News Article: Auston Matthews - August 1st., Contract Crickets

[notbias]

I don't think that's true, are you sure?

3 years before last he had an average of 62 goal pace and 106 point pace, this is what I was talking about, but the 2019-2020 season is not far off. Was just trying to point out that the 2021-2022 season is not a huge outlier and he was putting up huge numbers.

Per year:
2019-2020 - 55G 93P
2020-2021 - 64G 104P
2021-2022 - 67G 119P

Last year:
2022-2023 - 44G 94P

Definitely worded that wrong though, my bad.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Only people who care about pace are the omega homers on this site.

Everybody else cares about actual results when doling out recording breaking contracts.

 

[shortfuze]

Explain to me how he is a better player.

Ok, WITH Matthews Toronto is a 2nd round exit team.

Producing "at a rate of" isn't the same as "Producing". Also, in those two years you listed, let me know how he produced in the playoffs compared to MacKinnon.

Who are Matthews comparables? Not MacKinnon or McDavid. One won a cup, and has a myriad of 90+ point season, while the other is unarguably the best player in the game.

Matthews comparable are:

Kucherov
Draisaitl
Robertson
Rantanen
Tkachuk
Pastrnak

Just off the top of my head.

Just curious. Are you saying matthews doesn’t have multiple 90 point seasons?

 

[Gary Nylund]

3 years before last he had an average of 62 goal pace and 106 point pace, this is what I was talking about, but the 2019-2020 season is not far off. Was just trying to point out that the 2021-2022 season is not a huge outlier and he was putting up huge numbers.

Per year:
2019-2020 - 55G 93P
2020-2021 - 64G 104P
2021-2022 - 67G 119P

Last year:
2022-2023 - 44G 94P

Definitely worded that wrong though, my bad.

At a glance, I see that his PTS/60 hovers at around 80% of what it was during 21-22. Not sure if that makes 21-22 an outlier, also not sure if that kind of production justifies paying him top dollar.

Only people who care about pace are the omega homers on this site.

Everybody else cares about actual results when doling out recording breaking contracts.

Fair point. I don't care much about pace, I just want to go deep in the playoffs and I'm beginning to wonder if I'll live long enough to see that happen or if will even ever happen the way things are going.

 

[PromisedLand]

I agree but unfortunately the CBA prevents things like this happening.

I mean he won't sign the deal, he has NTC and wouldn't wave it then what does the team do?

My decision tree would be:

1) Matthews signs at a reasonable cap hit
IF NOT
2) Ask Matthews to waive NTC/NMC and work with him for a sign and trade
IF NOT
3) Exercise the most extreme action (i.e. sit him in the pressbox). I mean you dress 12 forwards Matthews doesn't have to be one of those 12 if he is not allowing the first 2 options to play out.

 

[hobarth]

Only people who care about pace are the omega homers on this site.

Everybody else cares about actual results when doling out recording breaking contracts.

Do you think the Leafs would even make the playoffs without Matthews, TO's drafting record has been tepid at best and players such as Matthews enable TO to be an interesting place to sign for UFAs.

His shadow is quite all encompassing along with Marner's and JT's.

Being able to perform in the playoffs is important but not so much if the team can't even make the playoffs.

 

[PromisedLand]

Only people who care about pace are the omega homers on this site.

Everybody else cares about actual results when doling out recording breaking contracts.

I am pacing to date victoria secret models; but in reality thats not happening

 

[notbias]

Only people who care about pace are the omega homers on this site.

Everybody else cares about actual results when doling out recording breaking contracts.

We just handed out 5.5 million to someone who got 30pts last season, thoughts?

 

[PromisedLand]

Do you think the Leafs would even make the playoffs without Matthews, TO's drafting record has been tepid at best and players such as Matthews enable TO to be an interesting place to sign for UFAs.

His shadow is quite all encompassing along with Marner's and JT's.

Being able to perform in the playoffs is important but not so much if the team can't even make the playoffs.

If the goal is just make the playoffs and then whatever... then sure pay the core 4 whatever they want.

If the goal is to build a team that has the potential to make noise in the playoffs and go deep; and win a cup in one of those runs then you can't bendover to them.

I compared other teams' core and their team AAV to what Leafs are spending (will potentially spend); Leafs are one of the worst teams in terms of "bang for the buck"

Cap world - Comparison of Leafs with competitors

So here is what the comparison looks like Assuming Leafs have to go through ECF I will focus on Atlantic Division and handpick Metro teams who I think may end up in ECF again next season ATLANTIC LEAFS: Matthews (11.6), Tavares, (11), Marner (11), Nylander (7), Rielly (7.5) Total: 48 million...

forums.hfboards.com

The question is what do you expect as a fan? If you just want to make the playoffs then you have nothing to complain; if you want to see team succeed in playoffs, go deep and get a cup or two out of the runs then you shouldn;'t be happy.

There is 7 years worth of evidence of what this core does in the playoffs. I am not sure what more evidence would people even want.

And to answer your question; yes Leafs can make playoffs without Matthews. There are 8 teams that make the playoffs (3 from each division and 2 wildcard spots). Leafs can clearly make the playoffs sans Matthews if that is the only goal. (Leafs will have 11 AAV they can spend wisely instead of paying it to one guy).

 

[Dekes For Days]

I was responding to your argument comparing McDavid in 16/17 to Matthews in 18/19.

It was a smaller sample, but Matthews through his pre-signing period in 2018-2019 was pretty comparable to McDavid in 2016-2017, even when considering changes in league scoring. But again, you kind of bypassed the actual argument to focus in on this, which isn't that important.

 

[Stephen]

Ive seen it inflate value, but i cant think of an example contrary

I accept the general notion that regular season reputation and production forms a large part of a players value. But there are some limits one can take this. NHL is not Premier League, playoffs do matter in contract value.

 

[Gary Nylund]

We just handed out 5.5 million to someone who got 30pts last season, thoughts?

My first thought on reading this post is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at you completely ignoring playoff performance.

My second thought is that if this player performs for us in the playoffs for us the way he played last season, the contract will be a massive bargain.

And BTW, since you're a fan of "pace", I would think you're thrilled beyond what words can express at this guys playoff performance, which over a full 82 game season projects to 117 points. Now that's what I call pace baby!!

 

[Gallagbi]

I accept the general notion that regular season reputation and production forms a large part of a players value. But there are some limits one can take this. NHL is not Premier League, playoffs do matter in contract value.

It impacts reputation and that impacts value, so i do think it can influence value but i can't think of a situation playoff scoring negatively impacted value - can you?

 

[weems]

We just handed out 5.5 million to someone who got 30pts last season, thoughts?

Yes and that player scored 76 goals the previous 221 games played.

The player also started the '23 season coming off an injury and didn't really find their game until later in the season.

We gave 5.5 million to a player that's consistently shown they will provide around 20-25+ goals a season.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

We just handed out 5.5 million to someone who got 30pts last season, thoughts?

None whatsoever.

I’m not getting into a long winded pointless debate with you.

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

My first thought on reading this post is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at you completely ignoring playoff performance.

My second thought is that if this player performs for us in the playoffs for us the way he played last season, the contract will be a massive bargain.

And BTW, since you're a fan of "pace", I would think you're thrilled beyond what words can express at this guys playoff performance, which over a full 82 game season projects to 117 points. Now that's what I call pace baby!!

Honestly it’s hilarious that in his only playoff appearance Bertuzzi statistically had a better offensive showing in a 7 game series than any of our core guys have had.

 

[Stephen]

It impacts reputation and that impacts value, so i do think its l it can influence value but i can't think of a situation playoff scoring negatively impacted value - can you?

I don’t think anyone would take that position.

 

[hobarth]

Honestly it’s hilarious that in his only playoff appearance Bertuzzi statistically had a better offensive showing in a 7 game series than any of our core guys have had.

I thought that this might be factually wrong so I went to Marner's playoffs record first, in the last 2 years he has 22 pts. in 18 games played, while also having a +10 which to me suggests he's responsible/productive both on the PP and also at 5v5 while also being TO's top Pker.

Bertuzzi had a higher point per game average than Marner, 10 points in 7 games, but his +/- was -4 on a historically great team, this suggests to me that his productivity was basically PP oriented. Does this mean that Bert is a 1 dimensional player, he's only ever been in the playoffs once so we'll see.

 

[Cleetus]

Yes and that player scored 76 goals the previous 221 games played.

The player also started the '23 season coming off an injury and didn't really find their game until later in the season.

We gave 5.5 million to a player that's consistently shown they will provide around 20-25+ goals a season.

also showed up in the playoffs with the Bruins, 5 goals 5 assists in 10 games. but that does not matter to some here, they think winning in the regular season is good enough, considering how they praised the last GM, who was a total disgrace to this organization. or better yet making fun of the Avalanche GM saying he is clueless, as they marched into the playoffs and won the cup, some posters have no clue

 

[666]

1) Matthews signs at a reasonable cap hit
IF NOT
2) Ask Matthews to waive NTC/NMC and work with him for a sign and trade
IF NOT
3) Exercise the most extreme action (i.e. sit him in the pressbox). I mean you dress 12 forwards Matthews doesn't have to be one of those 12 if he is not allowing the first 2 options to play out.

There is something called the NHLPA, you might want to look into it.

 

[Stephen]

We just handed out 5.5 million to someone who got 30pts last season, thoughts?

Tyler Bertuzzi may or may not work out for the Leafs on his one year deal but his value as a player in the National League has historically not had much to do with points pace, raw points or production. He's simply here to be a middle six guy with the character profile of a guy who will get his nose dirty in a way our core players don't.

 

[notbias]

My first thought on reading this post is LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL at you completely ignoring playoff performance.

My second thought is that if this player performs for us in the playoffs for us the way he played last season, the contract will be a massive bargain.

And BTW, since you're a fan of "pace", I would think you're thrilled beyond what words can express at this guys playoff performance, which over a full 82 game season projects to 117 points. Now that's what I call pace baby!!

I was replying to someone who said pace doesn't matter only what actually happens........ it was clearly just a comment to point out how dumb it is to ignore pace.

I am happy Bertuzzi is on the team, I think he is a good add assuming he stays healthy.

 

[notbias]

also showed up in the playoffs with the Bruins, 5 goals 5 assists in 10 games. but that does not matter to some here, they think winning in the regular season is good enough, considering how they praised the last GM, who was a total disgrace to this organization. or better yet making fun of the Avalanche GM saying he is clueless, as they marched into the playoffs and won the cup, some posters have no clue

It was in reference to a post saying pace doesn't matter it is only what you actually do.... clearly Bertuzzi is not a 30pt player.

These were also his stats at 5v5 in the playoffs, he was a liability, but at least he scored.

I actually think he is a really good add and I am excited for it, but his point total is less important when his line is getting scored on more than they are scoring.

Once again, I think he is a good add despite being bad defensively, we need more offense and can sacrifice some D for it.

Also hilarious how you just praised his 10 points in the playoffs in a losing effort and then complained people only care about the regular season... he lost too.

 

[hfman]

3 years before last he had an average of 62 goal pace and 106 point pace, this is what I was talking about, but the 2019-2020 season is not far off. Was just trying to point out that the 2021-2022 season is not a huge outlier and he was putting up huge numbers.

Per year:
2019-2020 - 55G 93P
2020-2021 - 64G 104P
2021-2022 - 67G 119P

Last year:
2022-2023 - 44G 94P

Definitely worded that wrong though, my bad.

The Leafs were up 4-1 vs Boston with 12 minutes left in the 3rd period.

They were ON PACE to win that game.

So naturally, the Leafs should have protested after the game that they never really lost it, and that they were ON PACE to win it, so they should have been awarded the win

"on pace" lol

This 'statistic' absolutely takes the cake. Never heard of it until now.. I don't think I've ever heard of anything more ridiculous than this

 

[Squiffy]

The Leafs were up 4-1 vs Boston with 12 minutes left in the 3rd period.

They were ON PACE to win that game.

So naturally, the Leafs should have protested after the game that they never really lost it, and that they were ON PACE to win it, so they should have been awarded the win

"on pace" lol

This 'statistic' absolutely takes the cake. Never heard of it until now.. I don't think I've ever heard of anything more ridiculous than this

I thought we agreed we'd never speak of that here.

Now I have to drink whiskey.