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ATD 2011 Draft Thread II

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Leafs Forever

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Jul 14, 2009
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monster_bertuzzi said:
Why get upset taking active players is a huge red flag around here. There is also someone I can't believe hasn;t been snagged yet.
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Except Ovechkin is one of the very few young active players that has built up a rather good all-time resume already, and he is already admist the best LW's in the draft.
 

advantage2006

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Feb 4, 2006
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LW: Aurel Joliat
xAurel+Joliat+1925+2.bmp

I made sure to PM the next team.
 
jarek

jarek

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Aug 15, 2009
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monster_bertuzzi said:
...Except we have never seen him past the 2nd round of the playoffs.
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Because a guy who has 40 points in 28 career playoff games is a failure, right? TEAMS get past the 2nd round.. there are very few players who could individually carry their teams through the playoffs. Singling him out and using the fact that his team hasn't had great playoff success is a massive mistake.
 
BraveCanadian

BraveCanadian

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Jun 30, 2010
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Boy Wonder said:
Because a guy who has 40 points in 28 career playoff games is a failure, right? TEAMS get past the 2nd round.. there are very few players who could individually carry their teams through the playoffs. Singling him out and using the fact that his team hasn't had great playoff success is a massive mistake.
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Padding his stats.. he's a "choker".

If/when he wins then we'll revise him to "clutch".

:)


Seriously though LW is historically a weak position compared to the others and Ovi is already making a case for being in the discussion.
 
EagleBelfour

EagleBelfour

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Jun 7, 2005
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Sturminator said:
I wasn't aware of this part of Firsov's reputation. What have you got on that, EB? All I knew was that he was considered the greatest Russian of the 60's and that he had a huge shot.



I know that Firsov, like Kharlamov, got Soviet League MVP love out of proportion to his scoring (relative to other players) during that time. This is one of the mysteries of the Soviet League. Did Firsov and Kharlamov play a similar game? I don't know. Were the Soviets giving bonus points for aesthetic brilliance over effectiveness, as some have claimed vis-a-vis Kharlamov? I doubt it, but the discrepancy between scoring and MVP votes for both men is striking.



Based on his Soviet League results, Firsov seems to have already gone into decline by 1972, and there were already two very good scoringline left wingers (one of whom was Kharlamov) on that Soviet team - arguably the two best Russian players of the series, actually. It may simply be the case that there was no place for Firsov on that team, which is no knock on Firsov; he was just old.
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- I have quote on that. I'll show it when I'll make my biography.

- As for now, I can't comment on that. I still need to do soem research. I'll see what I can find :)

- Firsov was definitely in decline in 1972. There's no doubt however that if his coach had been in place, he would of been selected. I also have some quotes debating that he would of made the team if he had been able to adapt to the new coaching staff. Again, I'm gonna include it in my biography :)

seventieslord said:
Doesn't canon say he is one of the best orwards available? I don't foresee many people disagreeing with you.

Personally, I don't agree with the canon opinion of Firsov but in the other direction - I think we might overrate him a bit.
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- Firsov seldom get taken in the Top-100. He was taken 120 last draft. That's for me, his underrating him. Maybe I have the wrong impression though, Firsov should be taken between 60 and 90 (last range, still don't know enough on me to place him).

- Can I ask you why? As I say often, I'm always ready to hear a good argumentation, even if it's against one of my player.


Thanks 100 time Jarek for those infos, I will SURELY use them :)
 
seventieslord

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Boy Wonder said:
Kinda hard to do that over the internet.
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It was obvious...

EagleBelfour said:
- Firsov seldom get taken in the Top-100. He was taken 120 last draft. That's for me, his underrating him. Maybe I have the wrong impression though, Firsov should be taken between 60 and 90 (last range, still don't know enough on me to place him).

- Can I ask you why? As I say often, I'm always ready to hear a good argumentation, even if it's against one of my player.
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- I hadn't looked at where he was selected before, I was more thinking about the fact that our HOH list said he was about 85th all-time. So his selection is in line with that.

- Well, my opinions of players are based on a conglomerate of whatever information I can get on them, and last year I had the opportunity to speak with Morris Mott, who played against Firsov for a few years at the Worlds, and in the NHL for a few years immediately following expansion. I asked him if Firsov would have starred in the NHL and his reply was, "I don't know if he would have starred..." (I take from this, that he thought Firsov could surely play, just maybe not star) - and Morris was not much more than a decent 3rd liner and PK specialist for an NHL expansion team and had the chance to compare his own skills to those of Firsov.

With that said, that is just one source to go along with the rest we have, and my opinion of Firsov simply "averages" that in with what else we have access to.
 
EagleBelfour

EagleBelfour

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Jun 7, 2005
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seventieslord said:
- Well, my opinions of players are based on a conglomerate of whatever information I can get on them, and last year I had the opportunity to speak with Morris Mott, who played against Firsov for a few years at the Worlds, and in the NHL for a few years immediately following expansion. I asked him if Firsov would have starred in the NHL and his reply was, "I don't know if he would have starred..." (I take from this, that he thought Firsov could surely play, just maybe not star) - and Morris was not much more than a decent 3rd liner and PK specialist for an NHL expansion team and had the chance to compare his own skills to those of Firsov.

With that said, that is just one source to go along with the rest we have, and my opinion of Firsov simply "averages" that in with what else we have access to.
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Well, ok. I don't know what really to make of this quote. I'll make my biography and see if this quote is confirmed of denied.
 
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