Post-Game Talk: Avs 6 - Jets 2, Avs lead series 2 -1

[cbcwpg]

I think the issue that people have with the Vilardi penalty is that the refs didn't see it. They didn't call it. Obviously he sticked the guy and it was bad. But in my 5 decades of watching hockey I've seen countless examples of missed calls. Dude is bleeding all over the ice and bench, but if they didn't see it they didn't see it. This one felt like they made the call based on the evidence on the ice despite not seeing the infraction. Usually if the linesmen are bringing the call to the refs attention it happens quicker. This one seemed like they looked at the puddle of blood and decided they better just call it. And if you're calling it of course it's a double minor.

Said the exact thing to the peps I was watching with. Yes it was a penalty, yes it was 4 minutes, BUT none of officials on the ice saw it.... that's the issue. As a ref, you can't just randomly hand out a 5 minute penalty so you can review it because you think something happened because someone is bleeding.

 

[Daximus]

Ville makes the team next year.

We might not have many other options if Dillon and DeMelo walk.

Said the exact thing to the peps I was watching with. Yes it was a penalty, yes it was 4 minutes, BUT none of officials on the ice saw it.... that's the issue. As a ref, you can't just randomly hand out a 5 minute penalty so you can review it because you think something happened because someone is bleeding.

That one was weird to me. When was the last time you have ever seen a call get missed but then a penalty handed out in hindsight?

 

[bustamente]

Toffoli and Monahan are not coming out of the lineup and LB is not starting in net, who comes out for either Perfetti and or AJF is up for debate but it wont be the rentals. Now who comes in for Dillon will be interesting.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Daximus]

Would be interesting if we just popped Ville and AJF in for speed and tried to just go barn burner hockey for game 4.

Only time we've beat the Avs so far is playing their game, maybe that should be the play.

 

[ecolad]

Good post - at least IMO.
The only way the Jets have a chance against a team that has more talent, is to out work them - and they are not. They are mainly shell shocked by the Aves speed and skill. The Jets game is all reactionary - and has them running around, chasing. If they don't ramp it up and get on the Aves before they gain our zone, we are done - we don't have the blueline to compete against the Aves.

It was also nice to see a post where the coach isn't blamed for not solving all the problems the Jets are having. It's simple really - the only way the Jets can beat this team, is to out work them - the Aves have ramped up their game and we haven't. The system Bones uses relies on consistent, hard work in all zones - and he's not getting that. If anyone thinks a new system (with our current talent) will be the difference maker against this Aves team, they are dreaming or have an agenda (like getting their player into the lineup). The Aves are a better team than we are - simple as that - you won't beat them by adding anyone on our roster unless the compete level increases (and your 50% rate makes sense). Add marginal talent won't make a difference - the Jets need their team game to show up. Even then, against an Aves team with more skill (who have ramped up their game), we're looking at a long shot unless we leave it all out there and try to frustrate their skill guys.

I agree that making moves that will increase our speed and add hard work to the lineup, are probably the best moves we can make - that might be enough to get the rest of them involved / motivated to get back to what made them successful - it's worth a shot.

Helle at this point is getting killed out there - we are not defending at even close to the level needed to have a chance - and if we expect 37 to save the day, we're dreaming. Not only is it wishful thinking to expect your goaltender to save you when you are being run over, it's not much of a game plan.

The Jets will need to play to their strengths - which is hard work and defensive. Tweaking the lineup of praying for a system that will out skill this team, is not going to happen. Simply stating we need better outlets, or better decision making, or a better PK, or better goaltending, is easy and a waste of time. If they ramp it up to another level, meaning work their asses off, they might have a chance.

And finally, if we take a pile of penalties, we are toast - their skill (especially with the man advantage) is more than we will be able to deal with. The best you can hope for is to take fewer penalties and stem the bleeding.

It is also easy and a waste of time to say that we simply need to work harder. Seems to me we need to work harder and smarter , with a clearer sense of purpose.

You`ve touched upon the key issue imo - the need to get on the Avs in their zone, create pressure and turnovers, and generally prevent the Avs from easily and quickly transitioning through the neutral zone to our end (where we are struggling). But why are we getting such poor results here, unable to set up any of our bread and butter down low cycles and with little sustained zone time? Imo this is partly a matter of working harder but there appears to be a falloff in purpose/plan and discipline as well.

Just to be clear, I`d be the first to say that there are far too many on the team (starting with the core) who just simply fail to show the heart and competitive drive necessary to succeeed in the playoff atmosphere.( ie they don`t leave it all out on the ice in an effort to win). But that`s something fudamental to our guys and probably won`t change from game to game.

 

[bustamente]

As expected Dillon is not on the ice, Barron is also not on the ice

 

[tbcwpg]

Only reason he signed here is because we didn't think we would resign Helle. 100% he is moving on this summer. Likely going to try and ply his craft with Toronto or Edmonton.

Edmonton doesn't need a starter, Skinner has been great since about January onwards.

 

[bustamente]

If LB is going to be a starter in this league he will ply his trade for a team that missed the playoffs, good luck

 

[Royale With Cheese]

I hate when people complain about the refs BUT if you give any Stanley Cup contender 5 PPs in the 3rd period especially in the first 10 mins you are going to lose 99% of the time.
What's weird I thought in the playoffs the refs don't want to decide the game so they let them play. The Vegas series I know only 2 games but there was only 6 penalties called total 3 for each each team and both games the teams had even penalties..
They were letting them play even though Avs should have had some penalties and I was okay with that but all of a sudden you start calling them. I know the high stick deserved it but usually the refs try to even it out which they didn't because Connor was tripped on that play.
Great video showing the missed calls on the Jets.

Holy sheet those are some missed calls. The only one I noticed last night (wasn’t that focused on game) was the one on Scheifele. WTF?

 

[hockeyarena]

Holy sheet those are some missed calls. The only one I noticed last night (wasn’t that focused on game) was the one on Scheifele. WTF?

I saw the pionk one live and immediately wondered how it was any different than pos Hartman on ehlers or the blindside on Crosby that knocked him out for an entire season. Both refs saw those. The nhl is easily the most corrupt professional sports league.

 

[Buffdog]

I fully realize that it's extremely difficult to win the cup - but I'd your team is never in the fight and you feel like there no hope, that's a problem, and that's where I am today.

I guess for me, cheering for the Jets is more about the journey than the destination. I just like being a fan. I'd love if they won a cup, but that's just icing on the cake

Maybe I've just accepted that they may never win one. Plenty of other franchises have never won, and there are even more that haven't won since we've been back in the league. Would you still be a fan if you 100% knew for certain that we'd never get one? I would

 

[BarnabyJones PI]

Ehlers-Scheifele-Vilardi needs to be reunited and I think Connor might actually work with Monahan now the way he’s forechecking. The lines gotta be shuffled and imo you need to get Perfetti in there.

Yes.

The #1 question then become, what do we do with Connor, a player who often needs support from his linemates to excel? Well, let's go to Moneypuck and see which lines he did well on during the regular season...

... and then we find out that the only good Connor line that was together for more than a handful minutes had Ehlers on it. We don't know what to do with him, because we never cared to find out any other options than stapling him to 55 and hoping that it works. We also find out that out of the lines with 100+ minutes spent together, Connor-Scheifele-Vilardi was by far the worst combination we had in terms of xGF%. And then we wonder why we're having problems in this series.

That's the problem.

Kyle Connor has always been miscast with the Jets. When he gets slotted into to being (mostly) a finisher, he regresses to being just that. His passing, and playmaking ability, get secondary treatment. He's more of a Guy Lafleur-lite type (a playmaker who could finish), but he plays down to being a 2024 version of Brian Bellows.

KFC can work with secondary offensive players, but it would work best as long as he's getting as much exposure playing with Morrissey (they're the best pairing).

In situations where he has to be more aggressive, playing with Monahan and Perfetti/Toffoli, he's up to the task at taking the lead. First one in on the forecheck, more aggressive along the boards (in his finessing kind of way that is effective when he's doing it), and most importantly, when he's moving a lot more instead of settling in to a spot. He's done this in year's past too.

Over the past three weeks, he has been more aggressive, but I think a big part of this rejuvination came once he moved to that 2nd line.

It won't happen, but I'd love to see the Jets play to their strength of depth, and move off of what worked for them in the regular season. They can play 3 scoring lines, and the Avs can't.

Lowry/Scheifele/Toffoli
Connor/Monahan/Perfetti
Ehlers/Namestnikov/Vilardi
Niederreiter/X/Appleton

I'm not a fan of Toffoli's style, but it's an absolute waste having KFC playing a Toffoli type of a role on the 1st line. If that's all you need, then slot Toffoli there with Scheifele. Break up the 3rd line for this series, and promote Lowry to the 1st line, to help Scheifele with the heavy lifting. Toffoli is the weak link defensively, and Scheifele can be good/bad in his own end, then Lowry helps out there too. Move Scheifele to the wing on faceoffs in their own zone.

Ehlers has chemistry (IMO) with both players. Most importantly, they both seem to have the awareness (high enough IQ) of playing with and off of Ehlers style of play. It's not really a demotion, because I'd want the three lines to get equal time on the ice 5v5.

Niederreiter is not a 4th line player, and I MUCH prefer him to Toffoli (and a number of other guys), but I'm not putting Lowry on the 4th line the way he's been playing. I'm one of the few that has never had a problem with Appleton this year.

The Jets played listless hockey in the playoffs last year. They're scrambling now, but I still think they're trying. Both teams were giving that 1st game away.

 

[Ponds]

I think the issue that people have with the Vilardi penalty is that the refs didn't see it. They didn't call it. Obviously he sticked the guy and it was bad. But in my 5 decades of watching hockey I've seen countless examples of missed calls. Dude is bleeding all over the ice and bench, but if they didn't see it they didn't see it. This one felt like they made the call based on the evidence on the ice despite not seeing the infraction. Usually if the linesmen are bringing the call to the refs attention it happens quicker. This one seemed like they looked at the puddle of blood and decided they better just call it. And if you're calling it of course it's a double minor.

I've watched hockey for many years now, at times more intently than others, but I genuinely do not remember a game where the refs reviewed a play to call a penalty. Not saying this in a snarky way - if anyone has an example of this, I'd sincerely like to know. As far as I'm concerned, it's 110% game management.

Call me what you want, but I'm not above questioning the integrity of a league that values profit (which includes American viewership) over everything else. I believe the Jets were 37-1-1 this year heading into the 3rd period with a lead, not like a quick message couldn't be sent to the officials to sort that pesky stat out.

Cheers to @raideralex99 for posting that compilation of the shite the refs turned their heads to all night, when it was Colorado dishing it out. To me, a clear standard had been set for what they were willing to tolerate. So call the game consistently from start to finish. Don't pick and choose when to crack down, and seemingly favor a specific team when doing it. If the argument can be made that the Jets were undisciplined, which it can, then it can also be made about the Avalanche. Maybe even more so. Except only one team was handled a certain way. That's the problem I have rn, and a lot of other people have too.

To reiterate what I said in my post game rant, it might not have been the prettiest hockey but the Jets had a 2-1 lead going into the final period. You don't need to play beautiful hockey to grind out playoff wins, especially away. If they go into that period and take the L because they flat out suck, so be it. Might not be fun to come to terms with, but I can live with that.

What I don't jive with is being done by a tilted playing surface. Which is what I believe the case was last night.

 

[LowLefty]

It is also easy and a waste of time to say that we simply need to work harder. Seems to me we need to work harder and smarter , with a clearer sense of purpose.

You`ve touched upon the key issue imo - the need to get on the Avs in their zone, create pressure and turnovers, and generally prevent the Avs from easily and quickly transitioning through the neutral zone to our end (where we are struggling). But why are we getting such poor results here, unable to set up any of our bread and butter down low cycles and with little sustained zone time? Imo this is partly a matter of working harder but there appears to be a falloff in purpose/plan and discipline as well.

Just to be clear, I`d be the first to say that there are far too many on the team (starting with the core) who just simply fail to show the heart and competitive drive necessary to succeeed in the playoff atmosphere.( ie they don`t leave it all out on the ice in an effort to win). But that`s something fudamental to our guys and probably won`t change from game to game.

Not really anything funny about working hard - it's probably the part of the game that is hardest to get pro's to buy into.
If this view is too simplistic, that fine - but IMO, it's the major problem that trumps all else - and was demonstrated during the reg season where we had more jump and more success.

I don't assume this is the only issue - but I don't bother debating why so and so in not in the lineup or if we made game adjustments to solve problems. I honestly don't think there is an adjustment significant enough to impact the result - unless there is a huge improvement with the speed and drive they bring. Actually, I think if you bring that, most of the other issues go away.

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Mighty Makar]

Good to hear!

 

[gojetsgo]

 

[Buffdog]

I'm gonna not be too upset about the Vilardi call simply because had the tables been turned, that's what I would have wanted/expected to be done

However, the rinky-dink tripping calls on Appleton (led to a PP goal) and Gus (led to a 5 on 3) are what upset me. If you're not gonna give Girard an extra two minutes because you don't want to dish out a 5 on 3 to us (to avoid appearing like you're putting your finger in the scale), then you can't make those calls either. Again, if they let those two tripping call on us go, then I wouldn't be bitching about any non-calls on the Avs

If you're gonna let 'em play, you gotta let 'em play. You can't only let one team play

 

[Do or Die]

Avs were supposed to have shaky D and goaltending. Yet Colorado is getting easy zone exit, after zone exit.....allowing their forwards to blow through the neutral zone at top speed with the greatest of ease. That is, when we are not scuffling in our own end.......

To garner 108 points, Jennings Trophy, and Vezina......and then look like this, in playoffs is honestly infuriating.....

 

[Daximus]

Edmonton doesn't need a starter, Skinner has been great since about January onwards.

He's been okay certainly one of the weaker points of the team still.

 

[robertocarlos]

AJF makes the Jets look better. He's deadly (handsome).

Avs were supposed to have shaky D and goaltending. Yet Colorado is getting easy zone exit, after zone exit.....allowing their forwards to blow through the neutral zone at top speed with the greatest of ease. That is, when we are not scuffling in our own end.......

To garner 108 points, Jennings Trophy, and Vezina......and then look like this, in playoffs is honestly infuriating.....

I swear, I thought they had Makar and then no one.

 

[Inanna]

AJF makes the Jets look better. He's deadly (handsome).

Yes, I wish I'd saved that poolside photo of him someone posted. Unlike last night, when I was too excited to watch much of the game, I definitely will be watching tomorrow afternoon. And everyone can skip the snide comments about making it home for 1 pm.

 

[Daximus]

Avs were supposed to have shaky D and goaltending. Yet Colorado is getting easy zone exit, after zone exit.....allowing their forwards to blow through the neutral zone at top speed with the greatest of ease. That is, when we are not scuffling in our own end.......

To garner 108 points, Jennings Trophy, and Vezina......and then look like this, in playoffs is honestly infuriating.....

Our forecheck really isn't pressing all that hard. We get beat to nearly every puck and when we don't we end up getting pasted into the board. Their D look massively different from every other game we played against them this year. They flipped a switch so far, we haven't.

 

[robertocarlos]

Lowry/Scheifele/Toffoli
Connor/Monahan/Perfetti
Ehlers/Namestnikov/Vilardi
Niederreiter/X/Appleton

X is Gus. The Jets problem is they have too many of the same players. Two or three of them have to go.