Bad Contracts

[x Tame Impala]

Why are the Hawks a bad team? What makes any team bad? When you have bad players playing in over their heads. Connor Murphy does not have any attributes of a top-4 D. He's a bottom-pairing guy. He's played his entire career to bottom-pairing results. He does not tilt the ice in his team's favour. Even Hammer, declining at the end of his career, played to 51% xGF% in Arizona his final 150 games. Connor Murphy, in his 155 games in Arizona, played to 46% xGF% -- about the same as he's played to in his tenure as a Hawk. It's not team effects. It's player effects.

Agreed and I'd argue this is the single biggest misunderstanding I see on HF Boards.

Murphy isn't that good of a defenseman. If he were, he'd be performing better regardless of team strength. Granted, if Murphy played on a better team he'd be reaching his maximal potential I'm sure but if/when he gets traded to a playoff team he's not going to suddenly explode into being an awesome top 4 Dman.

He is what he is (a #5) and his lack of effectiveness has contributed to making the Hawks worse while he's been here.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Murphy is a 4-5 guy. On a well structured team he could be Oduya and eat minutes carried by a really good partner or be a really good third pairing defenseman. On a bad team he's gonna look bad playing too many minutes.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Murphy is a 4-5 guy. On a well structured team he could be Oduya and eat minutes carried by a really good partner or be a really good third pairing defenseman. On a bad team he's gonna look bad playing too many minutes.

Any iteration of Murphy subbed in for Oduya during our Cup years would’ve been problematic for us. I don’t see the top 4 capabilities there myself. He doesn’t use his size effectively enough and I don’t think he’s got the shutdown prowess. Overall have not been high on this guy past his first year here.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Any iteration of Murphy subbed in for Oduya during our Cup years would’ve been problematic for us. I don’t see the top 4 capabilities there myself. He doesn’t use his size effectively enough and I don’t think he’s got the shutdown prowess. Overall have not been high on this guy past his first year here.

I think it would have been pretty seamless because Hammer was just that f***ing good. Oduya gets credit because he did it but on a bad team his career is pretty unremarkable.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Hammer was a #2D playing a 3D role and he crushed it. I'm not downplaying Oduya I'm up playing Hammer.

 

[thedarkstark]

Everyone signed by Bowman.

 

[Hawkaholic]

Murphy is a 4-5 guy. On a well structured team he could be Oduya and eat minutes carried by a really good partner or be a really good third pairing defenseman. On a bad team he's gonna look bad playing too many minutes.

Maybe 3 years ago, that Murphy could be comparable to Oduya. Not the current Murphy, he's easily more of a 5-6 now.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Can't see the logic of Hawks wanting out of Murphy's 2 years remaining on his deal. They already have cap space and if they got rid of him they'd just need to sign a new RHD at a time the cap is rising, and so player demands will only be higher. Not sure why anyone thinks the Hawks NEED an extra $4.4 million in cap space or what they'd do with that productively.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Can't see the logic of Hawks wanting out of Murphy's 2 years remaining on his deal. They already have cap space and if they got rid of him they'd just need to sign a new RHD at a time the cap is rising, and so player demands will only be higher. Not sure why anyone thinks the Hawks NEED an extra $4.4 million in cap space or what they'd do with that productively.

Agreed. It's an inconsequential cap hit. I could maybe see it if they really wanted to make room for some kids up from the AHL but even then, how young and inexperienced do you want your D core to be? Gotta have some vet presence out there.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Agreed. It's an inconsequential cap hit. I could maybe see it if they really wanted to make room for some kids up from the AHL but even then, how young and inexperienced do you want your D core to be? Gotta have some vet presence out there.

and all their best AHL D are natural LHD, although a couple have pro experience playing off-hand (Kaiser and Allan)

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

At best Murphy is a Rozy #5 on a contender

 

[TheFridge]

Murphy is a 4-5 guy. On a well structured team he could be Oduya and eat minutes carried by a really good partner or be a really good third pairing defenseman. On a bad team he's gonna look bad playing too many minutes.

Oduya could move the puck and would occasionally make a play in the offensive zone. The only thing Murphy can do is chuck the puck out of the zone. He could have played the TvR/Rundblad role though.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Oduya could move the puck and would occasionally make a play in the offensive zone. The only thing Murphy can do is chuck the puck out of the zone. He could have played the TvR/Rundblad role though.

Rundblad could move the puck he was just atrocious defensively. Murphy in a defensive role is fine and he has a decent IQ to know when to get the puck on net.

 

[TheFridge]

Rundblad could move the puck he was just atrocious defensively. Murphy in a defensive role is fine and he has a decent IQ to know when to get the puck on net.

My point was that Murphy could play the role of the player that played to let the gassed out teammates recover.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

My point was that Murphy could play the role of the player that played to let the gassed out teammates recover.

Murphy is so much better than anybody we had in 15 on the bottom pairing if that's your argument.

 

[RoccoF14]

B's don't have C depth to afford moving Zacha

They are going to revisit trading Ullmark

Forget Ullmark. If you really want to stir the pot, you guys should offer sheet Swayman.

You've got the cap space and draft capital to cover the compensatory picks.......

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Forget Ullmark. If you really want to stir the pot, you guys should offer sheet Swayman.

You've got the cap space and draft capital to cover the compensatory picks.......

We're not a goalie away it would be an awful signing.

 

[u2wojo]

Forget Ullmark. If you really want to stir the pot, you guys should offer sheet Swayman.

You've got the cap space and draft capital to cover the compensatory picks.......

Absolutely not. Several years away from any goalie making a difference. The 1st you will give up in the '25 draft has a better chance of being top 5 than it does being outside the top 10. I am not giving up a top 10 pick (in what looks like a top heavy draft of bigger forwards....which we desperately need an infusion of) for a goalie who may not be nearly as good as everyone thinks when you get him in front of the Hawks D instead of the Boston D/team.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Murphy is so much better than anybody we had in 15 on the bottom pairing if that's your argument.

Healthy Rozy even in 2015 > Murphy

I will never understand what people see in Murphy

 

[TheFridge]

Murphy is so much better than anybody we had in 15 on the bottom pairing if that's your argument.

So much better in that he's not Rundblad or a rookie TvR? Sure. Still would have barely played on that team.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Murphy is so much better than anybody we had in 15 on the bottom pairing if that's your argument.

Yeah once Rozsival went down, it was ugly. It's a miracle Keith could play such insane minutes because he was essentially out there every other shift.

 

[hawksfan50]

When EdM was with Mississauga they played him about 40% of the shifts he took as a left shot RD ..so he too could play pn the right side..not that big an issue if you are competent enough ...Murphy is neither competent defensively nor helpful enough offensively...too slow ...too late reacting and only good blocking shoyscbutvawful on recovery of pucks after the block..Therevis now way hevisxactop 4 dman.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Healthy Rozy even in 2015 > Murphy

I will never understand what people see in Murphy

We won in 15 because Rozi got hurt and Q couldn't play him.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

So much better in that he's not Rundblad or a rookie TvR? Sure. Still would have barely played on that team.

Rozi was really bad at the end. Murphy today is a far superior player. TvR wasn't just a rookie he was a hurt rookie Rundblad sucked.

 

[Space umpire]

Rundblad could move the puck he was just atrocious defensively. Murphy in a defensive role is fine and he has a decent IQ to know when to get the puck on net.

You don’t get it. Everyone sucks until they are gone. They then somehow seem to get better.
Look at the trash spewed on Jones and Murphy here.
Look around the NHL guys who were endlessly dumped on by HF Hawk fans play important roles.
The single biggest misunderstanding here is the inability to evaluate talent taking team surroundings into consideration.
Playing with a rookie partner and forwards who are often of AHL level (or Bedard who was terrible in his zone and on draws … possession).
Take all of that and put it vs the opponents top lines and blame them for the result.