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Avalanche vs Red Wings

lilidk

lilidk

Registered User
Mar 4, 2008
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What a great rivalry, great players . Everything in a past .Which team is going to have more point in 2017-2018 season ?
 
It will be a continuation for both teams, as its been for the last several years:

This....

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Both teams will finish bottom 5 this season. The only difference between these two clubs is that Colorado actually have a good prospect pool and could be a playoff team 3 years from now. I don't see that with the Red Wings.
 
The Avs are at the bottom due to horrendous execution of a proven method. The Wings are at the bottom due to an unproven method.

I like the odds of Colorado cleaning house, then making better decisions, over the odds of Detroit pioneering this approach to any significant measure of success. But either way, they're both lousy.
 
jkutswings said:
The Avs are at the bottom due to horrendous execution of a proven method. The Wings are at the bottom due to an unproven method.

I like the odds of Colorado cleaning house, then making better decisions, over the odds of Detroit pioneering this approach to any significant measure of success. But either way, they're both lousy.
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This may not make sense to anyone else, but the Wings kind of remind me of that one friend who is determined he can think of a better way to portage a canoe.
 
jkutswings said:
The Avs are at the bottom due to horrendous execution of a proven method. The Wings are at the bottom due to an unproven method.

I like the odds of Colorado cleaning house, then making better decisions, over the odds of Detroit pioneering this approach to any significant measure of success. But either way, they're both lousy.
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The Avs are at the bottom of the league because they are terrible at ****ing hockey. You think a team with MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene up front, Erik Johnson and Tyson Barrie on the defense with several other intriguing pieces like Mikko Rantanen, Tyson Jost,Nikita Zadorov (before he jumped to KHL) were trying to be bad at hockey? No, they just flat out sucked. They might try to rebuild NOW but really they have 11M in space with 18 guys on the roster three of whom are defenseman (according to capfriendly). They have 8.6M in goalies. The Wings are just the worst team in the world because they have 9.3M. That extra 700k, man, that's just the worst.
 
tsweeney said:
The Avs are at the bottom of the league because they are terrible at ****ing hockey. You think a team with MacKinnon, Landeskog, Duchene up front, Erik Johnson and Tyson Barrie on the defense with several other intriguing pieces like Mikko Rantanen, Tyson Jost,Nikita Zadorov (before he jumped to KHL) were trying to be bad at hockey? No, they just flat out sucked. They might try to rebuild NOW but really they have 11M in space with 18 guys on the roster three of whom are defenseman (according to capfriendly). They have 8.6M in goalies. The Wings are just the worst team in the world because they have 9.3M. That extra 700k, man, that's just the worst.
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I didn't mean to imply that Colorado was intentionally losing games. I meant that they shared my philosophy of tearing apart the roster to aquire top picks, but that their management has been lousy in selecting the right players with those opportunities. So Sakic and Company will eventually be fired, and their replacements may or may not do a better job. But the Wings seem to be very content in continuing to bang their head against the same wall, at least for awhile longer.
 
Henkka said:
Avs are missing character players.
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Yeah, and things are just rotten down there. Guys aren't developing like they should; Mackinnon should be a much better player than he is. Aves are in a really ugly position, and their division is super tough.

Just about everything is bad with them. Top guys aren't what they should be, bototm 6 is bad, lacking defense, a real bad goaltending charade. Ugly front office.

Not to mention the drama:
Landeskog and Mackinnon not developing as they should. Mackinnon, in particular, should be a much better player, and isn't.
The whole ROR and Duchene debacles.
Patrick Roy being a bottom five coach in the league before separating from the team.
Everything bad with Varlamov off the ice.
Terrible contract after terrible contract.

If we are in hockey purgatory, the Avalanche are in hockey hell. Everything that could be bad for them is bad for them.
 
The Avs are the perfect example of what could go wrong if the wings fully rebuild, but do so without a plan and sacrificing too much of the organisational culture in the locker room. This isn't to defend the contracts for Abby or Helm, but the avs could benefit from them. Not as much as we would from Duschene or Mackinnonn sadly!

The other difference is that even ignoring our uninspiring coach, the wings don't look good on paper. The avs arguably have more talent even across the roster as a whole, but apart from Roy's good year in charge, they haven't looked a team in years
 
lomekian said:
The Avs are the perfect example of what could go wrong if the wings fully rebuild, but do so without a plan and sacrificing too much of the organisational culture in the locker room. This isn't to defend the contracts for Abby or Helm, but the avs could benefit from them. Not as much as we would from Duschene or Mackinnonn sadly!

The other difference is that even ignoring our uninspiring coach, the wings don't look good on paper. The avs arguably have more talent even across the roster as a whole, but apart from Roy's good year in charge, they haven't looked a team in years
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That's literally insane.
 
Cyborg Yzerberg said:
That's literally insane.
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What's wrong with saying a team lacking in character and competent defensive forwards could benefit from some defensively competent character guys? I didn't say they should trade for them, or that the benefit to the age would be anything other than far less than we'd benefit from Duschene or Mack...
 
I think some fans think having character guys is BS and not required and overblown. Oilers and Avs prove that's not true unless you are the lucky team that drafts a generational talent that comes around once or twice every 10 to 15 years. Even then, I am a firm believer you still need those kind of guys.
 
lomekian said:
What's wrong with saying a team lacking in character and competent defensive forwards could benefit from some defensively competent character guys? I didn't say they should trade for them, or that the benefit to the age would be anything other than far less than we'd benefit from Duschene or Mack...
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I think I just misread your post. I took it as the Avalanche need guys like Helm and Abdelkader more than we need guys like Duchene and Mackinnon. Which is why I said that's insane.
 
Dotter said:
I think some fans think having character guys is BS and not required and overblown. Oilers and Avs prove that's not true unless you are the lucky team that drafts a generational talent that comes around once or twice every 10 to 15 years. Even then, I am a firm believer you still need those kind of guys.
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Yes, teams need those guys. But in the same way that a sundae needs a cherry on top. It's definitely missing something without it, but it's not anywhere near the most important factor in the successful assembly of the product.
 
jkutswings said:
Yes, teams need those guys. But in the same way that a sundae needs a cherry on top. It's definitely missing something without it, but it's not anywhere near the most important factor in the successful assembly of the product.
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No. You can have the most skilled feasible roster and you aren't going to win a damn thing. Like Colorado this past year. A sundae still is pretty good even without the cherry topper. It's more like a strawberry milkshake without the milk. Sure, you could just eat strawberries and that would be pretty good or you could drink a glass of milk and that would be alright, but if you really really were jonesing for a strawberry milkshake, you're not going to make it with just one or the other.

You woefully underrate the importance of "character" and "heart". It won't ever win anything by itself, but also, you're not ever going to be close to winning if you don't have it.

I'm not saying to sign all the lunch pail guys you can... but it is a vital component of your team not an afterthought. And that's why I'm not a proponent of the tank. Wings are going to have an organic chance at their elite guys and they will retain their good character. They'll never have a Colorado "lost season".
 
jkutswings said:
Yes, teams need those guys. But in the same way that a sundae needs a cherry on top. It's definitely missing something without it, but it's not anywhere near the most important factor in the successful assembly of the product.
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I could not disagree more. Not even the slightest wee-bit. Nope. Nada. We are a million light years apart on this.
 
tsweeney said:
No. You can have the most skilled feasible roster and you aren't going to win a damn thing. Like Colorado this past year. A sundae still is pretty good even without the cherry topper. It's more like a strawberry milkshake without the milk. Sure, you could just eat strawberries and that would be pretty good or you could drink a glass of milk and that would be alright, but if you really really were jonesing for a strawberry milkshake, you're not going to make it with just one or the other.

You woefully underrate the importance of "character" and "heart". It won't ever win anything by itself, but also, you're not ever going to be close to winning if you don't have it.

I'm not saying to sign all the lunch pail guys you can... but it is a vital component of your team not an afterthought. And that's why I'm not a proponent of the tank. Wings are going to have an organic chance at their elite guys and they will retain their good character. They'll never have a Colorado "lost season".
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You make it sound as if a given player can rank very highly in talent, or character/heart, but that the categories are mutually exclusive.

I'm not saying you don't need any role players or locker room guys. But this "Red Wings culture" angle is WAY overblown. Winning cures all, and over the long haul, talent is far and away the biggest factor in winning games. If you want to critique how the team gets along, look at this goofball coaching staff before making sure the roster has enough 'glue guys' on it.
 
Dotter said:
I could not disagree more. Not even the slightest wee-bit. Nope. Nada. We are a million light years apart on this.
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So Pittsburgh is going for a 3-peat primarily on the strength of their emotional bonding and character then?
 
jkutswings said:
So Pittsburgh is going for a 3-peat primarily on the strength of their emotional bonding and character then?
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I must be in some alternate universe where Crosby and Malkin are 18 years old again... :amazed:

Crosby's rookie season... 7 goal Mario Lemieux says Hi! Oh, looky... 16 guys on Penguins roster in Crosby's rookie season who are over 30 years old.

Guess they didn't get the DRWs board fan memo from the few brilliant hockey masterminds here.... :laugh:
 
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