Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[Divine]

Because I know you’ve been waiting on tenterhooks for weeks to trumpet Matthews doing it quicker and it hasn’t happened.

At best, he’ll do it in the same number of personal games, while handing out about 50 less assists.

I don't care about who does it faster. The season doesn't end after 72 games.

If you only include goalies on a goalie, Matthews has scored more.

Matthews is still on pace to beat 64 goals though, even with McDavid's 4 empty net goals vs Matthews 1 this season.

 

[Video Nasty]

I don't care about who does it faster. The season doesn't end after 72 games.

Auston Matthews already beat McDavid in total goals on a goalie in a season. McDavid always has a bunch more empty net goals than Matthews.

Matthews is still on pace to beat 64 goals though, even with McDavid's 4 empty net goals vs Matthews 1.

When you make that weird distinction in the second bolded part, it nullifies the first one. Who are you kidding?

 

[Divine]

When you make that weird distinction in the second bolded part, it nullifies the first one. Who are you kidding?

They're completely different points.

One is arguing that a player who scores goals faster doesn't make them the better goalscorer.

The other is arguing that the player who scores more goals past a goalie is the better goalscorer.

Agreeing with the second point doesn't nullify the first.

 

[Video Nasty]

They're completely different points.

One is arguing that a player who scores more goals faster is the better goalscorer.

The other is arguing that the player who scores more goals past a goalie is the better goalscorer.

Agreeing with the second point doesn't nullify the first.

I’m arguing neither.

I’m pointing out that you and other Matthews die hards were waiting with bated breath to trot out how Matthews potted 60 quicker in a season after McDavid did it a game quicker last year compared to Matthews in 2021-2022.

Shame he couldn’t do it this season. Maybe next year.

 

[Divine]

I’m arguing neither.

I’m pointing out that you and other Matthews die hards were waiting with bated breath to trot out how Matthews potted 60 quicker in a season after McDavid did it a game quicker last year compared to Matthews in 2021-2022.

Shame he couldn’t do it this season. Maybe next year.

I don't care if he beats McDavid to 60. What difference does that make? He beat McDavid to 50 goals - I didn't feel special about it.

The total output is what most people care about. I want to see if he can beat Ovechkin's 65 - who cares if he ties how many games McDavid took to score 60 or not.

What's next? We're going to start tracking the fastest to 10 goals?

 

[AhosDatsyukian]

Still think he winds up with 64. And never matches Ovi’s 65

 

[Video Nasty]

I don't care if he beats McDavid to 60. What difference does that make? He beat McDavid to 50 goals - I didn't feel special about it.

The total output is what most people care about. I want to see if he can beat Ovechkin's 65 - who cares if he ties how many games McDavid took to score 60 or not.

What's next? We're going to start tracking the fastest to 10 goals?

It’s all tracked.

 

[HighAndTight]

Its actually a very common 'argument' and extremely reliable when a significant sample size is used.

Common doesn't equal quality.

Also not at all reliable unless its an entire career and then only if it's a great player whose numbers were consistent.

There are very few players beyond the elite whose numbers pace out over a career.

 

[AvroArrow]

Actually not too crazy of a difference. There is.. but nothing crazy. You look at 2010 and 3 50 goal scorers. This season 3 50 goal scorers. More 40 goal scorers this day and age than before by a bit.

So yes these reviews fall victim to goal scorers quite often. Has happened to Mathews and Ovechkin alot since it was introduced.


Actually thats exactly how it works. Adjusted stats are 100% exactly that and why they exist. You can argue with the historians if you want, I didnt create them.

Using Matthews at 27 to predict what he will do at 35 is not how it works.

 

[abo9]

Still think he winds up with 64. And never matches Ovi’s 65

I'm a big Ovechkin fan. He led the next best goalscorer by 13, and now chasing the ultimate gialscoring record, despite playing through some extremely low scoring times during his prime.

Records and stats are meant to be broken, but would still be nice that when a player matches that 65 number again, its done in a dominant fashion.

 

[Frank the Tank]

I'm a big Ovechkin fan. He led the next best goalscorer by 13, and now chasing the ultimate gialscoring record, despite playing through some extremely low scoring times during his prime.

Records and stats are meant to be broken, but would still be nice that when a player matches that 65 number again, its done in a dominant fashion.

It was already done in a more dominant fashion... McDavid scored 64 goals and added 89 assists, which pretty much doubled Ovechkin's assists (only 47 assists during his 65 goals season).

 

[abo9]

It was already done in a more dominant fashion... McDavid scored 64 goals and added 89 assists, which pretty much doubled Ovechkin's assists (only 47 assists during his 65 goals season).

Fair point

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Matthews has really cooled off since hitting 50 goals. 9 goals in his last 17?

Hope he picks it up for the playoffs.

 

[Strangle]

Some here are forcing Matthews into the Ovechkin tier just as much which has a ways to go before becoming fact.

As far as longevity goes, it’s super unlikely that Matthews will get anywhere close. But he could score 600-700 career goals (how will Hyman stack up to that? Lol)

Which is pretty awesome

Matthews is tremendous but I put players who have clearly dragged otherwise mediocre teams a notch above. Guys who outpace the rest of their team by a drastic margin like Kucherov is doing now.

There’s nothing wrong with that. I just look at how good the players are

If someone has that extra, that’s just all the better. I wish Matthews had some of that dog in him, as a leafs fan. So far he doesn’t.

I’d love to dr mindbender some gilmour/clark DNA into Matthews and Serpentor the f*** out of him, but he’s what we have and he’s the best goal scorer in the league since Ovechkin and has matched Ovechkin’s best career years in output

Not too bad, if you ask me

 

[hamzarocks]

As far as longevity goes, it’s super unlikely that Matthews will get anywhere close. But he could score 600-700 career goals (how will Hyman stack up to that? Lol)

Which is pretty awesome

Matthews will end with 800 to 1000 goals.

He is one of the 4-5 guys to play hockey who could end the GOAT goal scorer

Gretzky
Lemiux
OV
Bobby Hull
Matthews

There isn't anyone in the NHL who can score as consistently as Matthews

Rocket#3 in 8 years. If he was an elite play maker hed be a threat to Crosby/OV all time as players

Since hes an average passer he will only challange for Goal scoring records

 

[Strangle]

Matthews will end with 800 to 1000 goals

He is one of the 4-5 guys to play hockey who could end the GOAT goal scorer

Gretzky
Lemiux
OV
Bobby Hull
Matthews

It’s not imposssible, but it’s very difficult to be confident about those kinds of totals.

How many players have scored 800 goals in the NHL? 3, I think?

It takes much more than skill and opportunity, it takes a lot of luck as well, in regard to health and injuries and how is body ages into his 30’s

Guys have to play at a high level for 20 years to hit those numbers, as well as be exceptionally productive for most of them.

Not easy and in no way guaranteed

 

[JukofYork]

Using Matthews at 27 to predict what he will do at 35 is not how it works.

Its actually exactly how it works. I highly suggest you look into it. For some reason you are making the assumption that he will fall off? What if he doesnt? What is his production remains the same.

This is why its called adjusted stats.

Common doesn't equal quality.

Also not at all reliable unless its an entire career and then only if it's a great player whose numbers were consistent.

There are very few players beyond the elite whose numbers pace out over a career.

Do you know what on pace for means? Do you know what adjusted stats means? I think maybe you dont.

Are we forgetting that he has a personal highlight reel probably 50 goals long of crazy individual efforts from his heyday?

No.

 

[AvroArrow]

Its actually exactly how it works. I highly suggest you look into it. For some reason you are making the assumption that he will fall off? What if he doesnt? What is his production remains the same.

You're just flat out wrong lol, I literally have Matthews as my avatar lmao I would be boosting him if anything.

99 percent of players see a big drop off from age 27 to 35, no idea what you're using to compare and predict. If you're gonna predict how he'll perform the next 2-3 years sure, even 4 years lets say, but 8 years from now ? It's silly.

 

[authentic]

As far as longevity goes, it’s super unlikely that Matthews will get anywhere close. But he could score 600-700 career goals (how will Hyman stack up to that? Lol)

Which is pretty awesome



There’s nothing wrong with that. I just look at how good the players are

If someone has that extra, that’s just all the better. I wish Matthews had some of that dog in him, as a leafs fan. So far he doesn’t.

I’d love to dr mindbender some gilmour/clark DNA into Matthews and Serpentor the f*** out of him, but he’s what we have and he’s the best goal scorer in the league since Ovechkin and has matched Ovechkin’s best career years in output

Not too bad, if you ask me

Matthews is going to score more than 700 career goals. A few more seasons like this and he'll get over 500 in his age 29 season. He will easily score another 200+ goals after that point as long as he avoids too much injury.

 

[PaulD]

Why is it every time I come to this thread to see whats going on with Matthews quest for 70, it's constant arguments about Ovie and him. jeez guys.

probably starts when some leafer calls or implies mathews the greatest goal scorer.
Gets the OVs off the couch.

Best Goal scoring season ive seen in years was CM97 last season. 64 !

 

[JukofYork]

You're just flat out wrong lol, I literally have Matthews as my avatar lmao I would be boosting him if anything.

99 percent of players see a big drop off from age 27 to 35, no idea what you're using to compare and predict. If you're gonna predict how he'll perform the next 2-3 years sure, even 4 years lets say, but 8 years from now ? It's silly.

I mean you can say I am wrong but this is a very common used method in stat adjusting. This is why the term is also called on pace for. The term is loosely worded. He is on pace for which doesnt mean its a guarantee but it is a possibility due to the sample size.

BTW Ovechkin is probably my favorite player to play in the league in the last 15 years so you having a Mathews avatar doesnt really mean much. It seems like you are going out of your way to look like a reasonable leaf fan. No need really.

Also a player reaches their peak at 28. So no there is not a huge drop off between 27-35

 

[AvroArrow]

I mean you can say I am wrong but this is a very common used method in stat adjusting. This is why the term is also called on pace for. The term is loosely worded. He is on pace for which doesnt mean its a guarantee but it is a possibility due to the sample size.

BTW Ovechkin is probably my favorite player to play in the league in the last 15 years so you having a Mathews avatar doesnt really mean much. It seems like you are going out of your way to look like a reasonable leaf fan. No need really.

Also a player reaches their peak at 28. So no there is not a huge drop off between 27-35

Dude people use on pace for to predict scoring for the same season, or maybe for 1-2 seasons later, no a decade after what part of that don't you get ?

 

[HighAndTight]

Its actually exactly how it works. I highly suggest you look into it. For some reason you are making the assumption that he will fall off? What if he doesnt? What is his production remains the same.

This is why its called adjusted stats.


Do you know what on pace for means? Do you know what adjusted stats means? I think maybe you dont.


No.

Yes I understand what a bad faith argument is.

 

[JukofYork]

Dude people use on pace for to predict scoring for the same season, or maybe for 1-2 seasons later, no a decade after what part of that don't you get ?

Sorry thats not how it works. You take both players and compare them to a large sample size. Ovie 7 seasons in. Mathews 7 seasons in and then you project the stats career wise and compare. This is done a lot. Especially by statiticians and things like statmuse and others.

Anyone suggesting this cant be done because "the guy might not last" is a terrible argument.

Sorry. Your opinion doesnt really matter here. Math and stats do. So maybe relax a little and you might learn something instead of throwing out fake stats like: (99% of players fall off huge after the age of 27). There is literally no reason to do this to yourself at all. We get it. You are a reasonable leaf fan...or at least pretending to be.

Yes I understand what a bad faith argument is.

Yes, I see that. If you understand maybe you should stop doing it

 

[PensandCaps]

probably starts when some leafer calls or implies mathews the greatest goal scorer.
Gets the OVs off the couch.

Best Goal scoring season ive seen in years was CM97 last season. 64 !

Nah, Stamkos in 2011. 60 goals in that scoring environment is more impressive than Ovi's and McDavid's 60 goal seasons. (only four 40 goal scorers that year)

Also Stamkos scored the most even strength goals as well.