Tribute Auston Matthews Discussion "the Beauty" Edition

[WillyC]

Already the Greatest Maple Leaf to ever wear the jersey… just a matter of time until he holds the records and missing hardware.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Matthews after 483 games: 305 goals
Ovechkin after 483 games: 304 goals

 

[francis246]

Look, I'm just gonna say what everyone, including fans of other teams, is thinking and is in complete agreement on: Matthews is the greatest athlete, if not human being, of all time.

Lol there’s better athletes but he’s really good

 

[Zur En Arrh]

Hf -" Matthews is a tier or two below McDavid" "

False!!! Matthews is the best all round player in the world....suck it!!!

 

[cipher]

What even more amazing is his "setup" guy doesn't ever start going until around 10 games into each season. Marner always starts slow which is easily seen with his legs not moving and his puck control and decision making being poor. Then, all of a sudden, he turns into one of the best players in the league.

If Matthews stays healthy and keeps getting some early goals, followed by Marner getting back to his dominant self and Bertuzzi gelling with his linemates, I believe we'll be looking at a 60-70 goal season.

 

[WillNy29]

f*** why the hell didn't we trade him for Byfield!

 

[WillNy29]

There were actually Leafs fans on this website with so much brainrot that they thought we'd be better off not re-signing Matthews. Like we'd be better off with $13 million in cap space. I had to argue that signing Matthews was good actually. Keeping a no doubt top 5 talent in the world is worth it regardless of the contract, it is impossible to overpay players like this.

but could you imagine if we had f***ing Byfield???!?!?!

 

[authentic]

Matthews after 483 games: 305 goals
Ovechkin after 483 games: 304 goals

Playing 800 less powerplay minutes which works out to 57 entire games on the powerplay!

 

[Aashir Mallik]

There were actually Leafs fans on this website with so much brainrot that they thought we'd be better off not re-signing Matthews. Like we'd be better off with $13 million in cap space. I had to argue that signing Matthews was good actually. Keeping a no doubt top 5 talent in the world is worth it regardless of the contract, it is impossible to overpay players like this.

The perspective I had, and maybe others too had was:
Matthews was coming off a down year where his wrists had been hurt again for the 2nd time in 3 years to the point where his shot was noticeably worse. If his wrists looked bad at age 27-28, what would they look like at 32-33. Moreover, he looked slower and less dangerous last year. Now obviously I was putting a lot of stock into one year and ignoring the year prior where he got the hart, but I just never expected matthews to have a down year like that following his hart year. I didn’t expect him to bounce back as well as he has, I was worried we would be getting a 40-50 goals 90-95 points center at 13 million, which would not be a top 5 player, and thus would be an overpayment. With his wrists healthy he’s looking like the year prior, dangerous and speedy too. Now I’m still a bit salty about the term, but if he keeps his current level of play up, he’s gonna be a bonafide top 5 player and I dont think I’ll have too much to complain about.

Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to offer some perspective from the other side, some of which others probably agree about. It’s nice to see him back and scoring goals like a beast

 

[rielledup]

There were actually Leafs fans on this website with so much brainrot that they thought we'd be better off not re-signing Matthews. Like we'd be better off with $13 million in cap space. I had to argue that signing Matthews was good actually. Keeping a no doubt top 5 talent in the world is worth it regardless of the contract, it is impossible to overpay players like this.

Comments like this don't make any sense but I'm not surprised by the ridiculous overreaction to two games. Nobody ever doubted that he was capable of putting up huge numbers in the regular season, we've already seen him do it. The question was/is can this team win in the playoffs with this core and the way the money is allocated.

"Impossible to overpay for a player like this." What a bizarre statement. So if the Leafs paid 15 mil a year for a guy who's never dominated in the playoffs and the team has one series win the entire time he's been here that would be just fine and dandy? Doesn't matter how much money they have left over to pay for secondary scoring eh?

 

[TheDoldrums]

Comments like this don't make any sense but I'm not surprised by the ridiculous overreaction to two games. Nobody ever doubted that he was capable of putting up huge numbers in the regular season, we've already seen him do it. The question was/is can this team win in the playoffs with this core and the way the money is allocated.

"Impossible to overpay for a player like this." What a bizarre statement. So if the Leafs paid 15 mil a year for a guy who's never dominated in the playoffs and the team has one series win the entire time he's been here that would be just fine and dandy? Doesn't matter how much money they have left over to pay for secondary scoring eh?

In his Hart year he was worth around ~$20 million for on-ice value in the models I've seen. And that was on a smaller cap, it's going to rise significantly in the coming years. All superstars are underpaid and would be making the NHL maximum if they were in a meritocracy and not a union. The very best players impact games and wins far more than their cap hit percentages, even at the high ends.

Of course having more cap room available is always going to be better for the team, that's a strawman. But getting a talent like Matthews is the hard part. Depth players are a dime a dozen and the difference between a good one and a bad one is tiny compared to the difference between having elite talent and not having it.

Players want to come play here because of players like Matthews. Bertuzzi and Klingberg are not joining the Leafs if they don't have a superstar to help pad their stats. Whatever it takes to sign Matthews would have been worth it, the rest is relatively easy to figure out once the biggest piece of the puzzle fits in.

 

[rielledup]

In his Hart year he was worth around ~$20 million for on-ice value in the models I've seen. And that was on a smaller cap, it's going to rise significantly in the coming years. All superstars are underpaid and would be making the NHL maximum if they were in a meritocracy and not a union. The very best players impact games and wins far more than their cap hit percentages, even at the high ends.

Of course having more cap room available is always going to be better for the team, that's a strawman. But getting a talent like Matthews is the hard part. Depth players are a dime a dozen and the difference between a good one and a bad one is tiny compared to the difference between having elite talent and not having it.

Players want to come play here because of players like Matthews. Bertuzzi and Klingberg are not joining the Leafs if they don't have a superstar to help pad their stats. Whatever it takes to sign Matthews would have been worth it, the rest is relatively easy to figure out once the biggest piece of the puzzle fits in.

I understand your point about how you value elite talent in a vacuum. I'm looking at it in the context of what's been going on with the Leafs the last few years.

If AM asked for something unreasonable like 15 mil and tried to squeeze every penny out of the Leafs again when they have one series win and they already struggle to find secondary scoring in the playoffs, it wouldn't be worth it. That was my perspective and others on here.

 

[francis246]

In his Hart year he was worth around ~$20 million for on-ice value in the models I've seen. And that was on a smaller cap, it's going to rise significantly in the coming years. All superstars are underpaid and would be making the NHL maximum if they were in a meritocracy and not a union. The very best players impact games and wins far more than their cap hit percentages, even at the high ends.

Of course having more cap room available is always going to be better for the team, that's a strawman. But getting a talent like Matthews is the hard part. Depth players are a dime a dozen and the difference between a good one and a bad one is tiny compared to the difference between having elite talent and not having it.

Players want to come play here because of players like Matthews. Bertuzzi and Klingberg are not joining the Leafs if they don't have a superstar to help pad their stats. Whatever it takes to sign Matthews would have been worth it, the rest is relatively easy to figure out once the biggest piece of the puzzle fits in.

It’s not even worth having this argument, I brought up the true value of players based on models and got told “go bring that talk to the main boards, they’ll laugh at how crazy you sound cause you’re not making sense”. Earlier this summer I tried to explain how hockey players are so underpaid considering their true value because of the restrictive salary and certain individuals just couldn’t understand that. Matthews salary/cap hit relative to his true value as an athlete is a steal. Same with McDavid, Makar and Draisaitl.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

It’s not even worth having this argument, I brought up the true value of players based on models and got told “go bring that talk to the main boards, they’ll laugh at how crazy you sound cause you’re not making sense”. Earlier this summer I tried to explain how hockey players are so underpaid considering their true value because of the restrictive salary and certain individuals just couldn’t understand that. Matthews salary/cap hit relative to his true value as an athlete is a steal. Same with McDavid, Makar and Draisaitl.

It doesn't matter what could happen on some fantasy magical world where there isn't an nhl salary cap. We all know that, in such a world, Matthews value in relation to mlse's revenue would be like 50+ million per year.

Unfortunately though, on THIS planet, in THIS dimension, in THIS universe, there IS an nhl salary cap where extra money to one player means less depth for the rest of the team.

In relation to Matthews recent direct comparables, both of Matthews contracts were significantly player-friendly. And the reason for that is term.

Anyways, the guy sure is off to one hell of a start.

 

[francis246]

It doesn't matter what could happen on some fantasy magical world where there isn't an nhl salary cap. We all know that, in such a world, Matthews value in relation to mlse's revenue would be like 50+ million per year.

Unfortunately though, on THIS planet, in THIS dimension, in THIS universe, there IS an nhl salary cap where extra money to one player means less depth for the rest of the team.

In relation to Matthews recent direct comparables, both of Matthews contracts were significantly player-friendly. And the reason for that is term.

Anyways, the guy sure is off to one hell of a start.

The whole point is that Matthews took less than what he was worth and it shows he actually cares about winning here. And anyone tried to claim that he is trying to milk the Leafs for every penny is kind of crazy IMO.


Even if you want to compare his salary to the current salary cap, his deal was never as bad as people made it out to be. It was always a reasonable team friendly deal. He would have gotten 14 or 15 million on the open market as a UFA. So he did take less. If you wanna argue about term I can hear that, it would look even better on an 8-year deal but we all know Matthews is a good businessman so that wasnt going to happen.

 

[francis246]

It doesn't matter what could happen on some fantasy magical world where there isn't an nhl salary cap. We all know that, in such a world, Matthews value in relation to mlse's revenue would be like 50+ million per year.

Unfortunately though, on THIS planet, in THIS dimension, in THIS universe, there IS an nhl salary cap where extra money to one player means less depth for the rest of the team.

In relation to Matthews recent direct comparables, both of Matthews contracts were significantly player-friendly. And the reason for that is term.

Anyways, the guy sure is off to one hell of a start.

Additionally that was my main point in the summer. The fact that fans have to even give a shit about whether a deal is player friendly or team friendly is exclusive to the NHL and it’s so stupid. No other league has this issue. The main focus should just be that he signed the deal and wants to be here. A restrictive cap creates this tension between players and fans because in this system we are hyper-focused on what players make because it directly affects everything else with the team. Archaic system and needs to change

 

[Gallagbi]

Wouldnt be a thread without someone complaining about contracts after a guy gets back to back hattys.

 

[Gary Nylund]

The perspective I had, and maybe others too had was:
Matthews was coming off a down year where his wrists had been hurt again for the 2nd time in 3 years to the point where his shot was noticeably worse. If his wrists looked bad at age 27-28, what would they look like at 32-33. Moreover, he looked slower and less dangerous last year. Now obviously I was putting a lot of stock into one year and ignoring the year prior where he got the hart, but I just never expected matthews to have a down year like that following his hart year. I didn’t expect him to bounce back as well as he has, I was worried we would be getting a 40-50 goals 90-95 points center at 13 million, which would not be a top 5 player, and thus would be an overpayment. With his wrists healthy he’s looking like the year prior, dangerous and speedy too. Now I’m still a bit salty about the term, but if he keeps his current level of play up, he’s gonna be a bonafide top 5 player and I dont think I’ll have too much to complain about.

Sorry for the rambling, just wanted to offer some perspective from the other side, some of which others probably agree about. It’s nice to see him back and scoring goals like a beast

Comments like this don't make any sense but I'm not surprised by the ridiculous overreaction to two games. Nobody ever doubted that he was capable of putting up huge numbers in the regular season, we've already seen him do it. The question was/is can this team win in the playoffs with this core and the way the money is allocated.

"Impossible to overpay for a player like this." What a bizarre statement. So if the Leafs paid 15 mil a year for a guy who's never dominated in the playoffs and the team has one series win the entire time he's been here that would be just fine and dandy? Doesn't matter how much money they have left over to pay for secondary scoring eh?

Nice to see some level headed posts here, well done. The best part about Matthews hot start is that he's under contract already, otherwise I might be going oh f***, there goes another million with each hatty LOL.

 

[IPS]

Playing 800 less powerplay minutes which works out to 57 entire games on the powerplay!

Can't imagine the level of vitriol you'd get for claiming Matthews > Ovi.. but you look at numbers like that and it just might be the reality.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Wouldnt be a thread without someone complaining about contracts after a guy gets back to back hattys.

True. You'd think everyone would just enjoy the goals without anyone mocking those that were critical of the terms of both contracts. That unfortunately wasn't the case.

I don't even understand the point they're making. We wanted our gm's to get longer terms for Matthews because we know how great he is.

Regarding the hat tricks, Ovy was the last to start a season with back to back hat tricks. Played 82 games and didn't even get to 50 goals. How is that possible? lol. They did win the cup that year though...

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't even understand the point they're making.

Yeah, i definitely got that part from your post

 

[CabanaBoy5]

True. You'd think everyone would just enjoy the goals without anyone mocking those that were critical of the terms of both contracts. That unfortunately wasn't the case.

I don't even understand the point they're making. We wanted our gm's to get longer terms for Matthews because we know how great he is.

Regarding the hat tricks, Ovy was the last to start a season with back to back hat tricks. Played 82 games and didn't even get to 50 goals. How is that possible? lol. They did win the cup that year though...

I bet Matthews would settle for 50 goals if it meant his team wins the Stanley Cup. Unfortunately, unless the script changes, or he gets injured, he's hitting 60-70 this season.

 

[Stephen]

2 hattricks in a row is the kind of elevation you're looking for in a $13 million player. (I know we're still paying him $11.6 milllion). AM34 is bringing the sizzle and the steak in early season and you just hope to build on that.

 

[Sypher04]

Can't imagine the level of vitriol you'd get for claiming Matthews > Ovi.. but you look at numbers like that and it just might be the reality.

Ovechkin’s real legacy is his goalscoring between the ages of 27-37 which is basically unprecedented and a staggering accomplishment. (45g average for the decade). It’s gonna be fun to see how Matthews ages but there’s no questioning his goal scoring is right there with OV to 26.

If Matthews stays healthy and scores 72 goals this year (scoring 6 in the first two games definitely improves the odds of 70), he would have the exact same number of goals as Ovechkin at the same age and in 38+ less games played.

 

[MCR74]

The peanut gallery is in full force on the main board now. They'll lose their collective minds if Matthews hits 60+ this year.