Auston Matthews is now 0-7 in winner take all games in his career

[Barsky]

Do these great player (like Matthews and Yzerman clearly are/were) value individual awards like they do the Cup? IMO these true greats define their careers by the Cup. No Cup = a lesser career in their minds.

Agreed, though tbf of course personal awards do have value, more to the individual themself, but to fans as well. No one dreams of growing up and winning the Art Ross though, its the Cup they all dream of though to be fair, the Conn Smythe is a great one too, but mostly cause it usually means you won a cup, lol

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Do these great player (like Matthews and Yzerman clearly are/were) value individual awards like they do the Cup? IMO these true greats define their careers by the Cup. No Cup = a lesser career in their minds.

so if McDavid doesnt win a cup in his career where does he place? I agree with you to a degree but some talents deserve to up there anyways. how about someone like Marcel Dionne?

 

[torniojaws]

Never knew that the winner took it all in the first round of the playoffs.

That's the Toronto Maple Leafs classic. First round Cup winner!

 

[JoeSakic13]

How tf are chances he didn’t convert on considered points in his favor?

Cuz he did everything he could to get USA the W.

Meanwhile Hughes was busy smelling his own farts and Miller was still upset over not getting a window seat on the flight over.

 

[Barsky]

you have to understand when your ranking a player all time there's more to it than just one thing.
goals, points, awards and championships all count. if Matthews exceeds them in every category other than winning a cup then how are you placing those players higher?

would you place Maroon over Barkov? he has more cups. no you wouldn't because in every aspect of the game Barkov and Eichel are better.

the only real argument Barkov has is his elite 2way play and Matthews aint just some bum he's a pretty damn good 2 way player as well

Maroon plays 10 minutes a night though and his contributions were accordingly much lower, but if he played 20, that would be a crucial difference and a convo could be had. AM34 has all the tools to win, but he doesn't and that's a consistent pattern for him at this point, so that begs alot of questions, as it should

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Maroon plays 10 minutes a night though and his contributions were accordingly much lower, but if he played 20, that would be a crucial difference and a convo could be had. AM34 has all the tools to win, but he doesn't and that's a consistent pattern for him at this point, so that begs alot of questions, as it should

well obviously Maroon is an extreme example but it plays into ur way of thinking. there's more than just winning a cup. personal awards goals and points play their part as well.

if McDavid doesn't win would you place him behind Barkov?

what if by the end of their careers Matthews has 3-500 or more points than Barkov as well more awards would you place Barkov above them over 1 cup?

 

[onmygameboi]

Fair criticism for his Leafs playoff performances but he played real well last night and was the most dangerous US forward in OT if Binnington didn’t rob him twice. 2 primary assists as well. Can’t ask for a much better performance.

I know everyone wants to blame him for losing 97 in OT but watch that goal again. Adam Fox blew his coverage which forced everyone to switch, and Matthews decided to pressure Marner instead of giving him a lane to the net, which left Mcdavid open.

Fox sucks. I know that everyone disagrees with me, but he sucks.

 

[kthx]

Sample size, after all is quite small. He is a great player who everyone wants in their team.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Whether you like him or not, the obsession with framing and reframing his failures to have a new thread to celebrate this often, and also whining about any thread that is are positive about him, is kind of sad.

 

[onmygameboi]

As a Leafs fan and Matthews glazer, you just do not leave the front of the net. Not when it's Connor F****** McDavid in the slot.

Fox absolutely lost his guy but you stop the threat, Marner along the boards isn't the scoring threat in that situation. Plus as the C, the slot is his duty. It was an overall defensive breakdown, but regardless of Fox losing his man, you don't leave the front of the net to challenge a passer along the boards.

The entire purpose of defense in hockey is to stop the play from advancing. Sometimes it's by using the body to separate the man from the puck, sometimes it's positioning to cut off a passing lane, sometimes it's having a good stick to force passes to the outside/non-threatening areas. In that situation the play is, cover the slot, challenge McDavid for position and tie his stick up. Just make it difficult for him to receive the puck/shoot the puck.

Fox being out of position allowed Marner to have time to make a pass or a play. Matthews going out of position allowed McDavid to become an immediate high danger scoring threat.

I think Matthews had a very strong game overall, he was phenomenal the entire night IMO except that play. And unfortunately that play sealed the game. I'm sure he's going to learn from it, but you absolutely just cannot do that. It's just shitty because he had such a great game prior to that, but the error was so big it over shadows the 2 assists that even got the game to OT + the 2 dangerous scoring chances he had.

Thanks for the analysis. What is your take on Hughes during that play? At first, I thought Jack was at fault, but I thought differently when I saw the replay. Your take on his positioning?

 

[nbwingsfan]

everyone loves to give Matthews a hard time but 10/10 would want him on their team

At his cap hit, hell no

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

As a Leafs fan and Matthews glazer, you just do not leave the front of the net. Not when it's Connor F****** McDavid in the slot.

Fox absolutely lost his guy but you stop the threat, Marner along the boards isn't the scoring threat in that situation. Plus as the C, the slot is his duty. It was an overall defensive breakdown, but regardless of Fox losing his man, you don't leave the front of the net to challenge a passer along the boards.

The entire purpose of defense in hockey is to stop the play from advancing. Sometimes it's by using the body to separate the man from the puck, sometimes it's positioning to cut off a passing lane, sometimes it's having a good stick to force passes to the outside/non-threatening areas. In that situation the play is, cover the slot, challenge McDavid for position and tie his stick up. Just make it difficult for him to receive the puck/shoot the puck.

Fox being out of position allowed Marner to have time to make a pass or a play. Matthews going out of position allowed McDavid to become an immediate high danger scoring threat.

I think Matthews had a very strong game overall, he was phenomenal the entire night IMO except that play. And unfortunately that play sealed the game. I'm sure he's going to learn from it, but you absolutely just cannot do that. It's just shitty because he had such a great game prior to that, but the error was so big it over shadows the 2 assists that even got the game to OT + the 2 dangerous scoring chances he had.

As a Sabres fan, I gotta respect a good post that attempts at objectivity. A+.

 

[AvroArrow]

Thanks for the analysis. What is your take on Hughes during that play? At first, I thought Jack was at fault, but I thought differently when I saw the replay. Your take on his positioning?

He probably could've done better to force the pass to the point instead of allowing a pass to the slot, but it's hard to make that read in a split second. Assuming Fox doesn't go for a lap for whatever reason, his positioning was ok-ish. Ideally you want him to get a stick in the passing lane or at least in someway obstruct a clean pass to McDavid, but that's not his assignment. Just a hard adjustment to make in a split second.

If Hughes does challenge Marner there, Marner still might be able to get it to McDavid, but more likely he goes to the point man who gets to walk in freely. At that point McDavid probably slides off towards the right face off circle and still has a grade A scoring opportunity, the pass would be coming from the defender skating down.

Overall I don't blame Hughes on that, Fox for whatever reason leaves his side of the net and his man. Matthews leaves the slot to challenge Marner.

1) Matthews loses the face off
2) Fox goes to the left side, leaving Marner open
3) Matthews leaves the front of the net, to challenge Marner on the boards
4) Goal

 

[tarheelhockey]

He’s a great player, but a 7 game losing streak combined with a 7 game goalless streak is pretty remarkable.

If that happened in the regular season you’d be like wow, that’s a really ugly slump. He needs to get his act together.

For that to happen in Game 7s and a gold medal game is wild. I don't hate on Matthews but I don’t know how you can look at that and not see something amiss.

When I think about other high-end HOF’ers whose careers were defined by playoff failure:

Marcel Dionne in game 7s (or equivalent)
3 games, 2-0-2
International gold medal games
2 games, 0-1-1

Joe Thornton in game 7s
9 games, 2-3-5
International gold medal games
4 games, 0-2-2

Auston Matthews in game 7s (or equivalent)
6 games, 0-3-3
International gold medal games
3 games, 1-2-3

Matthews’ only goal came in the 2014 World Junior Championship game.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I know everyone wants to blame him for losing 97 in OT but watch that goal again. Adam Fox blew his coverage which forced everyone to switch, and Matthews decided to pressure Marner instead of giving him a lane to the net, which left Mcdavid open.

IMO, even though Fox started that chain of events, I still think Matthews made the wrong play on that one. Marner was no threat where he was. Plus, who would you rather cover for a dangerous scoring chance between McDavid and Marner? Matthews should have stuck with the bigger threat (McDavid) and let Marner dangle in the corner.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

At his cap hit, hell no

soon bottom 6 forwards will be getting 5-6m and 12-13m will look like nothing. caps going up big time but this is hypothetical anyways, cap has no effect, 10/10 would take Matthews. hell even where he's at. the way the cap is rising players like this will become much more expensive than 13m

 

[JKG33]

Eichel didn't lead his team. He joined a Vegas team that already made the cup final and were just a legitimate 1C away from winning it all. He was the piece that put them over the top. This is like saying Phil Kessel led the Penguins to back to back cups.

Mackinnon was great, but Colorado was insanely stacked. Kadri was instrumental in their cup run and Makar had a generational run in the playoffs.

Discounting MacKinnon because of f***ing Kadri? Lmfao. The best thing Kadri did for their playoff was injure Binnington

 

[elmaco]

Who is Harry Kane? Is that Patrick's brother?

He's England national soccer team captain, a legit superstar in Europe.

 

[JKG33]

Whether you like him or not, the obsession with framing and reframing his failures to have a new thread to celebrate this often, and also whining about any thread that is are positive about him, is kind of sad.

Just as sad as making threads to celebrate meaningless regular season goal accolades for a guy who disappears every April

 

[Nothingbutglass]

It sucks that Matthews got stoned in OT and then looked out of position for the winning goal, but that was his best game by far. He's been banged up and off scoring pace all year but stepped up for that game. The record is Leafs related. If he went to Vegas instead of Eichel, they still would have won a cup.

 

[JKG33]

It sucks that Matthews got stoned in OT and then looked out of position for the winning goal, but that was his best game by far. He's been banged up and off scoring pace all year but stepped up for that game. The record is Leafs related. If he went to Vegas instead of Eichel, they still would have won a cup.

He also made more than Eichel even on his last contract. And im not so sure they still win

 

[Nothingbutglass]

He also made more than Eichel even on his last contract. And im not so sure they still win

Fair, I didn't consider cap. But Matthews on that Vegas team still would have won.

 

[NVious]

He’s a great player, but a 7 game losing streak combined with a 7 game goalless streak is pretty remarkable.

If that happened in the regular season you’d be like wow, that’s a really ugly slump. He needs to get his act together.

For that to happen in Game 7s and a gold medal game is wild. I don't hate on Matthews but I don’t know how you can look at that and not see something amiss.

When I think about other high-end HOF’ers whose careers were defined by playoff failure:

Marcel Dionne in game 7s (or equivalent)
3 games, 2-0-2
International gold medal games
2 games, 0-1-1

Joe Thornton in game 7s
9 games, 2-3-5
International gold medal games
4 games, 0-2-2

Auston Matthews in game 7s (or equivalent)
6 games, 0-3-3
International gold medal games
3 games, 1-2-3

Matthews’ only goal came in the 2014 World Junior Championship game.

The real problem is he has never taken over in a playoff run ever. In the season he's in the McDrai/Kuch/Mac/Mak tier, but come playoff time he performs like Barzal, a good player no doubt but definitely not even close to that tier which is a disaster in a salary cap era.

Even though this thread is unfair because he was actually good yesterday, it on the whole is totally warranted considering his failures.

Look at Binnington, his career is basically 60 amazing games followed by some good, some meh and some awful, but he showed up yesterday so now he's a winner (despite being mediocre af in the tourney as a whole).

The problem with Matthews is his sky high potential coupled with his enormous contract and the fact that looking at some of his playoff/elimination game stats, they more so reflect a good 1st line center as opposed to a quasi generational goal scorer who at his peak can unthrone McDavid. To put it in perspective, Mats Sundin literally has a higher ppg/gpg in the playoffs than him. Crazy to think about when Sundin is obviously a lesser talent, playing on worse teams and on a lower scoring era.

Again, not fair of the timing to make this thread, but totally fair as a whole considering talent/contract/teammates/era.

 

[pigpen65]

What a bonehead play. WTF is up with this guy?

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Just watched the goal again, confirmed Matthews’ fault

https://media.giphy.com/media/v1.Y2lkPTc5MGI3NjExa3phZXE1bDR6endyNGhkd3RtYnR2dDJoamhxeDcwanU0OXE4OWpubiZlcD12MV9naWZzX3NlYXJjaCZjdD1n/gkWlSZvUNmi20adIre/giphy.gif