ATD 2023 Draft Thread II (see post 1,069 for ATD Final voting result)

[Sturminator]

I can take a list

For some reason, I can't start a conversation with you.

S'all good. I'll probably just get up and pick at 4 in the morning anyway.

 

[rmartin65]

Harvey Pulford:

View attachment 650457View attachment 650458

Which book is this? Now I know where the popular misconception that Pulford didn't rush until 1901- primary sources have him rushing, albeit infrequently, well before then. He also turned into quite an accomplished rusher by the mid 1900s.

 

[VanIslander]

@overpass

1 hour, 40 minutes remaining...

I am here to make my pick thereafter (if Sturm left a list before his bed).

It'll still be mid-evening when my clock begins, and i don't got to sleep until midnight local time, so I will be taking my player in a couple of hours.

I am finishing a Wednesday; you guys will start one. May it be good!

 

[Habsfan18]

Which book is this? Now I know where the popular misconception that Pulford didn't rush until 1901- primary sources have him rushing, albeit infrequently, well before then. He also turned into quite an accomplished rusher by the mid 1900s.

That’s The Trail of the Stanley Cup Volume 1. As I mentioned before, it’s a very handy resource but there are a few inaccuracies (mainly on the statistical side). But yes, I’ve also come across a few reports of him rushing pre-1901. Not often. Very infrequently, actually. But he did.

 

[VanIslander]

I suck at internet stuff

 

[overpass]

Ottawa will take one of the great defensive forwards of all time. Detroit’s manager said he was one of four pillars of their 1950s dynasty, calling Howe, Kelly, Lindsay, and Pavelich “my winning nucleus.”

Marty Pavelich, LW

 

[VanIslander]

Pavelich is a great LEFT winger.

 

[overpass]

Pavelich is a great LEFT winger.

Thanks, updated. I had the impression that he switched positions to match up against opposing stars if needed, but in any case I plan to play him at LW.

Fun fact about Pavelich: he’s 95 years old now and still going strong. He hung up his skates only last year, and still skis 100 times a year.

Ex-Red Wing Marty Pavelich skiing at 95, honored by Montana rink naming

Pavelich is the last surviving member of Detroit's 1950 Stanley Cup championship team.

www.mlive.com

 

[VanIslander]

Claude Pronovost also switched wings to meet a particular opponent: the right winger shut down Hull but his coach asked him at times to change wi gs to take on an annoying aging winger named Richard who needed checking on the left side.

 

[VanIslander]

The Icebreakers select HHOF "Kamikaze" Glenn Anderson, the nicknamed right winger who is 4th in NHL playoff career points with his 6 Stanley Cups. In addition to his 1984 & 1987 Canada Cups heroics, his willingness to be as physical as needed to make clutch plays is legendary. As was his SPEED, rated by NHL coaches as the fastest in the league.

Anderson struck fear into opposition goalies. Not only did he have the raw skills - speed, skating, big shot - but he had a great big mean streak. [a team captain said] "Andy does it in an unassuming fashion. He's very subtle. But anyone who wants to take advantage of him will pay the price."

 

[Hitru]

Metropolitans listpick Craig Ramsay

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Chicago selects Art Ross, D


Part of TDMM's bio:

Height: 5'11 (adjusted 6'3")
Weight: 190 lbs. (adjusted 230)
Shoots: Left

Stanley Cup Winner (1907, 1908)

Montreal Gazette Dec 26 1908 said:
Lester Patrick is stated to be as in good condition as he was when he played for the Wanderers two years ago, but this is doubtful. It is considered by the challengers that he has finer points in his stickhandling than Ross, but Ross is a stronger man at withstanding attacks and he has almost as spectacular and certainly a more aggressive manner of going up the ice. In Montreal Ross is regarded as the greatest defense player in hockey.
Pittsburgh Press March 21 1908 said:
A discussion was started yesterday to the relative merits of Ross and the late Hod Stuart as hockey players. Nearly all who attended the Gardens in recent years have seen the great cover point, who met such an untimely death, play and regard his as the greatest ever. But there are many who declared Ross is superior, and not a few will watch his work tonight to make their own deductions.


Awards and Achievements
MHL Pro 1st All Star Team (1907)
ECAHA 1st All-Star Team (1908)

Points Amongst Defensemen
MHL Pro (a few notable names): T-2nd (with Si Griffis) (1907)
ECHA: T-1st (1908)
NHA: 1st (1912), 2nd (1913), 2nd (1916), T-4th(1910)*, 5th (1911)

*A newspaper article found states Ross was actually 3rd in this year, and stood alone at 3rd.

 

[Sturminator]

Ross is a really nice pick.

I find the adjusted height and weight figures rather gauche, but Ross was a great player and it is at least good to have some perspective on what an athlete he was respective to his peers. One of the few guys still hanging around this spot in the draft who might actually be a legitimate steal.

 

[bogart]

Regarding Gartner: He started the same season as Messier. If you can get a guy who scored more goals in 19 seasons than Messier did in 25 seasons at pick 253 that's good value.

 

[tinyzombies]

Ross is a really nice pick.

I find the adjusted height and weight figures rather gauche, but Ross was a great player and it is at least good to have some perspective on what an athlete he was respective to his peers. One of the few guys still hanging around this spot in the draft who might actually be a legitimate steal.

We were weighing between Ross and Stapleton. Ross’s bio had the hyperbole that he could do it all, but we went with the concrete numbers and video of Stapleton and his special teams abilities and playoff efforts. Who knows?

 

[Sturminator]

We were weighing between Ross and Stapleton. Ross’s bio had the hyperbole that he could do it all, but we went with the concrete numbers and video of Stapleton and his special teams abilities and playoff efforts. Who knows?

No one does. We all have to use our imagination a little bit sometimes.

I think the superstars of Ross' era (of which he was surely one) would have been great players in any era. How great is a wide-open question.

 

[tinyzombies]

No one does. We all have to use our imagination a little bit sometimes.

I think the superstars of Ross' era (of which he was surely one) would have been great players in any era. How great is a wide-open question.

There is video of college play from back then and some of those players look shockingly great on those "skates" and Ross was considered one of the best in the world, so it's likely what you are saying is true. Probably also true that a lot of potentially great players decided not to continue playing the game, especially after it got rougher when it turned pro.

I also love the story that he learned to play on the site of what later became the Montreal Forum. By coincidence the field was concave and water would collect in the middle and then freeze, so the local kids would play hockey there. It then became a gigantic roller palace also called the Montreal Forum. Then the Forum itself in its many iterations.

When I'm back in Montreal I love doing a bike tour of all these hockey history sites. You can have a coffee where the first Cup was won, eat sushi where the Westmount (Montreal) Arena was, eat/drink at the Forum, have a coffee across from the old MAAA, sit in the square between the old Windsor Hotel and the Sun Life building both of which have strong ties to the NHL (and the Canadiens). Sit up or even play hockey in the winter in Jeanne Mance Park where French-Canadiens first organized to play the game at the Crystal Palace. Bike past Sprague Cleghorn's old house in Westmount where he grew up. The first mention of streethockey is from Sprague and all those Westmount boys - the Patricks, Ross, etc. On and on.

 

[bogart]

One thing I think casual fans forget is that the pre-WHA players really played just for the love of the game. The average salary in 1972 was $18k (including unskilled workers) and the average NHL salary was $25k.

 

[tinyzombies]

One thing I think casual fans forget is that the pre-WHA players really played just for the love of the game. The average salary in 1972 was $18k (including unskilled workers) and the average NHL salary was $25k.

Yea, but houses back then cost 10k.

 

[bogart]

Yea, but houses back then cost 10k.

Inflation has nothing to with the fact that NHL players were playing for peanuts. In 1970-71 Orr made $75k. In 1971 Yaz made $167k.

 

[tinyzombies]

Inflation has nothing to with the fact that NHL players were playing for peanuts. In 1970-71 Orr made $75k. In 1971 Yaz made $167k.

i'm sure they felt they deserved a larger share. also, i saw some video graph that shows the most popular sport by decade and hockey was #1 in the 40s and 50s. But it is all relative also, Orr could have bought 4 houses a year on his 75k salary.

 

[Sturminator]

One thing I think casual fans forget is that the pre-WHA players really played just for the love of the game. The average salary in 1972 was $18k (including unskilled workers) and the average NHL salary was $25k.

This should also frame our understanding of the careers of men like Ted Lindsay and Jimmy Thomson, who were punished (and in the case of Thomson perhaps kept out of the Hall) for their role in the original NHL union effort.

Thomson truther for life.

 

[bogart]

i'm sure they felt they deserved a larger share. also, i saw some video graph that shows the most popular sport by decade and hockey was #1 in the 40s and 50s. But it is all relative also, Orr could have bought 4 houses a year on his 75k salary.

In Canada. When I was a kid baseball was #1 in the US. It's a well known (and easily researchable on the internet) fact. The price of houses is irrelevant to this discussion.

 

[nabby12]

Less chat, more picks.

 

[bogart]

Less chat, more picks.

One has nothing to with the other.