Player Discussion Auston Matthews Discussion

[Boxscore]

Berube’s biggest challenge will be to channel Matthews’ 70 goal pursuit energy into the playoffs. He has that dominant gear but he’s unable to access it when you put disruptors in front of him. And at the end of the day, Danault, Coyle, Geekie, Chariot, Dubois aren’t exactly a murderers row of playoff competition.

In the playoffs? I think not. Sorry, the sample size is vast enough, and the proof is in the pudding. Regular season? Sure... he's a beast. In the postseason... when the competition is willing to scratch, claw, block pucks with their face, and drag superstars into the trenches to battle for gains? Nah. Matthews is a 6-3, 210-pound creampuff with zero dawg in him.

 

[Boxscore]

That would be true if McDavid was paid his worth but he's not, he's severely underpaid.

So the ultimate question is...

Did Connor McDavid wake up on contract day and say, "I'm the best player on the planet but I purposely want to be criminally underpaid for my production so I'll sign 8 years..."

Or...

Does he say, "I can demand the Oilers pay me every penny I ask for but I won't because I want to be part of a competitive team for 8 years..."?

I think we know the answer. The difference between a person like McDavid and a person like Matthews is their drive, perspective, priorities, dedication, and ultimate thirst to become a champion.

MacKinnon did the same thing McDavid did and got his Cup. If Matthews cared as much about getting his name on the Cup as he does maximizing every penny he's paid by the Leafs, he'd be on his way to becoming a modern day Henri Richard.

 

[saffronleaf]

In the playoffs? I think not. Sorry, the sample size is vast enough, and the proof is in the pudding. Regular season? Sure... he's a beast. In the postseason... when the competition is willing to scratch, claw, block pucks with their face, and drag superstars into the trenches to battle for gains? Nah. Matthews is a 6-3, 210-pound creampuff with zero dawg in him.

he had one good series against tampa and one good series against boston. i'll give him a break for the washington series (rookie) and the cbj series (weird covid situation).

still not even close to consistent enough for the money he makes.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

In the playoffs? I think not. Sorry, the sample size is vast enough, and the proof is in the pudding. Regular season? Sure... he's a beast. In the postseason... when the competition is willing to scratch, claw, block pucks with their face, and drag superstars into the trenches to battle for gains? Nah. Matthews is a 6-3, 210-pound creampuff with zero dawg in him.

Funny enough Matthews/Marner have performed similarly in PPG to guys who most would look to as clutch playoff performers, but because McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov/Drai put up some of the highest PPG totals of all time, they are looked at as failures.

Since Matthews and Marner entered the league here are some playoff PPGs:

Tkachuk 0.88
Ovechkin 0.88
Marner 0.88
Barkov 0.87
Kane 0.85
Stamkos 0.84
Bergeron 0.83

All except Kane having been to at least one cup final during that time. Yes Matthews and co eventually need to have that insane run (1-1.5 PPG), but we really need to stop trying to play 0-negative 1 hockey with our bottom 6 and get some guys that can chip in with a little offense to help them out.

Instead we play guys like Gregor who can't score or play defense over guys that can at least score (Robertson). Saying we have no cap space because the big guys make so much is also irrelevant as we paid Kampf/Jarnkrok/Reaves to contribute nothing and both cup finalists somehow managed to find enough scoring depth with a $5M goalie in the minors.

 

[therealkoho]

So I've been watching the finals, and all I wanted to say Connor McJeebuzz I see none of that drive in our guy, very similar abilities, but not the will

 

[hamzarocks]

Funny enough Matthews/Marner have performed similarly in PPG to guys who most would look to as clutch playoff performers, but because McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov/Drai put up some of the highest PPG totals of all time, they are looked at as failures.

Since Matthews and Marner entered the league here are some playoff PPGs:

Tkachuk 0.88
Ovechkin 0.88
Marner 0.88
Barkov 0.87
Kane 0.85
Stamkos 0.84
Bergeron 0.83

All except Kane having been to at least one cup final during that time. Yes Matthews and co eventually need to have that insane run (1-1.5 PPG), but we really need to stop trying to play 0-negative 1 hockey with our bottom 6 and get some guys that can chip in with a little offense to help them out.

Instead we play guys like Gregor who can't score or play defense over guys that can at least score (Robertson). Saying we have no cap space because the big guys make so much is also irrelevant as we paid Kampf/Jarnkrok/Reaves to contribute nothing and both cup finalists somehow managed to find enough scoring depth with a $5M goalie in the minors.

Well that goes back to our core being 15-20M overpaid come playoffs

We pay the core 4 40+M

Matthews plays like a 8M player
Marner and Nylander 7M each
Tavares 5M

That is a lot of underproducing by the core guys which leaves little room to add quality depth

Benoit, Lubyshkin, Domi, Bert, Edmunsom did provide surplus value and negated some of that underperformance

Jarnkrok + Kampf + Reeves make around 6M. They were overpiad by 3M prob (1M each)

The bigger issue seems to be overpayment+underperformance of the core rather than the tail end of the roster guys

 

[Rob Brown]

So I've been watching the finals, and all I wanted to say Connor McJeebuzz I see none of that drive in our guy, very similar abilities, but not the will

McDavid is far better, but yes, Matthews has yet to show the same drive in the playoffs.

Matthews two-way ability and his size could make him an actual force in the playoffs. I know he's started to hit a bit more in recent years but I would love to see him adopt more of a 'greasy' playoff style. Hopefully Berube can challenge him to bring that out.

 

[Stephen]

Funny enough Matthews/Marner have performed similarly in PPG to guys who most would look to as clutch playoff performers, but because McDavid/MacKinnon/Kucherov/Drai put up some of the highest PPG totals of all time, they are looked at as failures.

Since Matthews and Marner entered the league here are some playoff PPGs:

Tkachuk 0.88
Ovechkin 0.88
Marner 0.88
Barkov 0.87
Kane 0.85
Stamkos 0.84
Bergeron 0.83

All except Kane having been to at least one cup final during that time. Yes Matthews and co eventually need to have that insane run (1-1.5 PPG), but we really need to stop trying to play 0-negative 1 hockey with our bottom 6 and get some guys that can chip in with a little offense to help them out.

Instead we play guys like Gregor who can't score or play defense over guys that can at least score (Robertson). Saying we have no cap space because the big guys make so much is also irrelevant as we paid Kampf/Jarnkrok/Reaves to contribute nothing and both cup finalists somehow managed to find enough scoring depth with a $5M goalie in the minors.

Put those PPG stats away. They are completely misleading. The only stat that matters is 1-8 in the playoffs over 8 seasons. Those results are disgraceful.

 

[ACC1224]

McDavid is far better, but yes, Matthews has yet to show the same drive in the playoffs.

Matthews two-way ability and his size could make him an actual force in the playoffs. I know he's started to hit a bit more in recent years but I would love to see him adopt more of a 'greasy' playoff style. Hopefully Berube can challenge him to bring that out.

Not in his DNA unfortunately, he needs to be surrounded by it.

 

[Ports]

So the ultimate question is...

Did Connor McDavid wake up on contract day and say, "I'm the best player on the planet but I purposely want to be criminally underpaid for my production so I'll sign 8 years..."

Or...

Does he say, "I can demand the Oilers pay me every penny I ask for but I won't because I want to be part of a competitive team for 8 years..."?

I think we know the answer. The difference between a person like McDavid and a person like Matthews is their drive, perspective, priorities, dedication, and ultimate thirst to become a champion.

MacKinnon did the same thing McDavid did and got his Cup. If Matthews cared as much about getting his name on the Cup as he does maximizing every penny he's paid by the Leafs, he'd be on his way to becoming a modern day Henri Richard.

One is an American who grew up in Arizona and the two others are Canadians who have hockey history in their blood.

 

[notDatsyuk]

None of Auston Matthews, Mitch Marner, William Nylander or John Tavares has managed to surpass Alyn McCauley’s single playoff season high of 15 points. From the Dead Puck Era. As a fluke replacement.

True, although it did take him 20 games, while none of the current group have played more than 12.

 

[HockeyVirus]

In the playoffs? I think not. Sorry, the sample size is vast enough, and the proof is in the pudding. Regular season? Sure... he's a beast. In the postseason... when the competition is willing to scratch, claw, block pucks with their face, and drag superstars into the trenches to battle for gains? Nah. Matthews is a 6-3, 210-pound creampuff with zero dawg in him.

*yawn*

Go watch game 2 and admit you were wrong. Not his fault he wasn't able to play due to health. he was poised for a monster post season.

Oh and he was dominant against Tampa too

 

[Aashir Mallik]

*yawn*

Go watch game 2 and admit you were wrong. Not his fault he wasn't able to play due to health. he was poised for a monster post season.

Oh and he was dominant against Tampa too

So he had…1 game?

And why is it alway his health, last year in florida apparently it was his wrist. Same with Montreal. He shouldn’t be making over 10 if this is what we get every year

Hes been “poised” every year, we broke the curse last year and he proceeds to not score a goal in the next series and has 1 in the last 12

This dude has excuse after excuse made for him. He’s not at the level of the best in the world in the playoffs.

Matthews was dominant against tampa, great but there are 30 other teams and he’s only been respectable against 1. 6 points against Boston is not good enough for his standard. He needs to be above a ppg, he has defencemen putting up higher ppgs and driving offence better than him

The reality is, Matthews will never win a cup as the teams best player, he’s closer to a rantanen or point than a kucherov or Mackinnon

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Some fans really think we don't deserve anything.

 

[ORRFForever]

So I've been watching the finals, and all I wanted to say Connor McJeebuzz I see none of that drive in our guy, very similar abilities, but not the will

I don't see "very similar abilities". McDavid is the best player in the world by a large margin.

Not directed at you, @therealkoho, but I don't know why Matthews fans can't see that. After all, I guarantee, sometime next season, Matthews will go on a tear and posters will start threads asking, "Is Matthews as good as McDavid?", or something in that vein.

Happens every year and it should be punishable with banishment.

 

[ORRFForever]

Think Florida will be able to match Edmontons intensity or is the series over?

I don't know what to think - I thought the Oilers were done after Game 3.

If Hyman, Drai and RNH get going, Florida is doomed. If not... I'm not sure even Superman McDavid can do it all himself.

 

[PromisedLand]

By the time Matthews' deal is up - 4 years. if we don't have a cup then Matthews can go chase the money and the cup elsewhere. I really hope he isnt re-signed at a ridiculous cap hit without any significant post season success (based on his performance) or at least a cup. If not bye-bye Matthews as far as I am concerned

LOGO ON THE FRONT MATTERS MORE THAN THE f***ING NAME ON THE BACK

 

[ToneDog]

By the time Matthews' deal is up - 4 years. if we don't have a cup then Matthews can go chase the money and the cup elsewhere. I really hope he isnt re-signed at a ridiculous cap hit without any significant post season success (based on his performance) or at least a cup. If not bye-bye Matthews as far as I am concerned

LOGO ON THE FRONT MATTERS MORE THAN THE f***ING NAME ON THE BACK

And we'd be left with Nylander to carry the torch. Yikes. They will overpay him for the following 4 years because nobody else will.

 

[Kazparov]

Do we think Berube puts Matty on the PK? Never fully understood why Keefe never really did.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Do we think Berube puts Matty on the PK? Never fully understood why Keefe never really did.

There are both tactical and practical reasons for this.

Matthews isn't gonna score on the PK. Better chance at getting hurt that way too from all the extra pucks flying at him. Better to keep him rested for the first shift out after the PK when he will either be facing tired PP players or weaker competition.

I expect Berube will likely do the same.

 

[Kazparov]

There are both tactical and practical reasons for this.

Matthews isn't gonna score on the PK. Better chance at getting hurt that way too from all the extra pucks flying at him. Better to keep him rested for the first shift out after the PK when he will either be facing tired PP players or weaker competition.

I expect Berube will likely do the same.

Ah yes that's all true and good points. I just wondered because he is their best 200 ft center but makes sense you ideally want him spending as much time in the Ozone not standing in front of missiles from the point

 

[notbias]

Do we think Berube puts Matty on the PK? Never fully understood why Keefe never really did.

He should, he is arguably our best PKer.

We also need more Cs on the PK, and Matthews showed he is already a better PKer than Kampf.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

He should, he is arguably our best PKer.

We also need more Cs on the PK, and Matthews showed he is already a better PKer than Kampf.

Why would you need more centres on the pk?

Only one takes the draw. The Leafs play a wedge+1, with Marner the +1, not a centre. They aren't replacing Marner as the flagger so, unless they replace a defenseman with a centre, I don't see why they need another one.

The second pk unit doesn't see as much ice time, and Matthews could come on with it near the end of the penalty to replace Marner and try to swat the puck out of the air and score on a breakaway, would be a good time to use him on the pk if you really felt it was a necessary thing.

 

[notbias]

Why would you need more centres on the pk?

Only one takes the draw. The Leafs play a wedge+1, with Marner the +1, not a centre. They aren't replacing Marner as the flagger so, unless they replace a defenseman with a centre, I don't see why they need another one.

The second pk unit doesn't see as much ice time, and Matthews could come on with it near the end of the penalty and try to swat the puck out of the air and score on a breakaway, would be a good time to use him on the pk if you really felt it was a necessary thing.

It'd be nice to have a better C than Kampf to take draws on PK1.

I want Matthews on PK1, not PK2 because he is our best PKer, not specifically to take the draw, but it is a nice bonus.

Our PK has struggled at crucial times and our best PKer has been on the bench.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

It'd be nice to have a better C than Kampf to take draws on PK1.

I want Matthews on PK1, not PK2 because he is our best PKer, not specifically to take the draw, but it is a nice bonus.

Our PK has struggled at crucial times and our best PKer has been on the bench.

Is he REALLY their best pk'er?

Small samples sizes make Nylander look good on the PK too.