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Auston Matthews is now 0-7 in winner take all games in his career

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Maestro84 said:
For NHL and international, Auston Matthews has now lost all 7 matches he's played in where it's a do or die situation for both teams

2018 playoffs vs Boston (game 7)
2019 playoffs vs Boston (game 7)
2020 playoffs vs Columbus (game 5)
2021 playoffs vs Montreal (game 7)
2022 playoffs vs Tampa (game 7)
2024 playoffs vs Boston (game 7)
2025 four nations vs Canada (gold medal match)

He hasn't scored a goal in any of these 7 games either....it's becoming painfully obvious that Papi is the Harry Kane of the NHL
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Yikes .
 
As a result of this thread, I had an interesting thought/question. Since it involves a poll, I created a poll in the poll section. You can access it here but I'm curious of peoples thoughts.

Who'd you rather be. Auston Matthews or Justin Williams?

Thread 'Who would you rather be? Matthews or Williams?'

As a result of the thread on Matthews in winner take all games, and the fact that he's 0-7 with atrocious stats, here's a question.

Who would you rather be? Auston Matthews or Justin Williams?

Keep in mind a couple of things. No doubt, we don't know how Matthews career will finish, as there are plenty of guys that were chokers until they weren't. I get that. There are also tons of guys who have multiple cups that are simply role players, which is why this isn't just about cups vs no cups, it's more about the big game aura element.

Auston Matthews - Likely HOF'er based on points...
 
Arthur Morgan said:
to be fair, many love to poke fun at the leafs, prob the most hated team in the league,

well I dont know what to tell you, most of Leafs losses have been against teams that have gone to the cup final, most have been low scoring series. not sure how your suppose to rack up the points in low scoring series.

well more so once the greats were gone that have won, Im pretty sure Marino would be be taken over others that have also won like Farve for example.

its just logical. let's say there was a player like McDavid who exceeds Barkov and Eichel in Goals, Assists, Points and Awards but his team never made the playoffs in his career. he would finish in a higher tier than both of them No matter what their playoffs records would be.

also I dont really care what a few of you think sure Ill argue with you but your opinion means diddly to me it has no effect if I sleep or not at night,
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I am one of those people who love to poke fun at the Leafs, but only because there's so many Leafs fans who think they are the chosen fanbase and automatically know more about hockey than everyone else and I find it amusing to try to knock them down a peg or two by picking apart their arguments with humor. It has nothing to do with the team, just the arrogant fans.

And, I know exactly how to rack up points in a low scoring series. It's a proprietary technique I developed called "don't let them stop you from scoring more". If any team is willing to sign a full NDA to keep my technique secret and pay me a million dollars per player, I'd happily teach a class during training camp.

Maybe you'd pick Marino above Favre, but that doesn't mean everyone would share your opinion. That's why it's your opinion, and not a fact.

And if a player could somehow manage to score more goals, assists, points, and awards than guys like Barkov and Eichel and still not drag his team to the playoffs even once, I'd be extremely impressed, but not in a good way. It'd be like a guy with 3 Richards and great regular season numbers not even being PPG in the playoffs.
 
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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
I am one of those people who love to poke fun at the Leafs, but only because there's so many Leafs fans who think they are the chosen fanbase and automatically know more about hockey than everyone else and I find it amusing to try to knock them down a peg or two by picking apart their arguments with humor. It has nothing to do with the team, just the arrogant fans.

And, I know exactly how to rack up points in a low scoring series. It's a proprietary technique I developed called "don't let them stop you from scoring more". If any team is willing to sign a full NDA to keep my technique secret and pay me a million dollars per player, I'd happily teach a class during training camp.

Maybe you'd pick Marino above Favre, but that doesn't mean everyone would share your opinion. That's why it's your opinion, and not a fact.

And if a player could somehow manage to score more goals, assists, points, and awards than guys like Barkov and Eichel and still not drag his team to the playoffs even once, I'd be extremely impressed, but not in a good way. It'd be like a guy with 3 Richards and great regular season numbers not even being PPG in the playoffs.
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nothing wrong with poking fun at the leafs

just simply scoring more when not much is going in isn't realistic. look at the USA - CAN game, pretty low scoring. why didnt USA win? why didn't they just score more? thats not how every game just works out.

Im not a big NFL guy but I looked up a few lists and couldnt find any with Farve over Marino so I guess that would be your choice to pass on Marino but doesnt mean you can sit there and say he belongs behind

its just an example, if a player did these things and never even played a single playoff game he would still be ranked above them.

lets say McDavid never played in a single playoff game (this is for fun just accept it for what it is and answer the question) If McDavid never played in a single playoff game. would you rank Barkov and Eichel over him right now?
 
I know folks are going to dump on him but he's been injured a lot. I've always felt Marner was far worse than Matthews in the playoffs.

That being said, Marner has now actually won something. And he actually showed up in the clutch to do it. At least that monkey is off his back.

If Matthews is really hurt now (and apparently he is) then they should just bench him until the playoffs. Let him go in healthy and see what he can do. The regular season doesn't mean much and the Leafs are comfortably in the playoffs. Might as well save it up for the postseason.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
nothing wrong with poking fun at the leafs

just simply scoring more when not much is going in isn't realistic. look at the USA - CAN game, pretty low scoring. why didnt USA win? why didn't they just score more? thats not how every game just works out.

Im not a big NFL guy but I looked up a few lists and couldnt find any with Farve over Marino so I guess that would be your choice to pass on Marino but doesnt mean you can sit there and say he belongs behind

its just an example, if a player did these things and never even played a single playoff game he would still be ranked above them.

lets say McDavid never played in a single playoff game (this is for fun just accept it for what it is and answer the question) If McDavid never played in a single playoff game. would you rank Barkov and Eichel over him right now?
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Matthews has played 55 career playoff games, and has only scored multiple points 12 times, more than 2 points 3 times (3 points each time), while being held scoreless in 23 games. I can't help but wonder if he's not scoring because the games are low scoring, as you claim, or if the games are low scoring because he can't step up when his team needs him most. Excuses don't make those questions go away.

And, I used to be a big NFL guy back when Marino was playing. He was absolutely a great player, and I would absolutely take him over Favre, without any question. But if I'm building my team from scratch in a fantasy draft scenario from players of that era, he's the 5th or 6th QB on my list, and probably close to 20th overall. I'd happily miss out on Marino to get Barry Sanders.

As for your hypothetical, yes, EA would give him a higher rating in their video games, for whatever that matters, but to me, scoring a ton of points while losing is still losing. If you're such a great individual player but can't help your team win enough regular season games to make the playoffs even once in 8+ years, I'd have some very serious concerns about adding you to my team, especially if there's a massive cap difference. I think my team would win more games if I got someone less expensive, but still really good, and used the cost savings improving other parts of my team.
 
I don't get the flip Matthews with Eichel and Barkov and Vegas and Florida still win the cup argument , everybody and their grandmother knows that's not true , Matthews has gotten clamped and put in a shoebox by 2nd line centers in the playoffs his whole career. He would certainly look like a bum in the playoffs on those teams as well , also are we acting like the leafs haven't had the horses to win all those series they lost?

Like it's borderline disrespectful to Barkov who is an absolute dog out there
 
Assisted on both US goals and was stopped all alone in front by a mutant version of Binnington in OT

Matthews showed up
 
USA hockey should consider leaving Matthews off their Olympic roster if they intend to win. There's actually a few elimination games en route to winning the Olympics.

Let's see if USA hockey thinks Matthews is the problem.
 
Strangle said:
Assisted on both US goals and was stopped all alone in front by a mutant version of Binnington in OT

Matthews showed up
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Showed up and failed to score in another big game. We better hope Eichel and Guentzel produce more goals next year or we're sunk again.
 
Divine said:
USA hockey should consider leaving Matthews off their Olympic roster if they intend to win. There's actually a few elimination games en route to winning the Olympics.

Let's see if USA hockey thinks Matthews is the problem.
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We'd be stupid to leave him off the team entirely. He played reasonably well during the tournament (but "reasonably well" doesn't win you many championships, hence we lost). As it stands right now, we shouldn't be counting on him to produce in any "win or go home" type games though. I also wouldn't give him the team captaincy in Italy next year.
 
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Summer Rose said:
We'd be stupid to leave him off the team entirely. He played reasonably well during the tournament (but "reasonably well" doesn't win you many championships, hence we lost). As it stands right now, we shouldn't be counting on him to produce in any "win or go home" type games though. I also wouldn't give him the team captaincy in Italy next year.
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It's ironic how people play both sides. They didn't need him to be 'the guy' when they had 'proven winners' like Eichel and M. Tkachuk on the team.

Unfortunately, Eichel and M. Tkachuk basically disappeared after Game 1 of the tournament so they blame Matthews for not putting up 3 points in the Finals to win USA the game while the 'proven winners' walk away without blame for putting up the same stats as Matthews.
 
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Divine said:
It's ironic how people love to hate him. They didn't need him to be 'the guy' when they had 'proven winners' like Eichel and Tkachuk on the team.

Unfortunately, Eichel and Tkachuk basically disappeared after Game 1 so they blame Matthews for not putting up 3 points in Finals to win Matthews the game.
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Hey, I love to hate him too. When he puts on that USA sweater I'll defend him a bit, but when he goes back to the Leafs I'll carry on hating him. I'll just be the first to admit that it's totally irrational and often unwarranted though.
 
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HockeyVirus said:
The point you choose to miss is pointing to that game and saying he isn't a big time player just makes you look like you didn't watch the game or are incapable of understanding what you are seeing besides goals (in which he was the primary assist for both).

There was no reason to re-open the discussion aside from having an axe to grind. Had Matthews won with the OT goal everyone wanted, instead we're talking in a "Marner is 0-7" thread. It was lose/lose as a Leaf. Someone had to lose.
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Matthews's career in the playoffs includes 12 points in 19 games in games 5-7 of a playoff series, the most important games, including the elimination games, and he has a .63 ppg. That's a 51-point pace over 82 games. For a supposed superstar in the NHL, that is atrocious.

Yes, he had 2 assists in that game, which is good for him, but that game was the exception, not the norm, for Matthews.

Maybe that was the start of him turning around this very true narrative that he gets pushed out of big games and becomes a ghost out there, which, to be honest, he kinda was, even with those assists and chances in overtime, he was not noticeable for the vast majority of the game.

The 0-7 narrative shouldn't matter, it does take a team to win or lose, but the best players should be and need to be the best players in the most important games, and Matthews proves time and time again that he flat out is not that.
 
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JFedol said:
Aside from Ovi and Richard, Hull has some pretty bad numbers in game 7s, no?
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He didn't play many, but they were generally good

1971
SCF Game 7 - 1 assist in 3-2 loss to Habs
SemiFinal Game 7 - 1 goal 1 assist in 4-2 win to Rangers

1965
SemiFinal Game 7 - 1 goal 1 assist in 4-2 win to Red Wings

1964
SemiFinal Game 7 - 1 goal in 4-2 loss to Red Wings

So 3 goals 3 assists for 6 points in 4 games.
 
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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
Matthews has played 55 career playoff games, and has only scored multiple points 12 times, more than 2 points 3 times (3 points each time), while being held scoreless in 23 games. I can't help but wonder if he's not scoring because the games are low scoring, as you claim, or if the games are low scoring because he can't step up when his team needs him most. Excuses don't make those questions go away.

And, I used to be a big NFL guy back when Marino was playing. He was absolutely a great player, and I would absolutely take him over Favre, without any question. But if I'm building my team from scratch in a fantasy draft scenario from players of that era, he's the 5th or 6th QB on my list, and probably close to 20th overall. I'd happily miss out on Marino to get Barry Sanders.

As for your hypothetical, yes, EA would give him a higher rating in their video games, for whatever that matters, but to me, scoring a ton of points while losing is still losing. If you're such a great individual player but can't help your team win enough regular season games to make the playoffs even once in 8+ years, I'd have some very serious concerns about adding you to my team, especially if there's a massive cap difference. I think my team would win more games if I got someone less expensive, but still really good, and used the cost savings improving other parts of my team.
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that I cant defend lol, he 100% should be better, I do understand he's a different player come playoff time compared to regular season, I think eventually that might change, I just dunno if it happens in Toronto. I have little faith even McDavid would change anything here

okay I can't argue with you on football but Ill agree with what ur saying

and thank you, but yeah I mean when its all said and done where ever they rank will only mean so much. u for sure will want a guy that will make a difference in big games.... like the playoffs lol. I still think Matthews should be in a higher tier than Eichel or Barkov but cant argue going with them over Matthews given playoffs success. I just think whenever Matthews (if) has that big playoffs, everything will change. or maybe not I prob shouldn't underestimate people's opinions towards a Leaf player.

I still think if it was possible almost everyone would take him on their team and that goes for Marner as well
 
The Gr8 Dane said:
I don't get the flip Matthews with Eichel and Barkov and Vegas and Florida still win the cup argument , everybody and their grandmother knows that's not true , Matthews has gotten clamped and put in a shoebox by 2nd line centers in the playoffs his whole career. He would certainly look like a bum in the playoffs on those teams as well , also are we acting like the leafs haven't had the horses to win all those series they lost?

Like it's borderline disrespectful to Barkov who is an absolute dog out there
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I brought something like this up but I never said they still win the cup. shit u can go replay those series and there's no guarantee VGK or FLA win again, but I do believe that if you swapped Matthews with either one, you would likely see a much better overall performance than what we have seen from him.

I dont think anything ever changes in Toronto. they just find ways to lose and this is going back even before Matthews was drafted, I get it was only the 2013 series but I dunno how you fall apart like that.

both Eichel and Barkov deserve respect for what they did. Id say more so Eichel over Barkov since no one ever really said anything bad about Barkov like ever, Eichel was much different, he was viewed as a cant win player throughout his time in Buffalo.
 
Arthur Morgan said:
that I cant defend lol, he 100% should be better, I do understand he's a different player come playoff time compared to regular season, I think eventually that might change, I just dunno if it happens in Toronto. I have little faith even McDavid would change anything here

okay I can't argue with you on football but Ill agree with what ur saying

and thank you, but yeah I mean when its all said and done where ever they rank will only mean so much. u for sure will want a guy that will make a difference in big games.... like the playoffs lol. I still think Matthews should be in a higher tier than Eichel or Barkov but cant argue going with them over Matthews given playoffs success. I just think whenever Matthews (if) has that big playoffs, everything will change. or maybe not I prob shouldn't underestimate people's opinions towards a Leaf player.

I still think if it was possible almost everyone would take him on their team and that goes for Marner as well
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As a childhood Red Sox fan in the 1980s, I understand that feeling of your team being cursed all too well. It doesn't matter who is on the team, the curse is real, all of it. I get it.

If Matthews could consistently do something impressive in the playoffs, he'd be in a higher tier without much question. Unfortunately, he hasn't done anything impressive in the playoffs in 8 attempts, despite all of his regular season production, which drops him down in my book. If he eventually figures out how to play in the playoffs, and has a couple of good playoff runs, then he'll be an overpaid 33 year old who isn't worth the 1st round pick and B prospect it'll take to acquire him as a rental. I don't make the rules, I just know how things work around here.

And, if the salary cap weren't a thing, I'd agree that almost everyone would take him and Marner. Since the salary cap is a thing, I can see how a lot of people would make different choices.
 
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IWantSakicAsMyGM said:
As a childhood Red Sox fan in the 1980s, I understand that feeling of your team being cursed all too well. It doesn't matter who is on the team, the curse is real, all of it. I get it.

If Matthews could consistently do something impressive in the playoffs, he'd be in a higher tier without much question. Unfortunately, he hasn't done anything impressive in the playoffs in 8 attempts, despite all of his regular season production, which drops him down in my book. If he eventually figures out how to play in the playoffs, and has a couple of good playoff runs, then he'll be an overpaid 33 year old who isn't worth the 1st round pick and B prospect it'll take to acquire him as a rental. I don't make the rules, I just know how things work around here.
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its hard to really continuing to argue against what ur saying, I pretty much agree with all of it.
I more so mean on talent wise. but yeah being a winner over a loser give big time bonus points.

I do think if a player in their career ends up with more goals, points and awards they should atleast be placed in a higher tier, but maybe that doesnt mean he should finish higher in a ranking system. well I mean depends. if u had a player break 2k points and never played a single playoff game it would be tough to say he shouldnt be placed among the highest tiers of players lol.

I try not to say they are cursed but it really feels that way at times, I dont really believe in them when it matters anymore
 
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