Post-Game Talk: Bagel City, Jets 4 - VGK 0

[surixon]

If Wade wasn't having a positive impact on Helle he wouldn't still be here.

Do I think Wade played the biggest role in helping him refine his technique "no", that seems to be more his summer coach who he has been working with for a long time. Just like Oates would have had more of an impact in refining Scheifele's talent then any Jets coach. But that doesn't mean he hasn't played a big role. His job seems to be more in terms of advocacy, assessing and correcting issues as they come up, and on helping him maintain his edge during the year. All of which are very important in helping Helle. Helle clearly is happy with the job Wade has done.

 

[raideralex99]

Brossoit put up a .927 in Vegas the year before he came back here. He put up an .895 under Flaherty in 2019-20.

Goalies are who they are. More than any other position. There are probably a hundred ex-goalies who could do Flaherty's job just as well as he does. He just happened to be the guy on staff when TNSE bought the Thrashers.

Don’t cherry pick your stats … use them correctly. Facts don’t lie. Brossoit stats went down after leaving the Jets. Yes the following year his save% went up to .927 with the best D in the league but he only played 11 games.

 

[Hobble]

So when fans can’t criticize the goalies, they turn on the goalie coach?

 

[GNP]

Don’t cherry pick your stats … use them correctly. Facts don’t lie. Brossoit stats went down after leaving the Jets. Yes the following year his save% went up to .927 with the best D in the league but he only played 11 games.
View attachment 1006467

Right on - only played 11 games, is the important factor. Lots of Goalies get off to a hot start, or have a short stretch where they look good, then they fall apart. Doing this over a long season, is totally a different matter.

 

[Moloch]

Right on - only played 11 games, is the important factor. Lots of Goalies get off to a hot start, or have a short stretch where they look good, then they fall apart. Doing this over a long season, is totally a different matter.

Helly's save % hasn't dipped below 922 at all this year AFAIK

 

[buggs]

He can't work with a Jets' coach in the off-season...against league rules.

Right. Which is why I stated he worked with someone else, not Flaherty in the off-season.

 

[Gm0ney]

Don’t cherry pick your stats … use them correctly. Facts don’t lie. Brossoit stats went down after leaving the Jets. Yes the following year his save% went up to .927 with the best D in the league but he only played 11 games.
View attachment 1006467

Wait, why did you say I was cherry picking but then cut off the .895 Brossoit put up in Winnipeg in 2019-20? He's had a bad season in Winnipeg and a good season in Vegas - he's up and down from season to season and he's kind of been like that throughout his career. I'm not sure goalie coach has that much to do with it.

 

[Gm0ney]

Can’t agree with your post at all. It’s like Coaches who always have their teams at the top or near it. Some people have a way with getting the best out of people, and Flaherty is one of those guys. A lot of it is psychological in instilling confidence in these guys, same as a team Coach, who sets the right mind set, and gets a team to believe in themselves. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree on this.

I'm not saying Flaherty is a bad goalie coach, I just don't think he's some kind of goalie whisperer. He's just the guy who was working for the org...he got promoted to the NHL just like Claude Noel (but he didn't take the fall for the Jets results like Noel did).

For the first 6 seasons of Jets 2.0, their goaltending was 25th, 21st, 24th, 10th, 28th and 28th. Was that Flaherty getting the best out of people?

Since they started playing Hellebuyck 64 games a season, Jets goaltending has been 4th, 8th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 9th, 1st and 1st so far this year. So is it Flaherty, or the arrival of an elite goalie?

And if Flaherty is able to get the best out of his guys, then why hasn't that translated to the playoffs?

 

[KingBogo]

Lots of goalies make it to the NHL with excellent records in juniors, college and the minors and don't end up the best of their generation

Not sure what you have against Flats, but clearly helped Helle become the goalie who he is today and it's 100% undeniable, despite your bias

Sound a little like he's used guided discovery as a coaching method with Helle. You need to know what type of person responds to that, and it looks likenhe nailed it

FEATURE: Evolving In the Crease | Winnipeg Jets

How the bond between Connor Hellebuyck and Jets goaltending coach Wade Flaherty continues to grow

www.nhl.com

Helly has always given Flats a great deal of credit for his success. But hey what would he know beyond posts from random fans on a fan forum.

 

[Jets 31]

Disagree, but what do I know

I was a goalie, and I played a certain style up until college when an ex-NHL goalie coached me

Completely transformed my style and took me to another level (for shitty 3rd tier college hockey)

I'm curious as to what you base your opinion on, though

You were a goalie too eh ? Now i know that you are a little messed up like me. Seriously who in the hell says fire that very hard rubber disk at my head, it will be super duper fun .

 

[Hobble]

I'm not saying Flaherty is a bad goalie coach, I just don't think he's some kind of goalie whisperer. He's just the guy who was working for the org...he got promoted to the NHL just like Claude Noel (but he didn't take the fall for the Jets results like Noel did).

For the first 6 seasons of Jets 2.0, their goaltending was 25th, 21st, 24th, 10th, 28th and 28th. Was that Flaherty getting the best out of people?

Since they started playing Hellebuyck 64 games a season, Jets goaltending has been 4th, 8th, 5th, 6th, 10th, 9th, 1st and 1st so far this year. So is it Flaherty, or the arrival of an elite goalie?

And if Flaherty is able to get the best out of his guys, then why hasn't that translated to the playoffs?

Could also be Noel vs Maurice/Bones/Arniel systems. When we first started, there was relatively little accountability.

 

[DRW204]

Don’t cherry pick your stats … use them correctly. Facts don’t lie. Brossoit stats went down after leaving the Jets. Yes the following year his save% went up to .927 with the best D in the league but he only played 11 games.
View attachment 1006467

Don't cherry pick stats... But here's my cherry picked stats

 

[scelaton]

Helly has always given Flats a great deal of credit for his success. But hey what would he know beyond posts from random fans on a fan forum.

I don't think "random fans" describes the situation well. The frequent posters here all have long track records--thousands of posts that paint a pretty clear picture of their biases and insights (or lack thereof).

The fact that an all-world goalie gives his coach credit just shows that he is a good and loyal human being, but the (non-selection biased) record of other goalies before, after and under Flaherty means more.

Not directed to you specifically Bogo, but I'm beginning to get concerned with the reaction to dissenting or negative opinions as being a sign of disloyalty to the team/player/coach. It's probably my heightened sensitivity to what is happening in the world atm, but when I see aggressive reactions to dissenting viewpoints it makes me nervous.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

It's getting silly at this point. We have a higher winning percentage against elite teams then any other team this year.

The group has risen to occasion time and time again this year.

True. But they have dropped a few turds since the break too.

The loss to LAK was no surprise. Kings seem to have Jets Kryptonite this season. I hope we never have to meet them in the PO. But losses to SJS and Buffalo hurt. Win them and we are 5 clear of Caps in same # of games, 8 clear of Stars with them having 1 in hand. Win even 1 of the 2 makes a huge difference.

But in spite of that we are 7-3 in our last 10, including wins over some strong teams. Jets continue to do well. Can't do anything about Caps and Stars beating other teams. Just have to keep winning.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Pretty happy for Comrie, he lifted his game so much vs his last outing.

Needed to bounce back. Delivered.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Helle's backups always seem to do well. I suspect he gives them some worthwhile coaching.

 

[DRW204]

Does it take away from Helly’s hart campaign that even his back up can get shut outs. Berg is so good.

it's interesting you brought this up, b/c i had a conversation w/ someone on Shesterkin's 21-22 where he finished 3rd in Hart.

Shesterkin finished 3rd with a 0.935 (0.924 for Helle), similar GA vs xGA; his back-ups though had a combined 0.896 vs a 0.914 for the Jets'.

Superior sv%, worse back-ups (so more onus or value on Shesterkin)... the field may have been better than what Helle has to face though, 1st and 2nd in Hart in 21-22 were a 60 goal scorer and a 120+ pt scorer.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Scrolling back through the results, it looks like 3 of those losses were against each other.

Three of them must have been Jets losing to SJS, Buffalo and LAK.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I've never used it but i'm getting very close, i just don't see how the Jets haven't given someone nothing but joy this season. Ya but they have to show us in the playoffs. Well why don't we at least wait until the playoffs to bitch and enjoy this incredible regular season that we are having. Hopefully you can see this post.

If they play in the PO like they would rather be golfing again, I will be pissed and almost certainly will be here bitching. But that won't diminish this regular season.

 

[Buffdog]

I don't think "random fans" describes the situation well. The frequent posters here all have long track records--thousands of posts that paint a pretty clear picture of their biases and insights (or lack thereof).

The fact that an all-world goalie gives his coach credit just shows that he is a good and loyal human being, but the (non-selection biased) record of other goalies before, after and under Flaherty means more.

Not directed to you specifically Bogo, but I'm beginning to get concerned with the reaction to dissenting or negative opinions as being a sign of disloyalty to the team/player/coach. It's probably my heightened sensitivity to what is happening in the world atm, but when I see aggressive reactions to dissenting viewpoints it makes me nervous.

A good coach doesn't make a goalie good

He makes them better

The reality is that nobody really knows the extent that Flats has helped Helle. But for anyone who has been in a mentor/mentoree position knows, there needs to be the right fit personality-wise to make it work

If a goalie hasn't gotten better under Flats, that could be as much on them as on him. Being open and coachable is a pre-requisite for being coached

So it seems that based on the results he's gotten with helle and what's been said publicly, any idea that Flats isn't in some meaningful way responsible for at least a portion of Helle's success is nothing more than bias and speculation

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

3 total posts? What a fun and lively group!

Just looking at the first page, the thread with the most activity is, "Raiders News, Notes" with 1051 posts. Not a lot of hockey fans in Vegas. Big surprise.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Who knew therd was such a sensitive segment of posters on here. As if Arniel would say that to his superstar goalie. If you did not get my sarcasam then I really cannot help you. Since, I also went on to admit I was wrong and ate crow.
The treatment I get out here is next level admonishment for having a different opinion. I am told to feel joy, act like the regular season should mean more than it does, ignore the fact there are other teams equal to or better than the Jets and ignore the fact they match up better with some teams than others. It is shocking but not as shocking as posters who take the time to press the ignore button.
It is petulant, ignorant and could be construed as bullying but I will not go away. I will be the voice of the marginized, the ignored, the bullied.
I will continue my next level analysis without the need for validation from fellow keyboard warriors that would rather admonish me than engage in thoughtful discussion about our team that will hopefully continue this great regular season in the playoffs.

You are being admonished for not using emojis. Tone and intent don't come through very well in text. I have seen much worse things posted here with no sarcasm intended. I had a few posts misinterpreted and started using emojis a lot. It helps.

And you are being admonished for being so persistently negative about a first place team. A little skepticism is one thing. A little pessimism to avoid disappointment is another. And then there is you.