Post-Game Talk: Avs 5 - Jets 1, Avs lead series 3-1

[JetsUK]

OK, I think I've identified my current struggle.

The rationalist angry fan in me suggests that the Jets lose game 5 in epic fashion.

The hopeful fanatic in me suggests the Jets struggle and push this to game 7 and win in the first OT at 17' with Ehlers getting the game winning goal.

Where do you fit?

a. rationalist angry mofo
b. hopeful fanatic swine
c. both, depends how much coffee/cilantro I've ingested

Gotta be C.

In my years of fandom, following exclusively doomed teams, there's always hope until all hope is gone.

 

[Do or Die]

I have nothing to offer but blood, tears, sweat and gin....

 

[WolfHouse]

OK, coach... what's YOUR plan?

Be specific

Here's what I'd try

Connor-monahan-scheif
Ehlers-nino-toffoli
iafallo-lowry-apples
Ajf-gus-perfetti

You now have speed on each line and you split up connor-scheif circle jerk
Monahan wins draws and crashes the net, nino crashes the net, etc...
Get back to 2-1-2 which is actually the 1-2 across our blue line
Roll all four lines - line matching didn't work and focus on puck support - always two guys swarming the puck outside your zone

Jomo-demelo
Samberg-schmidt
Capo-miller

Bench pionk - he's in over his head
Engage Schmidt and jomo and make sure forwards aren't cheating - get the D shooting and combine that with our Cs crashing the net

If anything you match samberg-schmidt with macK and try to get jomo scoring

All five forwards collapse in the slot if there's avs pressure and send two out at a time to pressure the puck carrier

Get samberg or Lowry to really hit macK in the first ten mins...

Focus on zone D - stop chasing the puck behind the net... clear netfront

But I don't think scheif is in the mood to listen and that trickles down thru the team... same way the puzzling D deployment must leave guys confused

 

[DRW204]

10 games in the last 2 years is not a chance.

I fully recognize that he might not turn out, but 10 games in 2 years ain't enough to prove that. Also, are the Jets the best ones? How is our track record with defensemen over the last 13 years, we developed Morrissey and Trouba and that's about it? Samberg too I guess is decent, nothing to write home about.

I trust the Jets with defensemen about as far as I can throw em.

so if 10-games in 2 years is not a chance, why is it ok to conclude he is going to help the Jets win and in in all these areas as the OP suggested. the team is getting trounced and thoroughly outplayed, heinola is supposedly the secret sauce for this team turning it around? based on...?

yet if someone like myself has a bit of push-back on that given how he has actually performed in the NHL, & how the team doesn't view him as a good-enough piece (based on years of data, watching him play, etc) it's all of a sudden "oh how do you know."

i agree the chances have been minimal. that makes every string of games he does get important to play really well, which i don't think he has. his most impressive stint was still 19-20 to me & gave me the most hope. that's 5 years ago now. this season ofc he didn't play given the injury and the Jets were a v good team. they could have spelled him games down the stretch imo, but really he was not ever going to be on the PO roster. last year for instance, his play was ok for a couple games then got really bad, how do you continue to play him when you're trying to win and make the POs and he's bleeding GA? for someone that the OP concluded that would help in transition, positional play etc. in the games he has played he bleeds goals-against and overall outshot/chanced. if that was stanley with that level of play people would be an uproar about it.

yea the track record with defenseman is not good. they need to acquire or draft and develop (not sure if it's a prospect, or development thing) better prospects than guys like heinola, stanley, or the rest of the non-NHLers, and find upgrades over Pionk.

 

[MardyBum]

10 games averaging 13 minutes a night in the last 2 years is not a chance.

I fully recognize that he might not turn out, but 10 games in 2 years ain't enough to prove that. Also, are the Jets the best ones? How is our track record with defensemen over the last 13 years, we developed Morrissey and Trouba and that's about it? Samberg too I guess is decent, nothing to write home about.

I trust the Jets with defensemen about as far as I can throw em.

One top 6 C developed in 13 years, two top 4 dmen developed in 13 years(Three if you count Chia who played like one for a minute before turning back into a pumpkin). All top 15 picks.

The Jets being the arbiter of what is an NHL player is certainly a take.

Conservative and cowardly is how I'd describe their approach.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

so if 10-games in 2 years is not a chance, why is it ok to conclude he is going to help the Jets win and in in all these areas as the OP suggested. the team is getting trounced and thoroughly outplayed, heinola is supposedly the secret sauce for this team turning it around? based on...?

yet if someone like myself has a bit of push-back on that given how he has actually performed in the NHL, & how the team doesn't view him as a good-enough piece (based on years of data, watching him play, etc) it's all of a sudden "oh how do you know."

i agree the chances have been minimal. that makes every string of games he does get important to play really well, which i don't think he has. his most impressive stint was still 19-20 to me & gave me the most hope. that's 5 years ago now. this season ofc he didn't play given the injury and the Jets were a v good team. they could have spelled him games down the stretch imo, but really he was not going to be on the PO roster. last year for instance, his play was ok for a couple games then got really bad, how do you continue to play him when you're trying to win and make the POs and he's bleeding GA? for someone that the OP concluded that would help in transition, positional play etc. in the games he has played he bleeds goals-against and overall outshot/chanced. if that was stanley with that level of play people would be an uproar about it.

yea the track record with defenseman is not good. they need to acquire or draft better better prospects than heinola, stanley, niku, and the rest of the non-NHLers and find upgrades over pionk.

I am certainly not suggesting playing him in this series or anything, I don't want us going down that path.

In 10 game samples playing 13 minutes a night I really don't think you can draw any type of conclusions from. Especially when that is two years ago. The Jets need to see the bigger picture, giving prospects a chance to learn and fail and get better will help the team in the long run. Heinola was at least a dominant AHL player, Stanley has never been dominant in any league.

 

[Buffdog]

One top 6 C developed in 13 years, two top 4 dmen developed in 13 years(Three if you count Chia who played like one for a minute before turning back into a pumpkin). All top 15 picks.

The Jets being the arbiter of what is an NHL player is certainly a take.

Conservative and cowardly is how I'd describe their approach.

So basically they're 100% for developig their top-15 picks

Go back and look at the % of guys picked in the later 1st round that go onto being top 6/top pair guys. Jets aren't any worse than most teams

 

[WolfHouse]

One top 6 C developed in 13 years, two top 4 dmen developed in 13 years(Three if you count Chia who played like one for a minute before turning back into a pumpkin). All top 15 picks.

The Jets being the arbiter of what is an NHL player is certainly a take.

Conservative and cowardly is how I'd describe their approach.

Jets have an outdated approach to D development... dmen are maturing a lot faster than they used to and the Jets have opted to play slug vets instead or double down on Stan...

We are no worse off if our d core was
Jomo-kova
Samberg-heinola
Capo-chisholm

In fact we have an extra 12 million in cap space... and our d probably plays within their limits - ie following the system

Instead we are waiting for Salo to be a hail Mary.... so much for draft and develop

 

[MardyBum]

So basically they're 100% for developig their top-15 picks

Go back and look at the % of guys picked in the later 1st round that go onto being top 6/top pair guys. Jets aren't any worse than most teams

Laine? They sure developed him right out of town playing him behind a leader they bought out cause he couldn't lead

It's not about hitting the high 1sts, it's developing and putting the rest of the picks into spots to succeed, which they've sucked at. They can develop role players, but are seemingly unable to develop any of their other picks into important pieces, even if those players have skills that could put them in those spots. They never seem to trust them.

Cole Perfetti went from "We'll give him a game or two at C but he's too small" to the wing to the f***ing press box for an AHL player they offered for free on waivers . Elite development, can't trust young players, just look at Dallas and Colorado!

 

[WolfHouse]

Laine? They sure developed him right out of town playing him behind a leader they bought out cause he couldn't lead

It's not about hitting the high 1sts, it's developing and putting the rest of the picks into spots to succeed, which they've sucked at. They can develop role players, but are seemingly unable to develop any of their other picks into important pieces, even if those players have skills that could put them in those spots. They never seem to trust them.

Cole Perfetti went from "We'll give him a game or two at C but he's too small" to the wing to the f***ing press box for an AHL player they offered for free on waivers . Elite development, can't trust young players, just look at Dallas and Colorado!

The Jets could have developed copp as our 2c and offered a decent 'overpay'... instead we cycle through varying versions of copp that never quite play as well as he did here

Anyone think roslovic at rw would be worse than toffoli or Kevin Hayes?

 

[AlphaLackey]

This is really obvious as to why we aren't winning.

The AVS top players are far far better than ours. Plain and simple, no other explanation.

MacKinnon, Rantanen and Makar probably go to the Hall of Fame one day. Our guys not so much.

The Avs top 3 remind me of Coffey, Messier and Kurri in their prime.

We look so much slower than Colorado. Doesn't matter what game plan you have when your always a step behind.

I really loved this season though. I love Lowry as the captain and Morrissey is fantastic.

I don't by the fraud talk and I don't see a 110 point team getting dismantled nor should it be. We

need a speed and youth injection. I want to see Heinola,Lambert and Perfetti all the time. We are

going to need more speed on defence. It's going to be a tough summer for sure.

On the other hand, our top player was so much better than their equivalent player, that there's no reason to think we couldn't have made a series out of it. Most pundits had it about even, the books had us as bare underdogs for a reason. And not that Hellebuyck has been bad but they've gone to the well too often with him.

 

[DRW204]

I am certainly not suggesting playing him in this series or anything, I don't want us going down that path.

In 10 game samples playing 13 minutes a night I really don't think you can draw any type of conclusions from. Especially when that is two years ago. The Jets need to see the bigger picture, giving prospects a chance to learn and fail and get better will help the team in the long run. Heinola was at least a dominant AHL player, Stanley has never been dominant in any league.

so not sure why exactly you're coming at me. the OP off the same set of NHL gp, said Heinola would do all these exemplary things that helps the Jets be better which i disagreed with, & all of a sudden you appeared.

if it's to small of a GP why are all these crazy good things Heinola will allegedly do, and all these crazy improvements he'd make to the team not being questioned as hard as someone who may disagree with it? in the games he's played in the NHL he certainly has not performed well overall & the team does not seem to have confidence in what he has shown.

2017-2019 Niku was ranked ahead of Stanley and 19-'21 Heinola ahead of Samberg in HF's rankings. maybe just maybe AHL stats or play isn't guaranteed for great NHL play.

 

[surixon]

This is what I'd do:

Fly Mark Vilardi - This line excelled for a time
KC Monohan Perfetti - This kine sparked us out of our last loosing streak
Nino Lowry Appelton - They have largely done their job against Mack.
Iafallo Gus Toffoli

 

[Buffdog]

Laine? They sure developed him right out of town playing him behind a leader they bought out cause he couldn't lead

It's not about hitting the high 1sts, it's developing and putting the rest of the picks into spots to succeed, which they've sucked at. They can develop role players, but are seemingly unable to develop any of their other picks into important pieces, even if those players have skills that could put them in those spots. They never seem to trust them.

Cole Perfetti went from "We'll give him a game or two at C but he's too small" to the wing to the f***ing press box for an AHL player they offered for free on waivers . Elite development, can't trust young players, just look at Dallas and Colorado!

I must have missed the part of the season where Stankoven went 23 games without no goals and 3 assists. Cole played himself into the pressbox, unfortunately

Same can be said of Ville in past years (I think he was penciled in to start the season)

They tried with Laine. He was uncoachable

I think that Lambert, McG and Sol have top 6/top 4 upside. If they fumble all of them, I'll come around and agee with you

Not all players have top end potential, including the ones you think the Jets "mishandled". That talent level is extremely rare

 

[raideralex99]

This is what I'd do:

Fly Mark Vilardi - This line excelled for a time
KC Monohan Perfetti - This kine sparked us out of our last loosing streak
Nino Lowry Appelton - They have largely done their job against Mack.
Iafallo Gus Toffoli

You can mix and match any line you want and they will still do nothing if your D men can’t get the puck to them.
Avs exposed the Jets defense just send 2 forecheckers and they will cough up the puck.
Morrissey is the only defenceman the Jets have that I would consider a top 4 on a contender.

 

[MardyBum]

The Jets could have developed copp as our 2c and offered a decent 'overpay'... instead we cycle through varying versions of copp that never quite play as well as he did here

Anyone think roslovic at rw would be worse than toffoli or Kevin Hayes?

They put him there a couple of times, but again were so quick to move him out for other options, so scared of making a bold move.

 

[surixon]

They put him there a couple of times, but again were so quick to move him out for other options, so scared of making a bold move.

Yup. They flat out need to stick to the plans they start. You need to see things through.

I am very interested to see what happens next year. Do they go back to the plan to have Cole play center and if they do, will he get a legitimate opportunity to get comfortable at the position.

Will Ville get a legitimate opportunity.

 

[Stumbledore]

They put him there a couple of times, but again were so quick to move him out for other options, so scared of making a bold move.

If you seriously think that was a motivating factor, I'll just shake my head and wish you a good day.

 

[Royale With Cheese]

They put him there a couple of times, but again were so quick to move him out for other options, so scared of making a bold move.

I don't rejecting think Copp as a 2C was a particularly bold move. Good in a pinch maybe but he didn't really have the tools for it IMO.

 

[DRW204]

Yup. They flat out need to stick to the plans they start. You need to see things through.

I am very interested to see what happens next year. Do they go back to the plan to have Cole play center and if they do, will he get a legitimate opportunity to get comfortable at the position.

Will Ville get a legitimate opportunity.

You have this same energy with Logan Stanley?

 

[ThinIce61]

The Jets will get SO tomorrow night and go out with a wimper.

 

[MardyBum]

I must have missed the part of the season where Stankoven went 23 games without no goals and 3 assists. Cole played himself into the pressbox, unfortunately

Same can be said of Ville in past years (I think he was penciled in to start the season)

They tried with Laine. He was uncoachable

I think that Lambert, McG and Sol have top 6/top 4 upside. If they fumble all of them, I'll come around and agee with you

Not all players have top end potential, including the ones you think the Jets "mishandled". That talent level is extremely rare

Oh did he?

Look up his gamelog to end the season and tell me why Axel or even Gus went in before him

Adam Lowry :

A month between goals

I'd snip the other part, but it's so big it doesn't fit the screen. Regardless, he had 1 goal from January 1st to March 5th. 2 months, 1 goal.

5 goals from Jan 1st till the end of the season. But Perfetti, his 9 goals Since Jan 1st? BIG concern.

January 1st to the end of the season, all strengths :

Can't play him

Laine wasn't anymore un-coachable than Connor, Scheifele or Ehlers were. There's just a hierarchy that every player drafted by this org needs to adhere to, regardless of the success of it. Cole's learning that now. It's not about how well he plays, it's about how much better he has to be than the players that fit the coaches brain.

Barron, Gus, Iafallo, all worse.

 

[bustamente]

If Heinola can't make the roster next year then move him, at 23 he has done as much as he can in the A and I'm sure another team sees the potential and would take him.

 

[MardyBum]

I don't rejecting think Copp as a 2C was a particularly bold move. Good in a pinch maybe but he didn't really have the tools for it IMO.

I don't think rejecting Copp at C was a bold move, it was the safe and cowardly move. He might be bad, he might be good, but if you know someone is mid that's the safer option.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

I hate to think that you need top 3 picks to contend. But the facts are the facts.

You said picks, so by that you mean more than 1 top-3 pick? If so, Boston won a cup with Seguin being their only top-3 pick, and he was practically a non-factor in their playoff run. They also went to 2 more cup finals after he was traded.

Los Angeles only had one top-3 pick in Doughty and they won 2 cups.