Auston Matthews vs Patrik Laine - Round V (MOD WARNING: BEHAVE!)

[Metal God]

Matthews was 2 week away from being drafted (3rd overall) in the 2015 draft, he's kinda old and that should be taken into consideration

So you have this inside information that he would have been 3rd overall?

 

[WillTheThrill]

Dreger interview with Matthews:



http://www.tsn.ca/video/nhl/matthews-on-maple-leafs-it-s-the-hockey-mecca-of-the-world~867089

So much for the guy doesnt wanna come to Toronto. Matthews looked very excited when talking about potentially playing in toronto. And you cant blame him. One of the best coaches in the league, Marner, Nylander, Reilly, etc. The future is looking very very very bright

 

[yoss]

Went with this is the fifth thread in a series. Just seems the most accurate.

 

[dubey]

Matthews was 2 week away from being drafted (3rd overall) in the 2015 draft, he's kinda old and that should be taken into consideration

LOL

Yeah he's hit his peak already

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Laine's Relative Corsi during the Liiga Reg Season: +5% . Only 33 forwards in the NHL who player > 500 mins had a RelCorsi higher than that.

His closest comparables in the NHL based on a team Corsi of 48.3 and a personal Corsi of 53.3:

Michael Frolik
Mikael Backlund
Taylor Hall
Connor McDavid
Reilly Smith

Bad defensive players indeed

You do realize relative Corsi isn't solely to see if he's good defensively right !?
Player can have an elite Relative Corsi for, but has a downright terrible relative corsi against. When it's all said and down, he'll have a positive relative corsi.

In Laine's case, he's elite of the elite offensively (which is what I said) and that reflects in his relative corsi. My bad though, you're right. My choice of words 'atrocious' isn't accurate. But his d-game isn't on the same level remotely as Pulj and Matthews.

 

[kelsier]

He's a young guy playing in a men's league. Given any time or space, whether created by himself or a linemate he is able to pick the corner's on a goalie quite well. I suspect this is why you perceive him as a power play or one timer machine. It's really just him having enough time to process his next play imo. He's always going to be dangerous if you give him the space to work to where he can get a shot off, and doesn't need much time to do so. The difference though, is that he can create these opportunities by himself with the puck whether off the rush or in the offensive zone. It's easy to see this big 6'4'' 205 lbs guy and think he's matured, but he's still got many years of experience and some growing to do ahead of him. I wouldn't be too worried about his future in the NHL as some kind of power play specialist, he's got the tools and vision on the ice to make plays happen in all 3 zones.

He'll enter the draft being the better offensive upside prospect than Matthews, but Matthews is well rounded and was likely ready to take a step up against NHL talent half way through this season without losing much of a step. For that reason and position which is also a major need for Toronto, he'll go #1 over Laine.

Couldn't have said it much better. The seven month difference also favors Matthews in regards of entering the NHL. Toronto will get more ready player and covers the most important block in a rebuild. So regardless of the offensive upside, their hands are pretty much tied in drafting Matthews. Especially if they are not able to sign Stamkos. Stamkos at this point is a high risk signing as it looks like the injuries have taken a toll on him and doesn't seem to be the player which he was a few years ago. Toronto also doesn't even have any guarantees of getting him, which makes it gamble. Paying the guy 10 million a season at this point is something you really oughta think through twice before throwing in the contract on the table. If all goes well, Matthews will be a Leafs and Jets make a very easy decision at second with a wide smile on their faces for winning the jackpot.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Laine is just a better player than Matthews. He is a game changing talent. Matthews just makes the safe play all the time and lacks the dynamic ability of Laine. Matthews will end up being a good #1C but Laine is the one that will end up as a superstar.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Couldn't have said it much better. The seven month difference also favors Matthews in regards of entering the NHL. Toronto will get more ready player and covers the most important block in a rebuild. So regardless of the offensive upside, their hands are pretty much tied in drafting Matthews. Especially if they are not able to sign Stamkos. Stamkos at this point is a high risk signing as it looks like the injuries have taken a toll on him and doesn't seem to be the player which he was a few years ago. Toronto also doesn't even have any guarantees of getting him, which makes it gamble. Paying the guy 10 million a season at this point is something you really oughta think through twice before throwing in the contract on the table. If all goes well, Matthews will be a Leafs and Jets make a very easy decision at second with a wide smile on their faces for winning the jackpot.

"Hands are pretty much tied"

Is this the new narrative we're going to see when Matthews goes 1st?

 

[weems]

Laine is just a better player than Matthews. He is a game changing talent. Matthews just makes the safe play all the time and lacks the dynamic ability of Laine. Matthews will end up being a good #1C but Laine is the one that will end up as a superstar.

Matthews is a much better all around player.
Laine is the better goal scorer but theres alot more to hockey than scoring goals.

 

[Pyromaniac]

Matthews is a much better all around player.
Laine is the better goal scorer but theres alot more to hockey than scoring goals.

Laine has a significantly higher ceiling.

 

[weems]

Laine has a significantly higher ceiling.

No he doesnt.

 

[BB88]

Matthews is a much better all around player.
Laine is the better goal scorer but theres alot more to hockey than scoring goals.

Yes there is and Laine will bring more than his shot on the table in the NHL.

 

[Maplebeasts]

Laine has a significantly higher ceiling.

No he doesn't. the only thing he has on Matthews is goal scoring ability (though Matthews is also elite in thos category, and a couple inches of height (Matthews being a big guy as well). I honestly can not think of anything else Laine does or has over Matthews.

 

[Mahonkinen]

No he doesn't. the only thing he has on Matthews is goal scoring ability (though Matthews is also elite in thos category, and a couple inches of height (Matthews being a big guy as well). I honestly can not think of anything else Laine does or has over Matthews.

I honestly think that Laine is a better passer also. But imo they are so close in that department that its a matter of opinion. Laine also have better hands than Matthews. When Patrik grows fully in to his tall body then i expect him to be better physically. He hits also pretty good when he does.

For clarification theres lots of things that AM does better, and at the moments is the better player/prospect, especially for NHL.

Edit. And I do think Laine have the higher ceiling.

 

[kelsier]

"Hands are pretty much tied"

Is this the new narrative we're going to see when Matthews goes 1st?

After all the center > winger debate, are you now suggesting otherwise or did I somehow fail to elaborate how Matthews has more value to Toronto rather than Laine?

 

[Lennu32]

No he doesnt.

Yes he does, he's much taller so he has to have higher ceiling, otherwise there's gonna be some head injuries

Both will be very good players for a long time

 

[stavs*]

Laine has a significantly higher ceiling.

based on what exactly?

I'm willing to accept your claim, but unless you give me some damn good proof to support that assertion, then your full of ****.

 

[Mahonkinen]

based on what exactly?

I'm willing to accept your claim, but unless you give me some damn good proof to support that assertion, then your full of ****.

You didnt ask from me but if you dint mind ill share my opinion. Tho Im not saying that its signifinatly higher, just higher.

Laines most glaring weaknesses is hes skating (first steps), strenght and two-way game. And all of those are things that a NHL training will fix. If you recall what skating and strenght training did to Tavares(correct me if im wrong with him) and Barkov then I think its not out of ball park to claim that Laine has the higher ceiling. Hes going to be a huge beast when coming up that LW at peak.
Now this isnt downing AM in any way I just see feel hes ceiling isnt as high, even tho its pretty darn impressive. Hes just so complete player allready with no glaring weaknesses.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

You didnt ask from me but if you dint mind ill share my opinion. Tho Im not saying that its signifinatly higher, just higher.

Laines most glaring weaknesses is hes skating (first steps), strenght and two-way game. And all of those are things that a NHL training will fix. If you recall what skating and strenght training did to Tavares(correct me if im wrong with him) and Barkov then I think its not out of ball park to claim that Laine has the higher ceiling. Hes going to be a huge beast when coming up that LW at peak.
Now this isnt downing AM in any way I just see feel hes ceiling isnt as high, even tho its pretty darn impressive. Hes just so complete player allready with no glaring weaknesses.

Kind of strange to believe the player with glaring weaknesses has the higher ceiling vs the complete player. You can't say one can and will make all these improvements while the other has capped his potential. Laine isn't done developing, neither has Matthews.

 

[kunekune]

http://www.iltalehti.fi/mmjaakiekko-2016/2016051121544757_jj.shtml

Based on this NHL-scout Laine was better than Matthews in FIN-USA game.

 

[eppe]

based on what exactly?

I'm willing to accept your claim, but unless you give me some damn good proof to support that assertion, then your full of ****.

This thread is getting better and better with people getting heat on, but I honestly think that insults should really be dropped out of conversation. This thread IS about Patrik Laine and Auston Matthews. Sure it is a tough one, but please keep this civilized.

 

[Mahonkinen]

Kind of strange to believe the player with glaring weaknesses has the higher ceiling vs the complete player. You can't say one can and will make all these improvements while the other has capped his potential. Laine isn't done developing, neither has Matthews.

Well. I said Laines most glaring weakness. Theres a big difference in that and what you claimed I said. He wouldnt be top2 prospect with glaring weaknesses in a way you ment. I also didnt claim that AM is capped hes potential, that would be just silly. Only thing I said well, its on that post I made so no bother to write it again.

 

[Plural]

"Hands are pretty much tied"

Is this the new narrative we're going to see when Matthews goes 1st?

Well, their hands are pretty much tied in the sense that the best player in this draft happens to play the exact position the need and is considered more valuable.

So yeah, "their hands are pretty much tied".

Note: I do think Laine is really close to Matthews.

 

[Eternal Leaf]

You didnt ask from me but if you dint mind ill share my opinion. Tho Im not saying that its signifinatly higher, just higher.

Laines most glaring weaknesses is hes skating (first steps), strenght and two-way game. And all of those are things that a NHL training will fix. If you recall what skating and strenght training did to Tavares(correct me if im wrong with him) and Barkov then I think its not out of ball park to claim that Laine has the higher ceiling. Hes going to be a huge beast when coming up that LW at peak.
Now this isnt downing AM in any way I just see feel hes ceiling isnt as high, even tho its pretty darn impressive. Hes just so complete player allready with no glaring weaknesses.

So, one player has to fix things such as skating, strength, and two-way skills, but the guy who already is better in those skills has the lower ceiling?

Seems unfair don't you think? Unless Matthews has hit his prime at the age of 18.

 

[Mahonkinen]

http://www.iltalehti.fi/mmjaakiekko-2016/2016051121544757_jj.shtml

Based on this NHL-scout Laine was better than Matthews in FIN-USA game.

Well that doesnt prove anything and im a homer for Laine on this subject.