Assuming Kucherov wins third Art Ross, he is above which of these groups of players...

[GlitchMarner]

How high would that put him all-time?

Group A: Above guys like Selanne, Kurri, Brett Hull (top 55 to 75 type players)

Group B: Above guys like Malkin, Forsberg, Dionne (top 45 to 54 type guys)

Group C: Above guys like Bossy, Trottier, Sakic, Yzerman (top 35 to 40 type players)

Group D: Roughly on par with Guy Lafleur (top 25 all-time)

 

[jigglysquishy]

Above B, around C.

Around 35-40th all time

I have Bossy, Trottier, and Yzerman all close all time and he would be right in there. I have Sakic slightly ahead of them all.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Roughly on par with Lafleur, but not above. He doesn’t have a Conn Smythe, which isn’t the only factor, but comes into play in comparisons like this.

 

[RevengeOfTheDrai]

How is Kucherov 35-45 region with these accolades

Kucherov:
3 Art Rosses
Hart
2 cups
Objectively great playoff performances

This was all done playing in a McDavid era btw.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

How is Kucherov 35-45 region with these accolades

Kucherov:
3 Art Rosses
Hart
2 cups
Objectively great playoff performances

This was all done playing in a McDavid era btw.

I think he's tracking for top 20ish. Still missing the rocket and conn smythe. The top guys have won everything so you have to start nitpicking.

 

[TheGuiminator]

On par with Lafleur

A 3rd Art Ross (including one back-to-back), 2nd Hart, 2nd Lindsay, 5th 100-point season, along with an excellent playoff résumé is starting to look like an all-time great career. Especially in the McDavid era, where he’s been one of the only guys able to keep up with him offensively for so many years.

If he keeps going like this over the next few seasons, it's gonna be a three horse race for best European player ever between him, Jagr, and Ovechkin.

Sooner than later, he’s gonna be knocking on the door of the top 15–10 all-time.

 

[Video Nasty]

Clearly D. He’s an absolute gem and if he keeps it up, he’s only going higher.

 

[amnesiac]

B

could make the argument over Bossy and Trottier

 

[Video Nasty]

On par with Lafleur

A 3rd Art Ross (including one back-to-back), 2nd Hart, 2nd Lindsay, 5th 100-point season, along with an excellent playoff résumé is starting to look like an all-time great career. Especially in the McDavid era, where he’s been one of the only guys able to keep up with him offensively for so many years.

If he keeps going like this over the next few seasons, it's gonna be a three horse race for best European player ever between him, Jagr, and Ovechkin.

Sooner than later, he’s gonna be knocking on the door of the top 15–10 all-time.

True, but it’s unlikely he wins his second Hart and Lindsay this season.

 

[Johnny Tomala]

B

 

[Staniowski]

Another Art Ross doesn't matter.

He's certainly better than Lafleur, better than Ovechkin.

He's a better scorer than everybody pre-Gretzky/pre-Makarov.

 

[BB79]

C, could also have gone B too. Only went C because he isn't done playing yet. Assuming he'll do more

 

[Mrb1p]

Hes in C.

 

[authentic]

Another Art Ross doesn't matter.

He's certainly better than Lafleur, better than Ovechkin.

He's a better scorer than everybody pre-Gretzky/pre-Makarov.

Is he actually better than Lafleur though?

 

[bobholly39]

I voted option D - on par with Lafleur. He's having an absolutely terrific career.

No weaknesses in his resume. Amazing peak (last season will hold up all-time as a truly great one, 2018-2019 too, and this one is very strong again), amazing prime, and fantastic playoffs (peak + overall playoffs).

Roughly on par with Lafleur, but not above. He doesn’t have a Conn Smythe, which isn’t the only factor, but comes into play in comparisons like this.

Is that even a weakness though? At the end of the day voting on conn smythe is subjective. I personally had him as favorites for Smythe in both 2020 and 2021. He certainly has the Smythe worthy performances.

Lafleur is very strong for overall playoffs - and if you want to argue he's ahead of Kucherov for playoffs, you might be right, he probably still is. I just don't really see how the smythe itself would be a differentiator. It's more about Lafleur's top 5 playoffs probably being slightly better than Kucherov's top 5

 

[The Macho King]

Idk I think where he sits w/r/t the Yzerman/Sakic tier is interesting. He's clearly in it - i could he convinced he's over it.

 

[DFC]

Idk I think where he sits w/r/t the Yzerman/Sakic tier is interesting. He's clearly in it - i could he convinced he's over it.

Steve Yzerman is my childhood hero, but Kucherov > Yzerman. Better than Sakic too.

I think the answer here is D. Kucherov is approaching top-25.

Another thing to consider is, while he didn't win a Conn Smyth, Kucherov is likely TB's best playoff performer. Possibly Vasilevskiy, but I'd have a hard time being convinced Kucherov wasn't the all around most important guy in that three year window.

 

[Bank Shot]

He seems pretty clearly above guys like Yzerman and Sakic.

The only thing that hurts him is longevity, but to me peak is more important than length of peak.

 

[GlitchMarner]

He seems pretty clearly above guys like Yzerman and Sakic.

The only thing that hurts him is longevity, but to me peak is more important than length of peak.

1989 Yzerman and 2001 Sakic can match up against the best of Kucherov (in the regular season). You can at least argue for them. Maybe his top two or three seasons are better than theirs, though.

 

[DFC]

1989 Yzerman and 2001 Sakic can match up against the best of Kucherov (in the regular season). You can at least argue for them. Maybe his top two or three seasons are better than theirs, though.

Kucherov has done this multiple times now, yeah. Winning 3 Art Rosses in an era dominated by a top 10 (5?) all time player is really a statement.

To me, the line for Kucherov was always Jagr. Or at least that's where he's trending.

Another thing in Kucherov's favor is, because his game is SO cerebral, he should age well. Injuries could of course derail that, but he and McDavid should be the favorites for next year's Art Ross. He's been an incredibly consistent top scorer.

 

[psycat]

Kucherov has done this multiple times now, yeah. Winning 3 Art Rosses in an era dominated by a top 10 (5?) all time player is really a statement.

To me, the line for Kucherov was always Jagr. Or at least that's where he's trending.

Another thing in Kucherov's favor is, because his game is SO cerebral, he should age well. Injuries could of course derail that, but he and McDavid should be the favorites for next year's Art Ross. He's been an incredibly consistent top scorer.

For me Jagr is firmly ahead of Crosby(and Ovechkin) and more akin to McDavid(so far) than either of those. If McDavid never wins an individual trophy again I am not sure I would rank his offensive peak above Jagr, leaning towards yes but far from clear cut.

So to me what you are saying is that Kucherov would edge Crosby+Ovechkin out and I am not so sure I agree with that, not entirely far fetched though.

Then again there are more things than individual trophies+cups else everyone should rank Lidström above Bourque.

 

[DFC]

For me Jagr is firmly ahead of Crosby(and Ovechkin) and more akin to McDavid(so far) than either of those. If McDavid never wins an individual trophy again I am not sure I would rank his offensive peak above Jagr, leaning towards yes but far from clear cut.

So to me what you are saying is that Kucherov would edge Crosby+Ovechkin out and I am not so sure I agree with that, not entirely far fetched though.

Then again there are more things than individual trophies+cups else everyone should rank Lidström above Bourque.

Nah, I just put Jagr below that. Not far below, but below. I have Kucherov below Ovy and Crosby, but I think Kucherov still has a lot of prime left to make up some ground.

One of the things that makes Kucherov difficult to rank is his prime years came later, and it took him some time to warm up. He's not a natural talent or a physical specimen. He's a guy who figures the game out over time, and is still figuring it out.

This might not be his last Art Ross. So I still have him below Jagr, but I think he has the inside track.

 

[psycat]

Nah, I just put Jagr below that. Not far below, but below. I have Kucherov below Ovy and Crosby, but I think Kucherov still has a lot of prime left to make up some ground.

One of the things that makes Kucherov difficult to rank is his prime years came later, and it took him some time to warm up. He's not a natural talent or a physical specimen. He's a guy who figures the game out over time, and is still figuring it out.

This might not be his last Art Ross. So I still have him below Jagr, but I think he has the inside track.

But how can you have Jagr below players with 1 and 2 Art Ross respectively if you place such value on them?

 

[Nadal On Clay]

I’ve said it multiple times this season, Kucherov has a good chance to pass Jagr all time when it’s all said and done. Reaching the top 10 will depend on his longevity, but I don’t think you can put him out of the top 30 as of today.

 

[Dirtyf1ghter]

How high would that put him all-time?

Group A: Above guys like Selanne, Kurri, Brett Hull (top 55 to 75 type players)

Group B: Above guys like Malkin, Forsberg, Dionne (top 45 to 54 type guys)

Group C: Above guys like Bossy, Trottier, Sakic, Yzerman (top 35 to 40 type players)

Group D: Roughly on par with Guy Lafleur (top 25 all-time)

I was ranking the greatest players (among those who had completed their careers), and I had a guy like Selanne at 50th, Dionne & Bossy top 20, Sakic around 10th, Lafleur was 5th behind Gretzky, Orr, Howe, and Lemieux.

And yet I ranked Doug Harvey, Elmer Lach, Georges Vezina...

I think you're overestimating the number of legends.