ATD2025 Draft Thread

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Jack Campbell is one of the guys I was referring to when I said there were other defensemen with comparable/better peaks than Reardon and Makar.

That said, I ranked Campbell extremely high in the per-merger project, higher than everyone else, so I'm biased.
Do you consider quality of number of competition in your analysis? Or do you just speak of relative peak against his peers?

I know I'm probably much lower on old players than many in this draft, but I definitely give much more weight to recent Norris than retro awards in 1888.
 
I definitely give much more weight to recent Norris than retro awards in 1888.
Yeah. By that reasoning...

To play in only a 6-team league 75+ years ago,... Red Kelly sucks compared to Hedman. Heck, give me Giordano.
 
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I think there's big difference between original six era and 1888. You won't hear me slandering Howe either.
 
Like there's a big difference between 1888 and 1918.

Nobody here is drafting anyone from 1888. Paton was a marginal candidate in the oldest era HOH project.
 
I think there's big difference between original six era and 1888. You won't hear me slandering Howe either.

The idea (in my opinion, at least) is that stars were stars because they could transcend era. There is no watershed moment in history where all the sudden the stars of previous eras (in their primes) suddenly couldn't compete. We can take this to another thread if you wish, since the evidence will require the use of currently undrafted players, but you can make an overlapping chain of players active star players from 1881 to present day.

You said you like Howe- alright, we can work from there a little bit. Howe debuted in 1946-1947. Milt Schmidt was second in Hart voting that year. He was in the midst of a career that began in 36-37 and ended in 54-55.

So we are back to 1936-37. Babe Siebert won the Hart that year, in the midst of a care that spanned from 25-26 to 37-38.

Alright, let's go back to 1925-1926. Frank Nighbor was in the midst of his career that began in 1912-13 and didn't end until 1929-30.

Guys like Newsy Lalonde, Joe Malone, Didier Pitre, Clint Benedict, etc were in the 1912-13 NHA. Newsy Lalonde debuted in the FAHL in 1904-05. Pitre in the 1904 FAHL season. Guys active in 1904? Russell Bowie, Frank McGee, Lester Patrick, Moose Johnson, Hod Stuart, Tommy Phillips. Stuart and Bowie go back to 1899. And there is an undrafted who played in 1899 who debuted (I think) in 1881.

And that is just working with guys who are already drafted and off the top of my head. There are dozens of players who fill in gaps.

Like there's a big difference between 1888 and 1918.

Nobody here is drafting anyone from 1888. Paton was a marginal candidate in the oldest era HOH project.
Jack Campbell debuted in 1885- I did draft someone who was active in 1888.
 
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those earlier guys were not good. But I do consider it easier to have separation from the pack when player count is smaller.

IIRC Campbell was awarded rerro norris for 1888, which is why I used that year.
 
Dawson City selects 7x Barry Ashbee Trophy winner and still the only blue liner in NHL history to record a hattrick in a Cup Finals game.

Eric Desjardins, D
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Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying those earlier guys were not good. But I do consider it easier to have separation from the pack when player count is smaller.

IIRC Campbell was awarded rerro norris for 1888, which is why I used that year.
I know that’s an argument that people make, but it doesn’t hold that much water for me. As I noted, stars transcend eras- a guy like Lalonde, for example, played in a supposedly low competition environment early on (the FAHL and OHA) and didn’t really stand out. Then he was a star in the supposedly higher competition NHA and PCHA.

Pitre didn’t stand out all that much in the FAHL or ECHA, yet was a NHA star. Joe Malone, same concept.

Holy smokes, I just realized @VanIslander has those three. Haha, that’s quite the coincidence, I promise I’m not going after your team, I’m using those guys as examples as to why the early eras are worthy of respect.

I think the hockey history community has been underrating the earlier eras because of a lack of information. Hopefully, we are seeing that change. There is just too much evidence of players succeeding across eras for me to think that those eras didn’t have good, historically great and relevant players.
 
I don't want to derail this thread and don't really have time for good back and forth in any case, but I will say that this "chaining back" argument needs just few late bloomers and it will start to overvalue older guys.
 
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I don't want to derail this thread and don't really have time for good back and forth in any case,

I'll talk about this whenever you do have the time, just let me know when works for you.

but I will say that this "chaining back" argument needs just few late bloomers and it will start to overvalue older guys.

Are they late bloomers, or players who weren't good enough to play earlier in their careers because more talented players were in the way? I think we can (and should) be looking at this puzzle from both sides.
 
Drafting HHOFers is certainly not on the 'overvalue' side; any HHOFer is worthy of being drafted here, ... though some not 'til round 25.
 


Will forever be one of my favourite moments - and calls - ever.

"Here he is again...SCORES! DES-JAR-DINS! And the Canadiens win..in overtime! His third goal of the game..and the series is a brand new one!"

They just don't make 'em like Bob Cole anymore. :(


And Mike Lange just passed away a few days ago.

The play by play folks today have absolutely no color compared to those legends.
 
And Mike Lange just passed away a few days ago.

The play by play folks today have absolutely no color compared to those legends.

"Scratch my back with a hacksaw!"

"He smoked him like a bad cigar!"

"Slap me silly, Sidney!"

"Elvis has just left the building!"

"Oh Lord Stanley, Lord Stanley..bring me the brandy!"

"Get in the fast lane, grandma. The bingo game is ready to roll!"

"I'll meet you in the schoolyard, baby. For all the marbles."

It was an honour to watch games called by Mike Lange. He was outstanding. My dad and I had a few Penguins Cup run VHS tapes in the early 90's that we watched so many times they wore out. He's been a diehard Pens fan since 1984.
 
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"Scratch my back with a hacksaw!"

"He smoked him like a bad cigar!"

"Slap me silly, Sidney!"

"Elvis has just left the building!"

"Oh Lord Stanley, Lord Stanley..bring me the brandy!"

"Get in the fast lane, grandma. The bingo game is ready to roll!"

"I'll meet you in the schoolyard, baby. For all the marbles."

It was an honour to watch games called by Mike Lange. He was outstanding. My dad and I had a few Penguins Cup run VHS tapes in the early 90's that we watched so many times they wore out. He's been a diehard Pens fan since 1984.

Unmistakable voice and imagination.

Plus he just loved hockey and was a good human being, most importantly.

Started calling games for the Pens in 1974.
 
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Leafs select

Johnny Bower G
One of the biggest risers in the most recent goalie project. I'd take him over a handful of goalies who were picked multiple rounds ago.

Anyway, I was really sweating out these picks because I thought both of them would be taken by now, but luckily they're both still available for Hogsmeade...

First, I want a proper RW for my Olmstead-Stewart duo, and it needs to be a pretty specialized player: a lot of speed and creativity, while being a multi-line puck carrier with a personality to enjoy taking on the role of handling neutral zone transition. Clearly the best option for that is Helmuts Balderis, who while being slanted toward goal-scoring in Riga where he had to do all of the work, was actually a very balanced scorer for the stronger CSKA and Soviet teams, which is exactly what I need at 2RW.

This allows me to move Claude Provost down to the 3rd line, where he'll form an elite shutdown duo with the captain and 1C of the most recent Cup winner, and 2-time Selke winner (soon to be 3-time if betting odds are to be believed), Aleksander Barkov.

@Leaf Lander
 
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