Assist vs. Goal

[Conspiracy Theorist]

I value goal scorers more than all around wingers who cannot shoot or score.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Anyone else notice that members of the Finnish Five have come in here to say assists aren’t important, goals are?

I wonder why?

I’ll take Barzal (the “assist guy”) over laine (the “goal guy”) everyday of the week

 

[ijuka]

Anyone else notice that members of the Finnish Five have come in here to say assists aren’t important, goals are?

I wonder why?

I’ll take Barzal (the “assist guy”) over laine (the “goal guy”) everyday of the week

I think you meant, you take Mikko Rantanen over David Pastrnak. Oh wait, what? Right I forgot, Finland only has one player...

Anyway, only goals scored matters. If a line scores a total of 80 goals, whether they score 240 points on them or 80 points on them, that's irrelevant. One of the reason I can't stand "This line has xxx points in total over xxx games!". Come on, just count the goals. Who cares about the points they have? That doesn't change the amount of goals scored in the slightest.

 

[HOUSUTON]

Cheechoo > Thornton

ikr

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

I think you meant, you take Mikko Rantanen over David Pastrnak. Oh wait, what? Right I forgot, Finland only has one player...

Anyway, only goals scored matters. If a line scores a total of 80 goals, whether they score 240 points on them or 80 points on them, that's irrelevant. One of the reason I can't stand "This line has xxx points in total over xxx games!". Come on, just count the goals. Who cares about the points they have? That doesn't change the amount of goals scored in the slightest.

Not sure why you quoted me, we are in complete agreement here. You said Morgan Rielly has been better offensively than Rantanen this season. I agreed. I mean, 9 goals is better than 8 goals, right?


Also, it’s unfair to laine to compare him to a superior player like Pastrnak. That’s just mean to Finnish fans, as even they wouldn’t pretend laine is on Pastrnak’s level

 

[Kamus]

Ask gretzky....
He used to get paid when he was a kid, 1 dollar for every goal and 2 for every assist........
Checkmate

 

[Foppberg]

Both.

The pure goal scorers are invaluable. But the guys who can make impossible passes and see things that others can't to set other guys up for goals that wouldn't have happened without them are also invaluable.

Example: Monahan. Great shot, pure scorer. But do you think has the career he has so far without Gaudreau? Not likely.

 

[LakeLivin]

IN GENERAL: Goal > Assist >> Secondary Assist

I highlighted "in general" because a lot of people don't seem to view the question that way and focus on exceptions. And while there are legitimate exceptions (a player carrying the puck through the entire other team all the way up the ice who makes a great pass to a teammate who then shuffles it to an open teammate who stuffs it into a gaping net), there are even more where the secondary assist adds almost nothing to the play (uncontested pass in a non-danger area which ultimately ends up in a goal).

If I could look at just one "relatively simplistic" stat to evaluate a players offense, I'd like to see something along the lines of a point for goals, some fraction for primary assists (maybe .5 to .7?) and even less for secondary assists (perhaps half of a primary assist). But I'd settle for just leaving out secondary assists and reporting primary points at 1 each.

 

[garyturner3]

Obviously a goal....

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Not sure why you quoted me, we are in complete agreement here. You said Morgan Rielly has been better offensively than Rantanen this season. I agreed. I mean, 9 goals is better than 8 goals, right?


Also, it’s unfair to laine to compare him to a superior player like Pastrnak. That’s just mean to Finnish fans, as even they wouldn’t pretend laine is on Pastrnak’s level

I think he is and certainly in the future.

 

[bobholly39]

I mean in a vacuum - a goal is better than an assist.

But not all goals nor assists are created equal.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

I think he is and certainly in the future.

Oh, I should have been more clear, as I thought it was more obvious.

I meant the fans outside of yourself and the other members of The Finnish Five

My bad

 

[Psych0dad]

Anyone else notice that members of the Finnish Five have come in here to say assists aren’t important, goals are?

I wonder why?

I’ll take Barzal (the “assist guy”) over laine (the “goal guy”) everyday of the week

Everyone is allowed to make mistakes.

It's not a Finnish thing, it's a logic thing. Goals are the deciding factor in hockey, everything else is secondary.

80% are saying the right thing, goals are a higher value. That 80% can't be explained by "Finnish five". This is an absolutely normal opinion among everyone who knows what decides hockey games.

 

[tony d]

They hold similar value for me.

 

[Kaako Kappo]

How in the hell are people already turning this into some sort of a Laine thread? My god. And of course it's a Leafs fan in the middle of it.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

You need a team that has it's share of both to win, so.....

 

[Critical13]

I think Goals are a bit more valuable then primary assists, and twice as valuable as secondary assists.

 

[abo9]

Very difficult question. I answered goals are more important with an overly simplistic reasoning:

There are 2 assists record for each 1 goal, thus as they are recorded I value goals more.

Purely on a scoresheet, An assist needs a goal to happen, a goal don't need an assist to happen.

But hockey is a team sport first and foremost so as players go, you need both playmakers and goalscorers on your team to succeed.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

Everyone is allowed to make mistakes.

It's not a Finnish thing, it's a logic thing. Goals are the deciding factor in hockey, everything else is secondary.

80% are saying the right thing, goals are a higher value. That 80% can't be explained by "Finnish five". This is an absolutely normal opinion among everyone who knows what decides hockey games.

Which player do you think is better:

A 40 goal, 70 point guy
Or
A 25 goal, 90 point guy. This guy is also better defensively (and by a significant margin)

I’ll let you figure out which player is which


As for the thread, I actually agree a goal is more “important”. I just think if players are miles apart in points and ability, I don’t think the player with more goals is better than the player who is significantly out producing him offensively in points, while being better in all other areas of the game (like my example above)

 

[Conspiracy Theorist]

Which player do you think is better:

A 40 goal, 70 point guy
Or
A 25 goal, 90 point guy. This guy is also better defensively (and by a significant margin)

I’ll let you figure out which player is which


As for the thread, I actually agree a goal is more “important”. I just think if players are miles apart in points and ability, I don’t think the player with more goals is better than the player who is significantly out producing him offensively in points, while being better in all other areas of the game (like my example above)

If they are close in points I'll take the guy who has twice as many goals.

 

[ManofSteel55]

If all your team can do is pass and cannot score....

you cannot win.

If all your team can do is shoot, you cannot win either.

I hate this argument. There is the no right answer. A great playmaker can get goals out of a plug. A good shooter who can only shoot won't score much if he doesn't have a playmaker to get him the puck. There is far more to it than "goals win games", although that is an important part of it too. The real truth, is any player who can only do one thing won't be successful in the NHL anyway. Most guys who are playmakers first can snipe goals if necessary, and most snipers are adequate playmakers as well.

 

[Neutral Hockey Fan]

If they are close in points I'll take the guy who has twice as many goals.

90 vs 70. That’s not close

Unless you believe a 70 point guy and a 50 point guy are close