Post-Game Talk: Avs 5 - Jets 2, Series tied at 1

[DRW204]

Just ban the whiteout at home

 

[surixon]

The whiteout is great and should continue in perpetuity.......but it certainly doesn't help us win games. The numbers don't lie.

Honestly if they can't handle a highly energetic and enthusiatic crowd then it's on them to figure out what they need to do to improve their performance.

 

[Ggg99]

We have been thoroughly outplayed in both games and the only reason that we are tied 1-1 is because our goaltending has been better than theirs lol.

Helle has not been great, but giving up on your Vezina winner when you are down 2-1 (if we lose) is a bit crazy. Brossoit is a good backup, that's it. Betting on the high end of Hellebuyck is a much smarter bet.

Go ask the Avs if they would rather see Brossoit or Helle in net.

Good points. Your last sentence is the real litmus test.

Helly's ceiling is Vezina goalie, arguably best goalie on the planet.
LB's ceiling is really, really good back-up.

The odds are that Helly plays to his ceiling again. He usually does.

Loyalty is a priority for this organization. Hard to imagine them not letting Helly play.

 

[Inanna]

So I was poking around this morning and found if you go to HF Central Division there's a directory called Utah NHL Team. And if you go into that folder, there's a thread at the top called Introduce Yourself Here. Just out of curiosity, I went in there and started scanning through it.

Post #46 is kind of interesting and its closing lines totally cracked me up.

 

[LowLefty]

It adds zero to this thread but it made me feel better just report it and I will delete it but it made me feel better so my day got off to a good start

There is a lot of stupidity going on in here right now. If you watched the game the biggest issues are our ability to slow down the transition in the neutral zone and not be able to maintain a cycle game for lengths of time. Colorado game plan is pretty simple move the puck with speed. Cycle down low get it back to the point and crowd the net and look for some rebounds.

We haven't be able to turn this series into a slug fest and we have fallen right into the Avs game style and changing goalies etc. isn't going to matter when you allow so many shots, high danger chances and you are constantly on the back foot. We took the lead and killed of that penalty and then invited the Avs to come at us. Its just really bad that we could have killed that game off with some pressure and we decided to sit back and let a team that can skate you in to the ground come at you. Yes that 3rd goal was bad and all but so what? That 4th goal was the back breaker and it should never happen.

Changing your goalie that got you here that you signed for 8 f***ing years and you want to replace him after one game....f*** off already(ps I don't me you but you know what I mean)

So it's not the "thread" that set you off - it's sounds like it's more about the Pull Helle content.
I agree

 

[tbcwpg]

I am sure that being a mod can be very trying, but why are you so angry and aggressive? Maybe take a breather or smoke a joint or something, I think you're taking life too seriously at the moment.

People are allowed to have different opinions and if making ridiculous "suggestions" is worthy of "f*** off and die" type responses from MODS, then maybe the whole forum should be shut down because wildly varying opinions and crazy hot takes seems to me the main point of a forum like this.

People say that about the players all the time.

In bed, updating my Facebook.

No way you're under 30 if you're still on Facebook.

 

[bumblebeeman]

Regular season from 19/20 to 23/24, minimum 20 games played

GAA of 2.61 which is 18th

SV% of .918 which is 8th

Playoffs from 19/20 to 23/24, minimum 10 games played

GAA of 2.98 which is 25th

SV% of .908 which is 24th

Really not trying to win a battle here or even advocate for LB, but we're being disingenuous if we think that Helle is playing to his regular season standard in the playoffs. If he plays at the level we know he can play at in the regular season, we probably win game 1 convincingly and win game 2 outright. And I am aware that we as a team have not helped him much these last 2 games.

Why did you not include Helle's best and 3rd best playoff appearances? He has played 19 playoff games in the time frame you posted. All he needs to do is put of a few strong games and his stats will change drastically, it is such a small sample size. Already just playoff career sample size is probably too small to compare in any meaningful way (42 gp to 505 gp regular season).

 

[kylbaz]

Good points. Your last sentence is the real litmus test.

Helly's ceiling is Vezina goalie, arguably best goalie on the planet.
LB's ceiling is really, really good back-up.

The odds are that Helly plays to his ceiling again. He usually does.

Loyalty is a priority for this organization. Hard to imagine them not letting Helly play.

Based on what?

I have never been a huge Helle fan. Always felt he lets the soft one in, especially when we're putting on pressure, it's like he relaxes and doesn't keep his guard up. I said the same about his past playoff experiences. Never could steal a game or two when we really needed it, good but never great.
However over the past couple regular seasons he has changed my view as he has played great. I just hope he can do better than what he has shown.

Personally I'd go with Helle next game and if he gives up 4 or more, I would go with Brossoit in the fourth if we lose.

 

[raideralex99]

So I was poking around this morning and found if you go to HF Central Division there's a directory called Utah NHL Team. And if you go into that folder, there's a thread at the top called Introduce Yourself Here. Just out of curiosity, I went in there and started scanning through it.

Post #46 is kind of interesting and its closing lines totally cracked me up.

Interesting ... who is stocking who.

 

[surixon]

Based on what?

I have never been a huge Helle fan. Always felt he lets the soft one in, especially when we're putting on pressure, it's like he relaxes and doesn't keep his guard up. I said the same about his past playoff experiences. Never could steal a game or two when we really needed it, good but never great.
However over the past couple regular seasons he has changed my view as he has played great. I just hope he can do better than what he has shown.

Personally I'd go with Helle next game and if he gives up 4 or more, I would go with Brossoit in the fourth if we lose.

I mean LB is 31 and been in the league almost a decade. He has a long track record of being a good backup, but hasn't ever been able to carve out a starting role anywhere. Given the above I think it's fairly likely he is what he is at this point on his career.

 

[DRW204]

Why did you not include Helle's best and 3rd best playoff appearances? He has played 19 playoff games in the time frame you posted. All he needs to do is put of a few strong games and his stats will change drastically, it is such a small sample size. Already just playoff career sample size is probably too small to compare in any meaningful way (42 gp to 505 gp regular season).

For projecting yeah you're not going to base much on a few games. But based on what has actually happened he has not been as great as he customarily is in the regular season. A few games may change overall sv% (better or worse) but it doesn't take away the fact he hasn't been saving the puck way above the rest of the PO-goalies over the past few years like he is in the regular season.

 

[kylbaz]

I mean LB is 31 and been in the league almost a decade. He has a long track record of being a good backup, but hasn't ever been able to carve out a starting role anywhere. Given the above I think it's fairly likely he is what he is at this point on his career.

Honestly asking, has he had a chance to be a starter though?
I bet you could say the same about Tim Thomas when he was 30.
I'm going to guess someone will take a chance on him next year.

 

[MardyBum]

There could be fixes, but judging from the regular season Rick won't make the D adjustments until it's too late. Pionk needs to sit, Stanley needs to sit, and Samberg needs to go back to the left or probably sit as well.

The whole team needs to play better, but the inability of the D to exit the zone cleanly with possession or through a pass and just giving it back to Colorado is the #1 issue.

I'll start worrying about goalies when the Jets deserve to win a game ignoring goalies.

 

[DRW204]

Based on what?

I have never been a huge Helle fan. Always felt he lets the soft one in, especially when we're putting on pressure, it's like he relaxes and doesn't keep his guard up. I said the same about his past playoff experiences. Never could steal a game or two when we really needed it, good but never great.
However over the past couple regular seasons he has changed my view as he has played great. I just hope he can do better than what he has shown.

Personally I'd go with Helle next game and if he gives up 4 or more, I would go with Brossoit in the fourth if we lose.

Based on his career?

Honestly asking, has he had a chance to be a starter though?
I bet you could say the same about Tim Thomas when he was 30.
I'm going to guess someone will take a chance on him next year.

How many back ups or no name/journeyman goalies turned into Tim Thomas, vs not?

Brossoit has had seasons as a backup comparable to this year and still doesn't seem to get traction as a starter.

 

[surixon]

Honestly asking, has he had a chance to be a starter though?
I bet you could say the same about Tim Thomas when he was 30.
I'm going to guess someone will take a chance on him next year.

Not sure. I think Vegas brought him in to platoon but he couldn't stay healthy.

You could be correct and he is able to do it in his 30's but very few goalies make it as starters following that type of trajectory.

 

[kylbaz]

Based on his career?

How many back ups or no name/journeyman goalies turned into Tim Thomas, vs not?

Brossoit has had seasons as a backup comparable to this year and still doesn't seem to get traction as a starter.

Not sure. I think Vegas brought him in to platoon but he couldn't stay healthy.

You could be correct and he is able to do it in his 30's but very few goalies make it as starters following that type of trajectory.

Guess I just don't think it's fair to peg his ceiling without having a chance. Sure odds aren't high but also hasn't really been given a chance.

 

[raideralex99]

This bench Hellebuyck stuff is funny.
Seriously if you think Hellebuyck is the reason the Jets lost you need to give your head a shake.
First of all you give up 46 shots to the highest scoring team in the league you are not going to win the majority of the time ... its a team effort.
Just look at the Stars the 2nd highest scoring team in the west .... only scored 1 goal yesterday. Five shots on goal in the 2nd period 5 shots in the 3rd ... they went over 10 minutes without a shot on goal in the second.
I think going on the road is going to help and hopefully the team can get back to play Jets hockey.

 

[Flair Hay]

Being a Canucks fan during the Jets absense the discussion around benching a top 5 goaltender is definitely one that is... controversial.

It's early in the series and no question there are a couple that Helle wants back. And the team needs to do a much, much better job of driving play. More specifically, getting the puck out of our own end.

Helle has always played his best after a loss over the years. And we haven't been coming off one since March. I think it's too early, but make no mistake the thought is crossing Bowness's mind, even if he himself thinks it is silly

 

[Atoyot]

There could be fixes, but judging from the regular season Rick won't make the D adjustments until it's too late. Pionk needs to sit, Stanley needs to sit, and Samberg needs to go back to the left or probably sit as well.

The whole team needs to play better, but the inability of the D to exit the zone cleanly with possession or through a pass and just giving it back to Colorado is the #1 issue.

I'll start worrying about goalies when the Jets deserve to win a game ignoring goalies.

I actually thought Pionk was fantastic in the 1st period last game, good enough for the rest of the game.

The Stanley thing bothers me because it's so strange to wait until the final few games of the season to throw him in and then run with it. Samberg has made some panic plays that have cost us and I wonder how much of that is just from his partner not being where Samberg expects him to be. That's not saying anything about Stanley and how he's playing, just that the familiarity may not be there in addition to playing in a new spot and that it could explain some of Samberg's gaffes. Him and Schmidt were always so in sync in the defensive zone.

 

[Channelcat]

I actually thought Pionk was fantastic in the 1st period last game, good enough for the rest of the game.

The Stanley thing bothers me because it's so strange to wait until the final few games of the season to throw him in and then run with it. Samberg has made some panic plays that have cost us and I wonder how much of that is just from his partner not being where Samberg expects him to be. That's not saying anything about Stanley and how he's playing, just that the familiarity may not be there in addition to playing in a new spot and that it could explain some of Samberg's gaffes. Him and Schmidt were always so in sync in the defensive zone.

If people watched Pionk on iso for an entire game, they would probably have a very different impression of him. As for Stan, I suspect they didn't want to mess with that Schmidt/Samberg pairing as they had been very good. I'd say they had slipped a bit after the new year, or maybe Schmidt is not 100%.

 

[Weezeric]

There could be fixes, but judging from the regular season Rick won't make the D adjustments until it's too late. Pionk needs to sit, Stanley needs to sit, and Samberg needs to go back to the left or probably sit as well.

The whole team needs to play better, but the inability of the D to exit the zone cleanly with possession or through a pass and just giving it back to Colorado is the #1 issue.

I'll start worrying about goalies when the Jets deserve to win a game ignoring goalies.

Judging by the regular season? You mean this season, where they were the best defensive team in the league?

Why should you ignore goalies? The Jets best player is a goalie. That’s like saying talk to me when the Avs win, ignoring MacKinnon…

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

It adds zero to this thread but it made me feel better just report it and I will delete it but it made me feel better so my day got off to a good start

There is a lot of stupidity going on in here right now. If you watched the game the biggest issues are our ability to slow down the transition in the neutral zone and not be able to maintain a cycle game for lengths of time. Colorado game plan is pretty simple move the puck with speed. Cycle down low get it back to the point and crowd the net and look for some rebounds.

We haven't be able to turn this series into a slug fest and we have fallen right into the Avs game style and changing goalies etc. isn't going to matter when you allow so many shots, high danger chances and you are constantly on the back foot. We took the lead and killed of that penalty and then invited the Avs to come at us. Its just really bad that we could have killed that game off with some pressure and we decided to sit back and let a team that can skate you in to the ground come at you. Yes that 3rd goal was bad and all but so what? That 4th goal was the back breaker and it should never happen.

Changing your goalie that got you here that you signed for 8 f***ing years and you want to replace him after one game....f*** off already(ps I don't me you but you know what I mean)

That’s fair.

Helle was also not good in the game though. Goals 3 and 4 were bad. The team needed a save for goal 4.

That being said I do not support pulling him.

If we lose game 3 and he is trash again - I am not against starting LB for game 4 tho and starting Helle regardless of game 4 outcome in game 5.

Sitting a game might give him the needed fire in the belly.

 

[BoneDocUK]

If people watched Pionk on iso for an entire game, they would probably have a very different impression of him. As for Stan, I suspect they didn't want to mess with that Schmidt/Samberg pairing as they had been very good. I'd say they had slipped a bit after the new year, or maybe Schmidt is not 100%.

I've watched Pionk that way before, though I didn't do it on Tuesday or Game 1. Doesn't change my opinion that:

1) When he's playing a calmer, more focused game, he can be hugely effective as a physical, mobile D who can PK, PP, make plays and add points as (often) the first D in. Also a great motor and unquestionable work effort.

2) When he's off that game, he's prone to poor reads, pointless penalties, missed clearances at a high rate and panic turnovers that can plunge a whole shift into chaos with his unpredictability and blinkered play. He tries hard, always.

3) Some years -- and some playoffs -- we've seen way more of Effective Pionk, and that can be a gamechanger. For 2 seasons now, we've seen way more of Chaos Pionk. And yet, not once has he been benched in order to reset his game, and only rarely has he left the top 4.

I love Effective Pionk -- that guy is a super-useful D who can defend, transition and chip in some offence whilst making life miserable for other teams and being very, very hard to play against. If we see more of that kind of play, the Jets have a real shot at a run. Otherwise, we have 1 D who can exit with possession and at least 2 D who play panic hockey when pressured. That's a major issue with a Bones system and isn't going to carry us far.

Just MHO.

 

[MardyBum]

Judging by the regular season? You mean this season, where they were the best defensive team in the league?

Why should you ignore goalies? The Jets best player is a goalie. That’s like saying talk to me when the Avs win, ignoring MacKinnon…

They weren't the best defensive team in the league. They had the best goalie duo and were a very solid defensive team, and a lot of that defensive prowess fell off in the second half of the season. Or the Jets were an elite defensive team carrying Hellebuyck .

The Avs had every right to be furious with Georgi, they outplayed the Jets and lost because of goaltending. The Avs outplayed the Jets in game 2, and Georgiev was fine.

You shouldn't ignore goalies, but first and foremost the team needs to play well. You can't criticize the goalie for not stealing a game you didn't deserve to win. The Jets have been bad as a team. Hellebuyck was better in the regular season, the Jets have also been MUCH better in the regular season.

Goaltending is just different. Garret spoke to it recently on skates and plates (going off the top of the dome here) and he said something akin to there was a study of goalies where they compared high end NHL goalies to AHL/NHL tweeners, and by performances you'd expect the tweener to outperform the high end NHLer something like 2/10 games.

He followed it up with "how often do you expect Morgan Barron to outperform Connor McDavid" . Goalies are volatile and the separation is really not that huge compared to other positions.

 

[Channelcat]

I've watched Pionk that way before, though I didn't do it on Tuesday or Game 1. Doesn't change my opinion that:

1) When he's playing a calmer, more focused game, he can be hugely effective as a physical, mobile D who can PK, PP, make plays and add points as (often) the first D in. Also a great motor and unquestionable work effort.

2) When he's off that game, he's prone to poor reads, pointless penalties, missed clearances at a high rate and panic turnovers that can plunge a whole shift into chaos with his unpredictability and blinkered play. He tries hard, always.

3) Some years -- and some playoffs -- we've seen way more of Effective Pionk, and that can be a gamechanger. For 2 seasons now, we've seen way more of Chaos Pionk. And yet, not once has he been benched in order to reset his game, and only rarely has he left the top 4.

I love Effective Pionk -- that guy is a super-useful D who can chip in some offence whilst making life miserable for other teams and being very, very hard to play against. If we see more of that kind of play, the Jets have a real shot at a run. Otherwise, we have 1 D who can exit with possession and at least 2 D who play panic hockey when pressured. That's a major issue with a Bones system and isn't going to carry us far.

Just MHO.

Just to be clear, I'm suggesting that he is a very effective defenseman (Mostly)