGGAGE
I think any of us watching these games would see things cited as this impression has been talked about on various podcasts(Kenny and Renny, Skates and Plates, Winnipeg Sports Talk) more and more of late. If you want me to go through season by season and break it down, I can but as a father of 2 under 4, time is a luxury I often don’t have. I just get irked by those fans saying “it’s early, yada yada yada.” You can cite the back half of last year when they went on the big skid. The year previous has a long stretch from Jan 12th of below .500 prior to the Covid shut down. 18/19, though injuries played a part on the back half, the beginning of the year saw a very similar game style to what they’ve been playing now; heavily out chanced, outplayed and little to no instances of them truly dominating their opponents

The team has been playing this way since the beginning of 18/19 and there is a larger sample size to be drawn from instead of citing that these trends are unique to this year. Just my take.



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Cypruss

Stand up for your beliefs.
Oct 18, 2018
1,423
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LaSalle, Manitoba
It is almost as if our out-dated Man-Man defensive structure leads to players being all over the ice, and not where they should be. This strongly would affect our ability to clear our zone efficiently when we create a turn-over or otherwise get posession of the puck.

However, I am sure if this was the case - the coaching would recognize that as well and make positive adjustments so that players could maintain their effective positioning to enable strong transitions.

Obviously I need to go back and study some more, because if I can see that - why can't NHL level coaches see that?

I'll advise if I can find out where I am wrong on this......
 

AlphaLackey

Registered User
Mar 21, 2013
17,206
25,706
Winnipeg, MB
I'm not making excuses for the players but I don't think that's a realistic take.

I love my job and get paid well but I don't always feel like working and admittedly, I put in sub par efforts from time to time.

As much as fans like us think playing in the NHL is a dream and it would be impossible not to perform at a high level each and every moment, is still a job. These guys have been doing this since they were small children and once the glow of making the NHL fades its still at the end of the day a job. The Sharks had 5 guys playing that were in that euphoria of playing in the NHL for the first time and making the most of it.

I still think the Jets should have dusted them but understanding human behavior you can see see how this might have happened.

The Jets just aren't confident as a bunch and it's showing.

Not the least of which is that when I'm at my job, I don't have to directly compete with one of 31 other branch offices and if they put up better numbers for the month than we do, that people will declare we did nothing all month.

The adversarial nature of sports always gets overlooked when it comes to questioning commitment. I blame the myth that games are won through sheer force of will alone. "we/they just wanted it more" needs to be retired quicker that... um, like, some athlete who was famous for retiring early in their career. I got nothing. Point stands!
 

raideralex99

Whiteout Is Coming.
Dec 18, 2015
5,215
10,539
West Coast
He moved well out there, generated a couple of solid chances, immediately improved the look of the 3rd line.

I watch and judge players by watching the game not having preconceived notions and looking at everything that happens to fit that confirmation bias.
I agree he had at least two really good scoring but did not connect.
I believe the hate on him is because of the big contract which hurts the team.
 
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