Player Discussion Auston Matthews (Captain Edition)

[Jojalu]

No for Christ's sakes the Islanders wouldn't make that trade, are you serious?

If Shanny becomes president they just might!!

 

[Stephen]

It's pretty absurd to claim that a guy who scored 69 goals, while being a Selke nominee, who kills penalties and blocks more shots than any other forward on the team "lacks work ethic".

If you actually want to see a guy with a questionable work ethic, watch Nylander in the defensive zone.

That’s not the context though. He isn’t being compared to William Nylander.

Matthews is in a race for best in era with guys like McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisaitl, etc.

The aim here is to win Stanley Cups, Hart Trophies, Art Ross, Rockets etc.

Can we actually say he works harder and is more dogged than those players as an alpha dog, franchise centerman?

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

It's pretty absurd to claim that a guy who scored 69 goals, while being a Selke nominee, who kills penalties and blocks more shots than any other forward on the team "lacks work ethic".

If you actually want to see a guy with a questionable work ethic, watch Nylander in the defensive zone.

He absolutely lacks work ethic that's why when he's not allowed to free wheel around like the regular season he disappears quietly into the night. But he comes up big in the post-game press conference to say his teammates are passengers, that isn't an issue for the highest paid player in the world.

 

[Kurtz]

That’s not the context though. He isn’t being compared to William Nylander.

Matthews is in a race for best in era with guys like McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisaitl, etc.

The aim here is to win Stanley Cups, Hart Trophies, Art Ross, Rockets etc.

Can we actually say he works harder and is more dogged than those players as an alpha dog, franchise centerman?

Well, first of all, McDavid is the best player of his era - there is no race there.

That aside, based on the fact that he's the only Selke nominee on that list, the only guy on the list who leads his team forwards in blocked shots, has led our team in hits in the playoffs when he was healthy, etc...it's absurd to question his work ethic.

As someone mentioned earlier, he doesn't have the blazing speed of guys like McDavid and Mackinnon which may, I suppose, fool some into thinking he's not as hard of a worker, but that's really a poor take imo.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

I was looking for one of my old posts in this thread, and saw this from February.

The highest paid player in the league and the captain of my team is a passenger. According to you, I shouldn't talk about it. Sorry, I personally choose to live in reality.

The entire page thread is a gold mine if you go through it

 

[Stephen]

Well, first of all, McDavid is the best player of his era - there is no race there.

That aside, based on the fact that he's the only Selke nominee on that list, the only guy on the list who leads his team forwards in blocked shots, has led our team in hits in the playoffs when he was healthy, etc...it's absurd to question his work ethic.

As someone mentioned earlier, he doesn't have the blazing speed of guys like McDavid and Mackinnon which may, I suppose, fool some into thinking he's not as hard of a worker, but that's really a poor take imo.

No, this just isn’t right. Matthews mails it in quite a bit and anyone watching closely can see when he’s engaged and when he’s in Stamkos passenger mode. The work ethic he displays beside Matthew Knies is noticeable. And Selke nomination play that doesn’t drive team success and comes at the expense of game changing offense. We’ve watched this player for 9 years to know when he’s playing well vs not, when he’s competing hard and when he isn’t.

 

[Kurtz]

No, this just isn’t right. Matthews mails it in quite a bit and anyone watching closely can see when he’s engaged and when he’s in Stamkos passenger mode. The work ethic he displays beside Matthew Knies is noticeable. And Selke nomination play that doesn’t drive team success and comes at the expense of game changing offense. We’ve watched this player for 9 years to know when he’s playing well vs not, when he’s competing hard and when he isn’t.

We may have to agree to disagree, because that reads like nonesense to me. Last year he scored 69 while being 3rd in Selke voting so the bolded statement is impossible to take seriously.

I think there's an absurd level of confirmation and recency bias at play here and general frustration overriding logic.

 

[Stephen]

We may have to agree to disagree, because that reads like nonesense to me. Last year he scored 69 while being 3rd in Selke voting so the bolded statement is impossible to take seriously.

I think there's an absurd level of confirmation and recency bias at play here and general frustration overriding logic.

What did we win with the 69 goal, Selke nominated Matthews in the playoffs? Exactly one game.

Whatever sounds good in a message board has not translated into anything of substance for the Leafs when it matters because he’s simply not bringing his 69 goal and Selke play into the playoffs. How can we trust the work ethic when the ability is there but it’s such a huge variance in results?

We will have to agree to disagree. And it will be up to Matthews to get back to the level he should be at.

 

[Kurtz]

What did we win with the 69 goal, Selke nominated Matthews in the playoffs? Exactly one game.

.....come on, dude.

 

[Stephen]

.....come on, dude.

Literally one game. Game 2 vs Boston.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Anyway to terminate a contract and redo it

 

[NVious]

We may have to agree to disagree, because that reads like nonesense to me. Last year he scored 69 while being 3rd in Selke voting so the bolded statement is impossible to take seriously.

I think there's an absurd level of confirmation and recency bias at play here and general frustration overriding logic.

The problem is that calling Matthews a 69 goal/Selke guy is a misrepresentation of who he is. A player is never just their best characteristics, if they were everyone would be a superstar. Huburdeau was a 120 point guy at one point, Thornton was a Hart winning nearly 130 point guy at one point.

Matthews is also:
1.Injury prone
2.Greedy for not just money, but minimal term so he can get more money
3.Not a playoff performer and has managed to lose everything in his career so far (including 4NF and even a massive upset when he was in the Swiss league)

When you look at him compared to McDrai in the playoffs:

Matthews has 0 4 point games and 4 3 point games/68gp, McDavid has 6 4 point games (1 5pt)/89gp, Drai has 8 4 point games (1 5 pt game)/89gp
Matthews has 0 hat tricks 3 2 goal games, McDavid has 1 hat trick and 3 2 goal games, Drai has 2 hat tricks (1 4g) and 5 2 goal games

Meanwhile we're paying him to produce like them and he has had all the chances in the world to do that.

Exploring moving him should be something the team did, he has had 9 years and failed in every iteration, he doesn't have one massive playoff performance to speak of even.

Season time he at times can look like Bergeron/Ovechkin hybrid who is engaged at both ends and sniping pucks. Come playoff time though he's just a worse version of Bergeron though, worse defensively, better offensively, at a massive cost. Bergeron's max cap hit was 10% AFTER he won a cup, Matthews already has a 16% cap hit and he hasn't done shit with it.

Berube won with less in St Louis, if Matthews is open to it and we can get a good offer, this team 1000% should explore moving him.

 

[Martin Skoula]

That’s not the context though. He isn’t being compared to William Nylander.

Matthews is in a race for best in era with guys like McDavid, Mackinnon, Draisaitl, etc.

The aim here is to win Stanley Cups, Hart Trophies, Art Ross, Rockets etc.

Can we actually say he works harder and is more dogged than those players as an alpha dog, franchise centerman?

If you have two sales guys, one can work harder than the other at making calls and doing deep research on the prospects to craft the perfect pitch every time, but if he feels bad about stepping on the prospects neck and getting such a lopsided deal that the guy on the other side of the phone is probably get fired over it, the one that does less homework is probably bringing in more value if he has no such qualms.

Working harder on and off the ice isn’t going to get him to start elbowing Barkov in the head and running D through the glass on the forecheck, it’s a complete change in mentality from being an employee of the NHLPA corporation currently working at the Toronto branch. The Dahlin crosscheck was the most hopeful for change I’ve felt and it went nowhere after the suspension.

 

[Nineteen67]

Did Tre say in his presser that even Matthews could be available? Would be nice if they could move him.

 

[Nineteen67]

We may have to agree to disagree, because that reads like nonesense to me. Last year he scored 69 while being 3rd in Selke voting so the bolded statement is impossible to take seriously.

I think there's an absurd level of confirmation and recency bias at play here and general frustration overriding logic.

There is recency bias with him ever spring, because he’s never been good in the Stanley Cup playoffs, or in Austria….. and he never tried to fail in college or junior, which I think is the biggest mistake he made in his career.

He’s a showcase player.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

No, this just isn’t right. Matthews mails it in quite a bit and anyone watching closely can see when he’s engaged and when he’s in Stamkos passenger mode. The work ethic he displays beside Matthew Knies is noticeable. And Selke nomination play that doesn’t drive team success and comes at the expense of game changing offense. We’ve watched this player for 9 years to know when he’s playing well vs not, when he’s competing hard and when he isn’t.

I just wish he would play as hard as he did going for the 70G mark at the end of the reg season and do it in the playoffs. He was possessed trying to get that cookie and as usual...he fell short.

 

[Tie Domi Esquire]

Did Tre say in his presser that even Matthews could be available? Would be nice if they could move him.

 

[Nineteen67]

View attachment 1043807

I though I heard something about changing the DNA….

 

[Confucius]

Anyway to terminate a contract and redo it

 

[Nineteen67]

I just wish he would play as hard as he did going for the 70G mark at the end of the reg season and do it in the playoffs. He was possessed trying to get that cookie and as usual...he fell short.

They were going 100% and the opposition was at 75% or less and they still couldn’t do it. The problem is lack of foot speed throughout the lineup.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

They were going 100% and the opposition was at 75% or less and they still couldn’t do it. The problem is lack of foot speed throughout the lineup.

I agree on the footspeed. We went from a very fast team to a plodding and dainty team over the course of 9 years. I am just amazed that teams have such a hard time finding bottom 6 guys who are willing to drill someone like FLA does. It must be stupidly hard to do for it to be so hard to find.

Lorentz was pretty good all year and then mostly disappeared in the playoffs. Hardly physical...falling down a lot (maybe he was injured) but we need some burners with bricks in their pockets to make Berube's system work properly.

 

[Nineteen67]

I agree on the footspeed. We went from a very fast team to a plodding and dainty team over the course of 9 years. I am just amazed that teams have such a hard time finding bottom 6 guys who are willing to drill someone like the FLA does. It must be stupidly hard to do for it to be so hard to find.

Lorentz was pretty good all year and then mostly disappeared in the playoffs. Hardly physical...falling down a lot (maybe he was injured) but we need some burners with bricks in their pockets to make Berube's system work properly.

It’s because the top guys set the tone. They don’t play hockey, which makes it harder for the bottom 6. In game 7 Domi, patches, Laughton and Lorentz were noticeable but none of them should be expected to drive the bus. They did their job. Once Matthews Marner and Nylander were pushed out there was no chance.

 

[Stephen]

The problem is that calling Matthews a 69 goal/Selke guy is a misrepresentation of who he is. A player is never just their best characteristics, if they were everyone would be a superstar. Huburdeau was a 120 point guy at one point, Thornton was a Hart winning nearly 130 point guy at one point.

Matthews is also:
1.Injury prone
2.Greedy for not just money, but minimal term so he can get more money
3.Not a playoff performer and has managed to lose everything in his career so far (including 4NF and even a massive upset when he was in the Swiss league)

When you look at him compared to McDrai in the playoffs:

Matthews has 0 4 point games and 4 3 point games/68gp, McDavid has 6 4 point games (1 5pt)/89gp, Drai has 8 4 point games (1 5 pt game)/89gp
Matthews has 0 hat tricks 3 2 goal games, McDavid has 1 hat trick and 3 2 goal games, Drai has 2 hat tricks (1 4g) and 5 2 goal games

Meanwhile we're paying him to produce like them and he has had all the chances in the world to do that.

Exploring moving him should be something the team did, he has had 9 years and failed in every iteration, he doesn't have one massive playoff performance to speak of even.

Season time he at times can look like Bergeron/Ovechkin hybrid who is engaged at both ends and sniping pucks. Come playoff time though he's just a worse version of Bergeron though, worse defensively, better offensively, at a massive cost. Bergeron's max cap hit was 10% AFTER he won a cup, Matthews already has a 16% cap hit and he hasn't done shit with it.

Berube won with less in St Louis, if Matthews is open to it and we can get a good offer, this team 1000% should explore moving him.

I always say Matthews is a five tool player who can play the game any way you want, but you don't ever get all the tools at the same, and he's chameleonic in his game style so you never know what he's going to look like Tuesday to Thursday to Saturday, or Game 1 to Game 7.

So to say he's a 69 goal scorer, absolutely correct. Shot blocking, faceoff machine. Correct. Two way, nearly Selke level center? A bit of a stretch but also correct. But that's the full spectrum of his abilities and not a descriptor of what you are going to get in a game. It's wildly all over the place and that has added to my frustration in his approach to the game.

Two good tells in terms of what you get out of him is how his stops and starts look when he's skating, and the second tell is his physical engagement. If he's closing the body, willing to finish a check into the end boards, he's going to be more engaged. If he's on cruise control, fishing around and dodging people to try and turnover a puck, it's probably going to be one of those nights.

 

[Caesium]

I just wish he would play as hard as he did going for the 70G mark at the end of the reg season and do it in the playoffs. He was possessed trying to get that cookie and as usual...he fell short.

Watching the team try to get Matthews 70 was all the confirmation I needed to not even watch the playoffs last year. They f***ed up their entire system to go for a vanity number instead of preparing for the playoffs.

 

[Tak7]

Did Tre say in his presser that even Matthews could be available? Would be nice if they could move him.

No.
He did not.