Balsillie/Phoenix part V

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LadyStanley

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Do you have a source that the NHL is going to cover operating losses? Even though you did say rumor, I haven't heard that rumored anywhere.

Also the escape clause is complete speculation, no credible source has reported that.

The NHL has said it would cover expenses/losses while the team was in bankruptcy.

Balsillie requested that the NHL cover (operating) losses should he purchase the team and have to keep it in Phoenix (another year).

WRT the escape clause, it's been written into other recent sales agreements (Nashville for one). So is it really a stretch to assume a new owner may want that here?
 

bbud

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And you are not acknowledging that you asked Leek for a marketing authority to state that the footprint philosophy is valid. He did so, in spades. Please be so kind as to acknowledge same.



Quite the nonsequiter.



Let's see - to review:

- you asked for a marketing authority regarding the veracity and validity of the footprint theory;

- Leek noted that Paul Kelly confirmed in an interview (and I heard the same interview on PTS last evening) that he had confirmed that the networks themselves had stated to him that a significant rights deal would not be feasible without NHL presence in significant markets like PHO;

- your effective response is the above, which seems to boil down to "the networks are lying".

:shakehead

Here are a little couple of hints which might clear things up:

1. When hockey teams are playing on television, it is not only fans for those two teams that watch said game;

2. When hockey teams are playing on television, it is not only fans from the two markets that watch said game;

3. That being said, when hockey teams are playing on television, it would seem intuitive that it is far more likely that the people tuning into said games would be hockey fans, albeit perhaps not fans of the two teams themselves (perhaps fans of a particular player on one if said teams, for instance);

4. When television networks are selling advertising in connection with national broadcasting, it is imperative for ad revenue maximization purposes that they offer an opportunity to attract viewers from many diverse markets. If one has a purely localized attraction, one is restricted to lower-cost ad buys from local advertising clients, like Joe's Local GM Dealer or Phil's Live Bait Shop on the Corner of Main and Elm in [fill in name of local market].

5. National advertising clients (that is, those parties who want to buy advertising for their multi-location operations in diverse areas of the nation) will pay more for a product that has fans/viewers in a number of diverse regions, as opposed to fans in fewer localized areas.

6. Accordingly, in order for a sport to attract national ad buys from national advertising clients, they need a national presence.

It baffles me why you don't get this, PARTICULARLY when the head of the NHLPA backs up the NHL's own high-level marketing executives in confirming that this is exactly how that particular industry conducts itself in its commercial valuation of the NHL's (or any sport's) television product.

You can disagree all you want, but the fact is that the NHL's broadcast partners believe that a broad footprint increases the NHL's value as a broadcast property. At the end of the day, the customer's belief drives the value. Whether you or I or the NHL beleives they act differently is of no consequence. The broadcast partner's view is the only relevant one, since they have, you know, the money.

well this leaves a huge gap and some questions- if the markets in Phoenix, Nashville ,Pitts , or Columbus are tv ad revenue driven why has it not provided windfall profits in those makets now , and do we beleieve Gatorade quits hockey if Coyotes move , id say not a chance they would sell 10x more gatorade to kids in rinks in Hamilton than in Phoenix so at marketing level this one dosnt wash.
As for national buys , there are only 30 teams im sure some minor shuffles here and there will not have drastic effect
 

Northern Dancer

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The NHL has said it would cover expenses/losses while the team was in bankruptcy.

Balsillie requested that the NHL cover (operating) losses should he purchase the team and have to keep it in Phoenix (another year).

WRT the escape clause, it's been written into other recent sales agreements (Nashville for one). So is it really a stretch to assume a new owner may want that here?

I think the point was, was there any proof the NHL said this not Balsillie.
 

CGG

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All that is known is that some offer was about to be delivered to Moyes. The Judge determined it does not have to be submitted to the court prior to an auction, therefore only the people involved know the terms, not even Moyes because he failed to attend the meeting with Reinsdorf's representatives and the NHL to actually cover the letter of intent.

Why do you and other posters keep quoting the price and terms of an offer that was never made public. You know damn well this is just someone's guess. Until you can provide a link to the actual offer, please don't post a guess as fact.

Allegedly some offer was about to be delivered to Moyes. None of us can know for sure if it was in fact made or if the alleged buyer is still even remotely interested. And of course I know damn well that the details of Reindorf's offer are just a guess at this point, that's why I put that fun word "rumoured" in there. And that in fact is the whole point - there is no other offer right now from a local buyer. If there was, we woulnd't be left guessing at it.
 

CGG

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WRT the escape clause, it's been written into other recent sales agreements (Nashville for one). So is it really a stretch to assume a new owner may want that here?
I'd take that one step further - unless the buyer is the City of Glendale, there is a 0% chance that a deal gets done to keep the team in Phoenix without an escape clause or some wink-wink nudge-nudge deal with the great GB himself. Who in their right mind is going to lock in to 7 years (or 30 years) of losing millions in a lousy hockey market? Any local deal will be two years, and if the team is still drawing peanuts (17,000 per game INCLUDING the TV audience, assuming they can somehow get the games on TV in the future) then the new owners will be free to either bail or move the team to the US market of their choice. Guaranteed.
 
Nov 13, 2006
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Allegedly some offer was about to be delivered to Moyes. None of us can know for sure if it was in fact made or if the alleged buyer is still even remotely interested. And of course I know damn well that the details of Reindorf's offer are just a guess at this point, that's why I put that fun word "rumoured" in there. And that in fact is the whole point - there is no other offer right now from a local buyer. If there was, we woulnd't be left guessing at it.

So I would be as credible as you are if I claimed I heard a rumor that there are 5 offers to remain in Phoenix, and that two of them are for more money than Balsillie's offer?
 
Nov 13, 2006
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I'd take that one step further - unless the buyer is the City of Glendale, there is a 0% chance that a deal gets done to keep the team in Phoenix without an escape clause or some wink-wink nudge-nudge deal with the great GB himself. Who in their right mind is going to lock in to 7 years (or 30 years) of losing millions in a lousy hockey market? Any local deal will be two years, and if the team is still drawing peanuts (17,000 per game INCLUDING the TV audience, assuming they can somehow get the games on TV in the future) then the new owners will be free to either bail or move the team to the US market of their choice. Guaranteed.

Please supply some proof of this.

I would be much more likely to believe Glendale would be very willing to renegotiate the lease dollars involved, parking fees, and management rights in order to keep an anchor tenant, while insisting on no out clause whatsoever. What good is an arena with no anchor tenant?
 
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Fugu

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Well that is better than Winnipeg had back in 1995, they had NO buyer and NO rink.

And what do you mean by sweet-heart lease for the new buyer , is that not the exact same thing that Balsillie is trying to pull over the eyes of taxpayers in Hamilton?

Yes, that is the problem with modern sports entertainment. Tax payers have to subsidize the billionaires.


All that is known is that some offer was about to be delivered to Moyes. The Judge determined it does not have to be submitted to the court prior to an auction, therefore only the people involved know the terms, not even Moyes because he failed to attend the meeting with Reinsdorf's representatives and the NHL to actually cover the letter of intent.

Why do you and other posters keep quoting the price and terms of an offer that was never made public. You know damn well this is just someone's guess. Until you can provide a link to the actual offer, please don't post a guess as fact.

UL is mine.
No, we have media reports about the alleged offer. That is valid as long as people understand it's purported or leaked info.
 

GSC2k2*

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The NHL has said it would cover expenses/losses while the team was in bankruptcy.

Balsillie requested that the NHL cover (operating) losses should he purchase the team and have to keep it in Phoenix (another year).

Not quite accurate. The NHL is not "covering the losses" in the sense that they are eating them. They are financing the team (essentially as DIP financing) pending the sale of the team. They will be repaid the funds out of the proceeds of the sale, along with their other secured loans.

WRT the escape clause, it's been written into other recent sales agreements (Nashville for one). So is it really a stretch to assume a new owner may want that here?

It is written into the lease. There is no evidence one way or the other as to whether it is written into the Consent Agreement (the sales agreement, as you refer to it) between the NASH owners and the league.
 

Egil

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My most recent trip, I flew into London Int'l Airport rather than Lester B Pearson, and was 1000% happier with my experience.

I'm sure that if there were a team in Hamilton, teams would much rather fly through there than through Toronto... except, once again: with airports of this size, you're likely looking at restricted hours of operation. A lot of smaller airports just shut down at 10pm or 11pm. Which could be a serious limitation to teams. If a team had a back-to-back with, say, Hamilton one night and Detroit the next, or Detroit one night and Hamilton the next, then they might not have the option of flying into/out of Hamilton that night. They might be forced to either travel on game day, or travel through Lester Pearson, which blows a huge hole in the argument that road trips through Hamilton would be less stressful for Northwest Division teams than road trips through Colorado.

Looking at Westjet, they have flights leaving at 7:00 am and arriving at 11:56 pm. How late can you arrive/depart is unclear, but I suspect that accommodations would be made for a NHL charter.
 

GSC2k2*

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Looking at Westjet, they have flights leaving at 7:00 am and arriving at 11:56 pm. How late can you arrive/depart is unclear, but I suspect that accommodations would be made for a NHL charter.
Hamilton Airport does not have operating restrictions that would preclude the arrival of an NHL team.
 

CGG

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Hamilton Airport does not have operating restrictions that would preclude the arrival of an NHL team.

Correct. And actually Pearson does have a curfew, and occasionally you hear that hockey teams have to get re-routed, so instead of landing at Pearson after midnight, they land at, you guessed it, Hamilton Airport.
 

CGG

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So I would be as credible as you are if I claimed I heard a rumor that there are 5 offers to remain in Phoenix, and that two of them are for more money than Balsillie's offer?

If you want to think that, fine. But the idea that there are 5 legitimate offers out there to keep the team in Phoenix in perpetutity, with two of them higher than JB's offer, is insane. At least my "rumour" was perported as such in several media sources, I'm not making this up out of mid air.
 

HockeyScholar

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If you want to think that, fine. But the idea that there are 5 legitimate offers out there to keep the team in Phoenix in perpetutity, with two of them higher than JB's offer, is insane. At least my "rumour" was perported as such in several media sources, I'm not making this up out of mid air.
Haha. 5 legitimate offers is truly laughable. Is my $5 offer to buy the Coyotes legit too?!:laugh:

Even though some posters think that the Canadian media is evil and is trying to bring down the NHL, the media does have more credibility on these issues than you or I. And until we hear of reports claiming otherwise, we'll take the numbers that we have been given and assume they have much more credibility than some anonymous anti-Balsillie poster claiming that there are two offers to keep the team in Phoenix which are greater than Balsillie's.

If this were true, do you really think we'd be in this situation right now? Just by looking at the Gary Bettman emails, we find that he has been looking for buyers for months now, but nobody wants to take on $40 million yearly losses.
 

LadyStanley

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http://www.azcentral.com/sports/coyotes/articles/2009/06/04/20090604balsillie0605.html
Q&A with Balsillie
Won't say much about possible hockey management team (GM, coach).


http://blogs.reuters.com/reuters-de...s-ceo-sends-letters-of-reference-to-sway-nhl/
Reuters: Balsillie sends letters of reference to league
Including: Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty, Saskatchewan Premier Brad Wall, former U.S. Ambassador to Canada David Wilkins
But curiously, no letter praised Balsillie for his gumption for trying to buy a hockey team that filed for bankruptcy without even telling the NHL first and going through the courts, rather than the usual channels, to make his case.


http://bankruptcy.law360.com/regist...ion?article_id=104707&concurrency_check=false
Paid access, but plug indicates that MLB, NFL and NBA may file a "single 10-page amicus brief" WRT relocation.


http://www.nationalpost.com/sports/story.html?id=1664433
Judge lays out rules for (relocation) auction
$20m deposit. Submit bids to Moyes attorneys by 6/17.
"The competing bid should be accompanied by satisfactory evidence that the competing bidder has the financial ability to close the transaction contemplated in the competing bid," according to the bid procedures.
And the court has considered the league's position, requesting that, "the NHL submit alternative proposed bid procedures, which may govern the sale of [the Coyotes] in the event the court rules the club cannot be moved from Glendale."


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/jim_kelley/06/04/balsillie.coyotes.battle/?eref=sircrc
SI's Kelley says the battle is all about the Leafs.


http://news.prnewswire.com/DisplayR...STORY=/www/story/06-02-2009/0005036984&EDATE=
Press release on highlights of submission (Tuesday) for relocation


http://vyous.com/sports/nhl/coyotes...on-economies-new----pr-newswire-press-release
Press release on new poll showing "boost Southern Ontario and Hamilton economies" if there's a Hamilton franchise.
 

Brodie

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Isn't there supposed to be a hearing today? Sorry, haven't been able to keep up what with the actual hockey being played.
 
Nov 13, 2006
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If you want to think that, fine. But the idea that there are 5 legitimate offers out there to keep the team in Phoenix in perpetutity, with two of them higher than JB's offer, is insane. At least my "rumour" was perported as such in several media sources, I'm not making this up out of mid air.
.

Your rumor included statements like a two year escape clause in the lease. Please provide a credible media source claiming that offer includes an escape clause after two years. I believe you and a few other posters have maintained that there MUST be a two year escape clause. I doubt it. Glendale is motivated to make concessions to keep the team as a tenant, much like they offered Moyes. Since their goal is to keep their tenant, it would be counter-intuitive to think they would offer an escape as a part of those concessions.

The court filings show the offer exists. The rumors claim it's $130 million or $120 million or $140 million.

Bidders besides Balsillie will disclose their bids at auction, once the other issues are decided and the Judge sets the auction based upon that decision.
 

Egil

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A new arrival in my inbox.

Make it Seven Email said:
To all our Make It Seven Supporters,

Tell it to the Judge!

We need everyone who supports an NHL franchise in Hamilton to let the Phoenix bankruptcy court Judge know. And it's easy to do.

Tuesday June 9 is a critical court hearing to determine whether the Coyotes can be relocated when they're sold out of bankruptcy.

We need some evidence for the Judge - evidence of bigger, stronger and deeper numbers of Hamilton backers.

We need you to use our "Tell a Friend" feature to get your neighbours, co-workers, family and friends to sign up to Makeitseven.ca.

Do it today. Do it now. We need to pull together. We need to tell it to the Judge.

Make It Seven.
 

LadyStanley

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KevFu

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Haha. 5 legitimate offers is truly laughable. Is my $5 offer to buy the Coyotes legit too?!:laugh:

Hmmmm. Is there any cost to bid? Could I actually bid $5 on the Phoenix Coyotes, as long as I submit the bid to the court with the proper paperwork?

I'd do it, with the clause that I be allowed to relocate the team somewhere crazy.

I could then refer to myself as "an investor interested in bringing the NHL to _____."
 

HockeyScholar

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Hmmmm. Is there any cost to bid? Could I actually bid $5 on the Phoenix Coyotes, as long as I submit the bid to the court with the proper paperwork?

I'd do it, with the clause that I be allowed to relocate the team somewhere crazy.

I could then refer to myself as "an investor interested in bringing the NHL to _____."

Well I've already got the territory rights to Pyongyang, North Korea, so don't even think about moving it there!;)
 
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