Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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A season worthy of the award. Rodri is a lower tier winner in the same sense as Modric is and lesser extent Benz in comparison to freaks like Messi and Ronaldo.
Ballon D'or 2021: Who wins it?
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Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Well, even in comparaison to Benz, Rodri (and Modric) is low. Vini would have been a low-tier winner as well. I do not think him winning would have been unworthy. I do not mind that he did not win and the club throwing a fit over it is ridiculous.
Messi and Ronaldo, they are on a class on their own. I do not expect us to see that kind of domination any time soon.
gary69
Registered User
What kind outrage RM would have provided if Vini had scored 60+goals instead, and still finished 2nd. That's what happened to Lewa.
More than Vini's performances with Real, I'd blame his not that impressive results and scoring record for Brazil.
More than Vini's performances with Real, I'd blame his not that impressive results and scoring record for Brazil.
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
See, to me, that's probably the biggest argument.
Rodri might not have been the best player for Spain... but they won the Euro.
Vini is very "meh" with Brazil.
Messi in 2021 (Lewandowski) and 2023 (Haaland) was a little ridiculous, especially 2023 when he played half the year in MLS and did nothing with PSG.
I don't get the "Vini with Brazil" criticism.
It's the worst Brazil side since 1990. It's brim-filled with average to "good" players. It lacks workers, creativity, strength, leadership, etc.
They have a decent GK, okay CB duo, some "okay" mids and like 20 wingers/speedy/pacey forwards.
They fullbacks are awful, the strikers pedestrian, the midfield - while not awful - has a very limited ceiling.
FFS, it features Mattheus Perriera, who played for WBA and moved to Qatar (is now in Brazil).
They are STARVING for world class midfielders, fullbacks and strikers.
They're miles behind Argentina, and Uruguay has more serious players as well.
--
Agree on Messi winning in 2021 and 2023, that was silly.
(I suppose less silly in 2023 as people have a fetish for the 7 WC games as opposed to Haaland bulldozing his way to a treble)
--
As for "who won what" argument.
There is only one competition where best-on-best teams play, and only one where it doesn't depend where you were born, and that's the CL.
To me, the CL is THE measuring stick for the Ballon (for whatever Ballon is actually worth).
I don't care about domestic titles, each country will have one, hard to compare.
National competitions... To a point, but that way you perma-disqualify Haaland in any year with a EURO or WC; this is not the way. (or any player born in a small country)
The CL is the biggest factor. And has been, historically. Up until 2021 and Lewa getting passed.
Now we got City's treble team getting passed and now Madrid's team.
(and I said this earlier, I don't mind Rodri, or Vini... I am annoyed by these journalists apparently unable to recognize Carvajal had the best season in the history of football for a RB)
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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The Madrid guys don’t think Messi should’ve won a trophy. News at 6 clock.
Messi never actually deserved the ballon dor. Robbing Ribery and VVD along with those other two. But remember they don’t care about the trophy.’
Messi never actually deserved the ballon dor. Robbing Ribery and VVD along with those other two. But remember they don’t care about the trophy.’
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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Probably Barca fans
This sums it up really
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
I did not complain about any other Messi wins. 2021 and especially 2023 are debattable. If you cannot accept that, well, this conversation is useless.
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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you went from ridiculous to debatable… everything is debatable sure but he dropped and all timer in Copa. Then followed it up with another in the World Cup. Tap in Halland was never and will never be the best footballer
Scandale du Jour
JordanStaal#1Fan
Wee Baby Seamus
Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
If you’re the best player on earth, you should be able to play better with your NT than abject mediocrity. How many players have we seen elevate NT teams worse than Brazil currently is? Up their game to new levels? Let’s not pretend Vinicius plays for f***ing Guatemala.
Even in a bad generation, Brazil is still Brazil and their star player should be doing a lot more. Brazil’s Copa squad was not meaningfully worse to me than the 2014 WC squad that Neymar dragged to a semi.
And, FWIW, there’s no real reason why Haaland couldn’t conceivably pull Norway with him to a Euro semi, or something of the ilk. Countries of similar populations and resources often make runs, often carried by players of that calibre.
Has it been, though? Sneijder finished 4th as the best player on a treble. Ribery finished 3rd as the best player on a treble. It’s generally been a loose “who is the best player in the world right now” award
And trophy counting does not a best season make. Carvajal finishing 4th is already insane, take the W.
Most French fans have a great memory of OM's win.I mean... I never watched Pele in 58 lol
I did make a paper on the history of football in college and referenced the game vs Sweden though. Wish I still had it, was good work!
But lets say I started watching football properly in 90, with the WC in Italy.
I would say, off the top of my head:
Milan-Barca 4-0 final is as memorable as any WC game. Cruyff's Barca came in as the heavy favorite, and Capello's Milan just beat them to a pulp. Maldini, Panucci, Tassoti, Donadoni, Albertini, Desailly, Boban, Savicevic, Massaro... Wonderful team, brilliant game.
(I was actually rooting for Barca in that game, as a Juve fan, Milan was "the enemy"... I was a huge Moreno Torricelli fan in my teens when I was playing football... I can't think of exactly why now... teenagers are stupid)
Ajax-Milan 1-0 to end the season undefeated. Brilliant team, so many great young players.
Man Utd - Bayern 2-1 final. Probably the most iconic ending to a CL final.
Zidane vs Leverkusen when RM won 2-1. Probably the best goal in a final. Well, until 2017 and Bale's overhead kick.
Messi scoring that header vs Utd
RM beating PSG, Chelsea, City and Liverpool to win it, with incredible comebacks in the first 3 ties.
etc etc
For most European fans, I'd argue those moments are just as memorable as WC moments.
Now, I can't say for the French or how it felt when you guys won it, but for most neutrals, most of the above mentioned compare favorably to Zidane in 06 or 98, etc.
And yet it doesn't compare. Entire nation is different from a single fan base.
And even for neutrals (Maradona 86 is just wow for everyone).
And his f***ing attitude. That clown against Kimmich? Deserves all the hate he can get.
2023 should have been Mbappe with Messi 2nd.
Haaland was no better than 3rd.
As WBS put it, Haaland should drag Norway in a f***ing tournament.
Wee Baby Seamus
Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
words in my mouth! i'm just saying that "focusing on NTs in tournaments would permanently exclude guys like Haaland" is a weak argument. Haaland has done just about all he can to get Norway to tournaments, hahaha
And his so called poor team around him features at least one world class player and several promising.
Plenty of teams with much worse rosters have qualified.
Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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"Messi in 2021 (Lewandowski) and 2023 (Haaland) was a little ridiculous, especially 2023 when he played half the year in MLS and did nothing with PSG."
This was your original post. You're also being disingenuous saying he played the "half year in MLS" he made his debut late that summer and the winner was announced in October. It based on the calendar year anyway.
This closer to the truth but i still say that WC Greizzy was France is most important player.
Halaand has Odegaard and they still cant make it even with extra teams. He wasn't ever the best player in the world.
Grizou was great, no argument. But he was sick in the final (6 players were) and he couldn't perform.
Fact is Mbappe was the man of that final with those insane 1,30 minutes.
Wee Baby Seamus
Yo, Goober, where's the meat?
Absolutely, but I find it hard to call 34 goals in 37 NT matches underperformance.
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Duchene2MacKinnon
In the hands of Genius
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As someone who watches a lot of Serie A, absolutely not. I didn't even have him in my top 10, and he finished higher than I thought. Very good striker but that's about it.
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Won Serie A. Led Serie A in goals. Serie A Player of the Season. Won Copa. Led Copa in goals
I have no problem with Rodri winning, but if we are hell bent on giving it to an offensive player, why not? That’s a very strong CV
Stats back me up too. Lautaro is elite (>90%) at only one thing compared to forwards in the big 5 leagues, and it's actually a defensive stat, interceptions, because he's a forward with a lot of hustle. Rodri is elite at about 7 categories in the last 365 days.
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Everyone knows how good Rodri is. I have no problem with Rodri winning. I just think if anyone should have been higher it’s Lautaro. I also don’t think the BDO voters are looking at FBRef
