Assessing the Leafs’ Trade Needs and Targets

[Budz]

Scott Laughton is another option

From a fit, style and cap cost - not sure there is anyone else I would want more than Laughton.

There are more expensive versions I love too…

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

From a fit, style and cap cost - not sure there is anyone else I would want more than Laughton.

There are more expensive versions I love too…

Yanni Groude would be a GREAT fit too.

Laughton does have that extra year though

 

[conFABulator]

Yanni Groude would be a GREAT fit too.

Laughton does have that extra year though

Laughton has a reasonable hit though. That second year has value if we are comfortable having him as 3C next year too.

 

[Strangle]

I don’t think the leafs should spend any assets at the trade deadline.

This core has been begging for someone to arrive in town at the 11th hour to bail them out their entire careers.

Tell them loud and clear that the answers they’re looking for need to come from the room.

If they go 3 rounds or make a final this year, bring in some help next year.

Hold your assets until this team proves they have the heart and courage to not find a way to lose every matchup they find themselves in.

Keep on giving up futures and prospects to help a team that refuses to help themselves is foolish. Hold them and draft well instead.

 

[Budz]

Yanni Groude would be a GREAT fit too.

Laughton does have that extra year though

We disagree there though.

Gourde does not move the needle for me.

 

[ACC1224]

Domi is not terrible he's just not a center

What does he bring other than poor defensive play and stupid penalties?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I don’t think the leafs should spend any assets at the trade deadline.

This core has been begging for someone to arrive in town at the 11th hour to bail them out their entire careers.

Tell them loud and clear that the answers they’re looking for need to come from the room.

If they go 3 rounds or make a final this year, bring in some help next year.

Hold your assets until this team proves they have the heart and courage to not find a way to lose every matchup they find themselves in.

Keep on giving up futures and prospects to help a team that refuses to help themselves is foolish. Hold them and draft well instead.

You need to be realistic, at some point they are going to make a move.

 

[Captain Crunch]

OP - good assessment.

Anyone who understands hockey, knows we need a 2/3 Centre. We need to spread out scoring and the 3rd line HAS to help with goals.

I prefer getting a player with term.

I am also probably more willing to pay a steep price for that player. No one is off limits (Cowan, Danford, Minten even Knies in the right hockey trade, I would do).

The other need is a PP QB Dman.

These are very difficult trades to make but Brad has to put his mark on the team with a Hockey trade. I would be much less excited about a UFA trade deadline “guy”.

I don’t agree about trading Knies, but just for the sake of it, realistically who would you trade him for, or have him included in a trade for?

 

[thusk]

We disagree there though.

Gourde does not move the needle for me.

Depend was you think about moving the needle because yes Gourde can move the needle.

Exemple
Compher who finished with 5 goal and 3 assist in 20 game. He move the needle because he scored important goal at key time who help avs to win key game.

same as gourde in tampa
Same as Eller in washington or Bozak in STL...

Get a 3C who can help to have production from depht in playoff, You don't need to get a PPG in plsyrr to have a great impact, just 2, 3 goal at some key moment can make all the difference of the world between winning and losing. Watch where leafs lost last 5... Their depht had been outplayed all the time except the year of o'reilly until Knies get hurt.

 

[conFABulator]

We disagree there though.

Gourde does not move the needle for me.

Gourde, Laughton, Granlund—they all bring something, but in 3rd or 4th line roles, the upgrade over Kampf, Robertson, Steeves, or Holmberg is incremental at best. We’d want any of them, but only if the acquisition cost reflects that incremental impact.

Same with defense. If it’s not a clear top-four guy, why bother? A bottom-pair addition isn’t likely to be a meaningful upgrade over Benoit, Timmins, Myers, or Hakanpää.

 

[conFABulator]

I don’t think the leafs should spend any assets at the trade deadline.

This core has been begging for someone to arrive in town at the 11th hour to bail them out their entire careers.

Tell them loud and clear that the answers they’re looking for need to come from the room.

If they go 3 rounds or make a final this year, bring in some help next year.

Hold your assets until this team proves they have the heart and courage to not find a way to lose every matchup they find themselves in.

Keep on giving up futures and prospects to help a team that refuses to help themselves is foolish. Hold them and draft well instead.

I don’t think it’s about refusing to give up assets, but about being smart with them. Overspending isn’t the move, but if Steeves, Holmberg, Niemelä, Kampf, or Järnkrok aren’t part of next year’s plan, it makes sense to use them to improve the bottom six now. Including mid-to-late-round picks in the right deal is fine too.

That said, we have to know our limits. Other teams might overpay, and that’s fine—we can’t get caught in a bidding war. Set the value, stick to it, and be ready to walk away if the price goes beyond what these players are worth to us.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Gourde, Laughton, Granlund—they all bring something, but in 3rd or 4th line roles, the upgrade over Kampf, Robertson, Steeves, or Holmberg is incremental at best. We’d want any of them, but only if the acquisition cost reflects that incremental impact.

Same with defense. If it’s not a clear top-four guy, why bother? A bottom-pair addition isn’t likely to be a meaningful upgrade over Benoit, Timmins, Myers, or Hakanpää.

You make Groude, Granlund, Laughton, or even Towes the 3C, no the upgrade is not incremental over Robertson, Steeves, Holmberg and Kampf.

especially Steeves and Robertson, one of them is in the AHL, the other shows flashes but never puts it all together.

Kampf would probably be in a deal for Granlund or Granlund just to make the money work.

That leaves us with Holmberg.

So Granlund, Groude or Laughton are incremental upgrades on Holmberg? what? that's just not true, It's never been true.

 

[Budz]

I don’t agree about trading Knies, but just for the sake of it, realistically who would you trade him for, or have him included in a trade for?

It’s hard as a fan, I just hope Brad is unturning every stone and seeing if a team wants a shake up through a true hockey trade.

A couple of names:

Phil Danualt
Cozens
Norris
McTavish
Horvat

 

[notdoneyet]

Jake Evans
Gourde
Tanev

All have grit
All fit our narrative harder to play against

Evans has more skill than he has a chance to show
Gourde will fight for the front of the net
Tanev will punish defenders every chance he gets

 

[conFABulator]

You make Groude, Granlund, Laughton, or even Towes the 3C, no the upgrade is not incremental over Robertson, Steeves, Holmberg and Kampf.

especially Steeves and Robertson, one of them is in the AHL, the other shows flashes but never puts it all together.

Kampf would probably be in a deal for Granlund or Granlund just to make the money work.

That leaves us with Holmberg.

So Granlund, Groude or Laughton are incremental upgrades on Holmberg? what? that's just not true, It's never been true.

Holmberg and Reaves were already out of the healthy lineup last night, so adding someone means another player has to come out. Who are we willing to remove?

I’m not saying Gourde (or Granlund/Laughton) isn’t better than some of the guys I’ve listed, but what’s the real impact? Let’s take Gourde as an example. If he becomes the 3C, Domi isn’t coming out of the lineup, so Robertson likely gets bumped.

From an offensive perspective, this is a wash. Robertson and Gourde are nearly identical in ES points per 60 this year (NR ranks 180th in the league, YG is 182nd). This is surprising since Robertson had zero production in his first 20 games, but they’re now equal. Over 13 minutes a night, how much does that difference really move the needle?

Defensively, Gourde is a stronger player and could help with PK duties or closing out games. But again, who comes out? We’ve already got Matthews, Marner, Kampf, Knies, McMann, Lorentz, Dewar, and even Tavares and Nylander doing well in those roles. Adding Gourde might upgrade a few spots, but does it fundamentally change the lineup? Not really. Domi on his wing doesn’t give us a true shutdown line.

Reconfiguring the lines to maximize Gourde’s impact creates its own issues—do we really want to cut Matthews or Marner’s minutes by shifting them?

The same trickle-down effect applies to Granlund or Laughton. I’m not against pursuing any of them, especially for depth and injury insurance, but we need to temper expectations and avoid overpaying. These are good players, but their potential impact in our current lineup is incremental, not transformational.

 

[Skullz]

Need a two-way centre and a RHD. In that order.

 

[NinjaKick]

Blake Coleman peaks my interest, plays center, solid at faceoffs, responsible defensively and can chip in offensively, works hard every game... a spark plug and depth player... what do you guys think?

 

[Menzinger]

The team needs depth down the middle and depth scoring. A 3C addresses both of these issues, and should be prioritized above all other needs

 

[thusk]

Holmberg and Reaves were already out of the healthy lineup last night, so adding someone means another player has to come out. Who are we willing to remove?

I’m not saying Gourde (or Granlund/Laughton) isn’t better than some of the guys I’ve listed, but what’s the real impact? Let’s take Gourde as an example. If he becomes the 3C, Domi isn’t coming out of the lineup, so Robertson likely gets bumped.

From an offensive perspective, this is a wash. Robertson and Gourde are nearly identical in ES points per 60 this year (NR ranks 180th in the league, YG is 182nd). This is surprising since Robertson had zero production in his first 20 games, but they’re now equal. Over 13 minutes a night, how much does that difference really move the needle?

Defensively, Gourde is a stronger player and could help with PK duties or closing out games. But again, who comes out? We’ve already got Matthews, Marner, Kampf, Knies, McMann, Lorentz, Dewar, and even Tavares and Nylander doing well in those roles. Adding Gourde might upgrade a few spots, but does it fundamentally change the lineup? Not really. Domi on his wing doesn’t give us a true shutdown line.

Reconfiguring the lines to maximize Gourde’s impact creates its own issues—do we really want to cut Matthews or Marner’s minutes by shifting them?

The same trickle-down effect applies to Granlund or Laughton. I’m not against pursuing any of them, especially for depth and injury insurance, but we need to temper expectations and avoid overpaying. These are good players, but their potential impact in our current lineup is incremental, not transformational.

Its not a term of number

Okay robertson started to produce last month but when play will become physical and he will need to fight to go on tight space, do you think it will still the same or he will come back prwtty useless?

Dewar is fine defensively but a black hole offensively, he can be easily out of line up, especially if you bring in someone who will take his ice time defensively.

The best move at TDL are rarely the most skilled player or player with best stats but the player who bring grit, emotion and all those stuff.

Barbashev
Lehkonen/Manson
Coleman/Goodrow

All those player had pretty high impact

 

[conFABulator]

Its not a term of number

Okay robertson started to produce last month but when play will become physical and he will need to fight to go on tight space, do you think it will still the same or he will come back prwtty useless?

Dewar is fine defensively but a black hole offensively, he can be easily out of line up, especially if you bring in someone who will take his ice time defensively.

The best move at TDL are rarely the most skilled player or player with best stats but the player who bring grit, emotion and all those stuff.

Barbashev
Lehkonen/Manson
Coleman/Goodrow

All those player had pretty high impact

Yanni Gourde would be a great addition to the team, but we need to be cautious about overbidding against teams that might value him in a bigger role than he’d play for us.

The key is assessing how much impact he can realistically have in the role we’d use him for. If adding someone like Gourde truly makes us a legitimate contender, then a higher acquisition cost is justified.

Otherwise, we need to stay disciplined and realistic about his value relative to his role on our team.

 

[thusk]

Yanni Gourde would be a great addition to the team, but we need to be cautious about overbidding against teams that might value him in a bigger role than he’d play for us.

The key is assessing how much impact he can realistically have in the role we’d use him for. If adding someone like Gourde truly makes us a legitimate contender, then a higher acquisition cost is justified.

Otherwise, we need to stay disciplined and realistic about his value relative to his role on our team.

nobody will evaluate Gourde higher than a 3C. The only 2C who really can play in a top 6 are Nelson and Granlund.

Gourde is a guy who will do everything he can to help his team to win, will be the 1st one to slide and block shot, who will protect his teammate even if hes one of smallest player, a guy who will go back after his team giving a lead and playing a hell of a shift to bring some momemtum back, maybe get 3 maybe 4 pts in a 7 game series but those pts who came at key time when the team need it the most.

Its a little bit like tanev or oel, its not about stats but everything they bring to the game.

 

[conFABulator]

nobody will evaluate Gourde higher than a 3C. The only 2C who really can play in a top 6 are Nelson and Granlund.

Gourde is a guy who will do everything he can to help his team to win, will be the 1st one to slide and block shot, who will protect his teammate even if hes one of smallest player, a guy who will go back after his team giving a lead and playing a hell of a shift to bring some momemtum back, maybe get 3 maybe 4 pts in a 7 game series but those pts who came at key time when the team need it the most.

Its a little bit like tanev or oel, its not about stats but everything they bring to the game.

I think we’re on the same page here. What I was responding to were some suggestions in other threads that seemed like overpays for Gourde.

I floated the idea of something like Kampf, Steeves, and maybe a mid-round pick for Gourde but got feedback that it was too low. What do you think his value is to us?

 

[thusk]

I think we’re on the same page here. What I was responding to were some suggestions in other threads that seemed like overpays for Gourde.

I floated the idea of something like Kampf, Steeves, and maybe a mid-round pick for Gourde but got feedback that it was too low. What do you think his value is to us?

Steeves don't have any value, they're a ton of Steeves kind of player going on waiver... Kampf is 4th probably 600k overpay, it value is pretty low too. You will not get anything with those kind of player.

For me it would look closer of a 2nd pick and b prospect

 

[conFABulator]

Steeves don't have any value, they're a ton of Steeves kind of player going on waiver... Kampf is 4th probably 600k overpay, it value is pretty low too. You will not get anything with those kind of player.

For me it would look closer of a 2nd pick and b prospect

Ok. We can agree to disagree and will never probably find out who was closer to right anyway.

My thinking was that Seattle should value Kampf more than a late second rounder. If they are going to be losing Gourde, I would think Kampf for two more years at what will not be an overpay with the increased cap would be of interest.

If Steeves is not a B prospect, I don't know what is. He would be in the NHL on most teams right now.

Anyway, I do want Gourde or a player like him. I don't want to over pay

 

[thusk]

Ok. We can agree to disagree and will never probably find out who was closer to right anyway.

My thinking was that Seattle should value Kampf more than a late second rounder. If they are going to be losing Gourde, I would think Kampf for two more years at what will not be an overpay with the increased cap would be of interest.

If Steeves is not a B prospect, I don't know what is. He would be in the NHL on most teams right now.

Anyway, I do want Gourde or a player like him. I don't want to over pay

At 25, not sure we should call steeves a prospect... He will probably be a carreer AHL player...

Seattle already having stephenson, Benier and Wright down the middle and maybe a Catton who will join the team next year... Not sure they really need an other C to replace gourde