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Olympics: Backstrom out final game for banned substance in allergy meds II (warning post 604)

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Brun0 said:
Wow, you believe that. Many specialist saying you would atleast have to eat 5-8 times the amount to reach those levels.

Also tested that diet, fluids etc do not reflekt on how this substance shows in your body.

Wow Sweden really believes these guys?

When finland got caught in skiing whole Finland wanted to know the truh

[mod]
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So.. you have to eat 5-8 times the amount recommended to go from 150 (170?) to 190? That doesn't really seem logical to me. I'm not saying I believe anything, I'm saying that there are "experts" (doctors etc.) saying both things, that one pill CAN and one pill CAN'T and so forth.

"We" are not saying Bäckström is innocent, but there is a difference between systematically taking drugs to enhance performance like your ski team did, they took a BANNED substance while Bäckström "overdosed" on a regulated but permitted drug, and taking an allergy med that has been documented for 7 years (during which time Bäckström has participated in: 2 olympics, 1 World Championship and a handful international games more without being caught).

Thirdly, "we" do want the truth but as of now, there is nothing that proves that Nicklas Bäckström systematically and knowingly cheated (IIHF, NHL and NHLPA are all backing him too - so it's quite a big conspiracy I agree) and took this pill in order to enhance his performance. It's word against word and doctors, as I sad, has come out and spoken on both sides behalf.

What we do know is Bäckström had too much junk in his piss, and got rightfully banned from the finals. Had the case been handled properly he'd missed the game against Finland instead. We have to assume he'll receive the same punishment as Visnovsky did as their cases are very similar (different meds, same crime) and had lower test levels than the slovak.
 
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Here is an interesting read for you guys :

http://isuprod.blob.core.windows.ne...isu-disciplinary-commission-ms-mary-grace.pdf

In this case the skater had :
"Pseudoephedrine at a measured concentration of 183 μg/ml (with a combined standard uncertainty estimated by the laboratory of 11.3 μg/ml; decision limit = 170 μg/ml)."

"Further, taking into account the estimated standard uncertainty the concentration of Pseudoephedrine was less than 15 % above the allowed limit of 150 μg/ml and in this concentration is hardly able to deplore a performance enhancing effect."

"Even if an athlete is aware of the presence of Pseudoephedrine in Allegra D, it is difficult to assess whether its intake leads to a concentration above the limit, especially since it is known that large individual differences can be found in the concentration of Pseudoephedrine in urine after the intake of one dose of the medication."

And the result :

"2. A period of ineligibility of 4 months, beginning on January 15, 2012 and ending on May 14, 2012, is imposed on Mary Grace.
3. Mary Grace’s competitive results obtained from January 14, 2012 to May 14, 2012, included but not limited to her results in the North America/Oceanea Regional Qualifying event for the World Allround Speed Skating Championships in Calgary are disqualified with all the resulting consequences including forfeiture of any medals, points and prices."

Draw your own conclusions.... this document is issued from ISU though, not WADA or IOC , but they seem to follow WADA's recommendations..
 
21 said:
Close to nothing, we are talking about an allergic medicine even if a lot of people from other countries are having different conspiracy theories.
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Nope. We are talking about a player getting caught in the tests for having pseudoephedrine in his system in amount exceeding a limit what's allowed that's based on normal medical purposes dosage.

He and his doctor have explained that it's because of he took a normally allowed dosage of allergy medicine which for some reason has been followed by extraordinary results. Some people with certain expertise have brought forward other explanations. What's the truth is known at this point by very few people.
 
Canuck21t said:
It's unfortunate for Team Sweden to learn about the news so late, but it is utterly pathetic to yell scandal and to say politics are involved. I call that being sore losers. My main reaction would be on the doping allegation instead of concentrating so much on the unfortunate timing. The Swedish hockey management doesn't seem to care if the player is guilty or not, just that the whole situation may have affected the team's performance. Nice try diverting the attention from the main problem.
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A sound comment.
 
If these pills were only as effective as coffee, why does nhl players eat them like breakfest cereals? Or is it that simple as one former Hurricans player says today: "It's superstition, if you've taken a pill and play well that game, you don't want to stop". Please please tell me hockeyplayers don't have that low intelligence...
 
Just read that the decision/sanction will take another two weeks. Here is the google translate of the Swedish Olympic Committee's announcement (sorry if posted):

"The penalty linked to the Olympic is suspension for a match, which has already been implemented, or disqualification. The latter sentence means that Backstrom receives no silver medal".
 
Kharkov said:
Slightly off topic, but too bad that "Sinivalkoinen valhe" aint translated yet. Tells about doping in Finland, Norway and Italy. Very recommended for those who can understand finnish language.
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It was aired last week on SvT here in Sweden, called När hjältarna ljuger (When the heros lie). I missed it though. Will try to find some way to have a look at it.
 
Lempo said:
Nope. We are talking about a player getting caught in the tests for having pseudoephedrine in his system in amount exceeding a limit what's allowed that's based on normal medical purposes dosage.
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This is true. Nothing more to say. We know the outrage in Sweden when russians, austrians, finns or whoever get caught redhanded. Now it was a swede and I must say I'm a bit annoyed by MÃ¥rts and Bousteds 'rage' and 'blaming' . They should ***** up tbh and head off to eat some humble pie.
 
thepoeticgoblin said:
Just read that the decision/sanction will take another two weeks. Here is the google translate of the Swedish Olympic Committee's announcement (sorry if posted):

"The penalty linked to the Olympic is suspension for a match, which has already been implemented, or disqualification. The latter sentence means that Backstrom receives no silver medal".
Click to expand...

That hasn´t been posted before, can you post a link to the annoncement?

So I guess we have to wait for IOC´s official release on Backstrom ruling him out of gold medal game. Team Latvia player Vitaljis Pavlovs test was feb 19th and disqualification decision was published feb 22th (diffrerent substance but also a stimulant, although a zero-tolerance one) www.olympic.org/news/ioc-sanctions-...failing-anti-doping-test-at-sochi-2014/225943.
Backstroms test was feb 19th also, and now they say it takes two weeks? Kind of weird as Visnovsky decision also took only around 4 days to make&publish.

Anyway, It seems like doctors and players haven´t learned a lesson even with previous examples of possible (allegedly) accidental doping. Visnovsky 2010, Backstrom 2014 and there is also Mattias Ohlund case from 2002:
http://translate.google.com/transla...nad-men-ohlund-ar-valkommen-till-os_40054.svd

The results from Ohlund and Visnovsky incidents lead me to believe Bacstrom might not be suspended but only warned. At least if they believe Backstrom and his doctor.
 
FINshark said:
At least if they believe Backstrom and his doctor.
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I wonder if anyone have any knowledge over how exactly they decide if they believe or not the non-intentional explanation? Do they just hold them by hands and look them firmly in the eyes when they give their statements or have they excessive records from the test samples and what was in them and are possibly currently laughing in their beards about the Zyrtec stories because there was no traces whatsoever of antihistamine (speculation!) while pseudoephedrine was over the roof?
 
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Lempo said:
I wonder if anyone have any knowledge over how exactly they decide if they believe or not the non-intentional explanation? Do they just hold them by hands and look them firmly in the eyes when they give their statements or have they excessive records from the test samples and what was in them and are possibly currently laughing in their beards about the Zyrtec stories because there was no traces whatsoever of antihistamine while pseudoephedrine was over the roof?
Click to expand...

Do you have a source for this, or are you just speculating?
 
YWGinYYZ said:
Do you have a source for this, or are you just speculating?
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Was just coming over to emphazise I'm speculating but didn't quite manage in time. So, I speaking completely about a speculative case. Bolding the "possibly" was meant to mean that but I felt it was not enough.
 
Brun0 said:
Wow, you believe that. Many specialist saying you would atleast have to eat 5-8 times the amount to reach those levels.

Also tested that diet, fluids etc do not reflekt on how this substance shows in your body.

Wow Sweden really believes these guys?

When finland got caught in skiing whole Finland wanted to know the truh

[mod]
Click to expand...

Are you really comparing the Lathis doping catastrophe to this? Please say that you do, I dare you.
 
Digging at work today:
Plasma Levels of Pseudoephedrine Following Different Formulations (2013) Hill, Peck, Haller.

N=50
"Plasma concentrations of L(+)pseudoephedrine administered in clinically used dosages were
determined by gas liquid chromatography using a nitrogen sensitive detector. They were measured after
administration of an immediate release formulation given in either a single dose of 180 mg, or three divided doses of 60 mg, and also after administration of two different sustained release preparations containing 180 mg"

"Significant differences (p<0.01) were found between plasma concentrations and rates of urinary excretion of L(+)pseudoephedrine following administration of the different preparations. Peak plasma concentrations and urine secretion were greatest after 180 mg of the immediate release preparation while more sustained elevations of concentration followed administration of slow release pseudoephedrine. "

"As expected, following the immediate release
preparations absorption of the L(+)pseudoephedrine
was rapid, with the highest peak occurring about
2 hours after administration of the 180 mg dose.
The IR 60 x 3 regimen produced three smaller peaks
at 3, 6 and 12 hours."

Would be interesting to know which of them were used. A rapid pseudoephedrine which gives you another concentration and secretion shouldn't be needed if it was to treat his respiratory problems (and dumber to use).
Formulas matter. I wonder if there was some awareness about this.
 
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Lempo said:
I wonder if anyone have any knowledge over how exactly they decide if they believe or not the non-intentional explanation? Do they just hold them by hands and look them firmly in the eyes when they give their statements or have they excessive records from the test samples and what was in them and are possibly currently laughing in their beards about the Zyrtec stories because there was no traces whatsoever of antihistamine (speculation!) while pseudoephedrine was over the roof?
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Because of antihistamine isn't regulated, it makes sense that they haven't reported levels, it isn't a substance they are looking for, so antihistamine levels in the olympics are of no worth because of strict liability rule. It would have been interesting however. But IOK aren't interested in doing detective work, they relay on strict liability. A positive is a positive and the reason for the positive result is not in their interest.
 
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strandvag said:
Because of antihistamine isn't regulated, it makes sense that they haven't reported levels, it isn't a substance they are looking for, so antihistamine levels in the olympics are of no worth because och strict liability rule. It would have been interesting however. But IOK aren't interested in doing detective work, they relay on strict liability. A positive is a positive and the reason for the positive result is not in their interest.
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you would think it would still be in their interest.. a lot more powerful message to potential cheaters when you say "not only will we disqualify you from the games, we will in fact ruin your reputation by showing that your excuse is a lie"

I am not saying that's the case with backstrom but hypothetically if I was the IOC I'd want to be able to send that kind of message
 
No further sanction or ban is needed in this case. The IOC can *&%* up a rope. Backstrom already had his punishment having to sit there and watch that game from the sidelines.
 
Lempo said:
.... about the Zyrtec stories because there was no traces whatsoever of antihistamine (speculation!) while pseudoephedrine was over the roof?
Click to expand...
Maybe for the same reasons the tests showed no traces of artifical sweeteners, nicotine or blueberries; they dont test for non-banned substances.
Antihistamines are used for allergies, but they arent banned substances since they have no performance enhancing effects. Some makes you a bit drowsy, so if there were ever a sleeping contest in the OG they would be banned (speculation).
 
FINshark said:
That hasn´t been posted before, can you post a link to the annoncement?

So I guess we have to wait for IOC´s official release on Backstrom ruling him out of gold medal game. Team Latvia player Vitaljis Pavlovs test was feb 19th and disqualification decision was published feb 22th (diffrerent substance but also a stimulant, although a zero-tolerance one) www.olympic.org/news/ioc-sanctions-...failing-anti-doping-test-at-sochi-2014/225943.
Backstroms test was feb 19th also, and now they say it takes two weeks? Kind of weird as Visnovsky decision also took only around 4 days to make&publish.

Anyway, It seems like doctors and players haven´t learned a lesson even with previous examples of possible (allegedly) accidental doping. Visnovsky 2010, Backstrom 2014 and there is also Mattias Ohlund case from 2002:
http://translate.google.com/transla...nad-men-ohlund-ar-valkommen-till-os_40054.svd

The results from Ohlund and Visnovsky incidents lead me to believe Bacstrom might not be suspended but only warned. At least if they believe Backstrom and his doctor.
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Here you go, the link to the Swedish Olympic Committee's "announcement": http://www.sok.se/nyheter/nyheter/nyheter2009/backstromsbprovpositivt.5.4c8bf49614401860b9d2343.html (in Swedish unfortunately).

I think Bäckström will be given a "stern warning", much like Visnovsky and Öhlund was. He was rightfully absent from the game of his career so the lesson has been taught. Unless they conclusively prove that Nicky did this knowingly and with intent to gain advantage of course, in that case = ban.
 
I am sure this is just an accident by Bäcks and maybe the doctor as well.

Why would he take dope in a game against Slovenia? Bäckström is either completely insane or it was just an accident or something.

Give Bäckström warning from IOC and lets carry on our lives.

Ps. I understand pseudo might be much bigger problem in NHL but thats anotherstory.

And I feel sorry for you, my swedish friends. Honestly!
 
thepoeticgoblin said:
Here you go, the link to the Swedish Olympic Committee's "announcement": http://www.sok.se/nyheter/nyheter/nyheter2009/backstromsbprovpositivt.5.4c8bf49614401860b9d2343.html (in Swedish unfortunately).

I think Bäckström will be given a "stern warning", much like Visnovsky and Öhlund was. He was rightfully absent from the game of his career so the lesson has been taught. Unless they conclusively prove that Nicky did this knowingly and with intent to gain advantage of course, in that case = ban.
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It basically says that it's either a warning (plus the missed final) or disqualification which means that he will not get a silver medal. That is the two options.

Speculation here, I would go with option one (1) above as others have had just a warning without the extra penalty of missing an Olympics Final.
 
strandvag said:
Digging at work today:
Plasma Levels of Pseudoephedrine Following Different Formulations (2013) Hill, Peck, Haller.

.....
Click to expand...

Thanks, quite interesting. What kind of levels in mg/ml were reached, did they go over the WADA limits?
I´m guessing that Zyrtec-D could be counted as a slow release medicine, no?

and what about the other study which in my earlier post I hoped you´d review, strandvag, was there more info about this matter?
 
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