Aside from speed, what attributes do players lose as they age?

[OKR]

This is a hot take:

While I 100% agree that hockey IQ is the least likely to be lost as you age and can even be improved (Ekholm being a prime example), I do think it's possible for a player to lose hockey IQ as well. Alzner's physical skills and his decision-making all deteriorated as he aged.

Imo it’s more about the fact that as their physical ability deteriorates, they can’t execute the ”high IQ” plays they could before. As in that the decision is correct in theory, but their body doesn’t allow them to execute it.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Imo it’s more about the fact that as their physical ability deteriorates, they can’t execute the ”high IQ” plays they could before. As in that the decision is correct in theory, but their body doesn’t allow them to execute it.

That's a fair statement. It's just I've seen many Dman who's physical skills deteriorate a ton like Ekholm who still remain effective thanks to significantly improving their IQ.

 

[OKR]

That's a fair statement. It's just I've seen many Dman who's physical skills deteriorate a ton like Ekholm who still remain effective thanks to significantly improving their IQ.

Yeah, at the end i guess it largely comes down to how much of their game is dependant on those physical attributes.

Maybe it’s because Alzner never had that high of hockey IQ, but his physical gifts masked it really well, but as his physical attributes deteriorated it became more obvious, while Ekholm has always been more dependant on his IQ as he was never as mobile or as physical as Alzner.

Imo, that’s bit more likely than Alzner simply losing his IQ due to age.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Tangential, but I wonder if teams ever start doing more load management with aging players. Okposo is the one I’ve noticed- at the start of the season or after a break he looks great. Give it 5 games and he’s too slow again.

Florida, not being dummies, maybe noticed this and played him that last game- not for any feel good sorta shit, but because they knew he could scrape it together for one game (and played great).

Anyways, I think a lot can go off, especially with injuries, but the one I’ve noticed is just overall agility/explosiveness. I’m in the gym consistently for the first time in my life at 35, so I’m in my best shape. I think I could sprint with 21 year old me, but he’d be faster off the block and wouldn’t have to worry about injury. Give us a 3 cone drill, he’s winning easily. I think pure strength can take awhile, baseball hitters tend to peak later, but that quick twitch shit- I can’t imagine hitting the ice, I was slow to begin with and now there’s like a 1/4 second lag on some movements.

 

[Caps8112]

didnt read whole thread but number 1 to me is "hands". in your 30s you still play well and you might feel a little slower and a little more tired but when you get to 39-45 your hands start to go or the muscle memory is not what it was. My experience so far, anyway. Things that were routine in how you handle the puck just become a little more difficult, which affects every other aspect of the game.

 

[CuuuJooo]

As one of the women on the team I coach (and once played for) put it: "My brain knows exactly what to do out there. My body just can't do it anymore."

This was coming from someone who once played D1 hockey and is now, in her mid-30s, playing basically one level above rec hockey.

 

[Number8]

In my opinion, this sort of thing is a bell curve. For the aggregate of enjoyment, achievement, general health, happiness, and whatever we want to define as success in every day life it's roughly the shape of an upside down U. We can debate exactly where the apex typically is, but it's not mid twenties.

For professional sports it is mid to late twenties. That's because as a rule everything physical begins to drop off after that point for the vast majority of players.

 

[Washed Up 29YearOld]

Imo it’s more about the fact that as their physical ability deteriorates, they can’t execute the ”high IQ” plays they could before. As in that the decision is correct in theory, but their body doesn’t allow them to execute it.

Very good post and very true. You can have the IQ but you won't show it if you cannot implement plays physically.

As one of the women on the team I coach (and once played for) put it: "My brain knows exactly what to do out there. My body just can't do it anymore."

This was coming from someone who once played D1 hockey and is now, in her mid-30s, playing basically one level above rec hockey.

exactly

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Unfortunately, players get old. We have all seen it. Malkin, Crosby, and Ovechkin are not as good as they once were. Aside from speed, what is it that make players lose the "it"-factor. Why are they no longer the most dangerous guy on the ice?

I suspect one answer could be reflexes, but I am unsure just how big of a factor that is. What things do you look at when you watch old highlights and think, "Wow! He could no longer do that."

creativity and endurance.

 

[blankall]

Pain.

The more things hurt, the less motivated one is to push the limits.

Yup. Don't forget this is a full contact sport. Your bones literally get harder and more brittle as you get older. Getting slammed into the boards at 25 is no the same as at 35.

But basically, almost everything gets worse. Explosiveness, reflexes, speed, recovery, etc....

You can, however, build on strength into your 30s as well as stamina. Not explosive strength, but lifting ability. For non PED enhanced athletes, it takes many years of training to reach peak strength or endurance. NHLers often try to overcome the effects of aging by increasing their physical fitness. That's why you often see vets winning the in-team fitness competitions. You also often see rowers win olympic medals well into their 30s and even 40s.

Even in PED assisted competitions, you often see powerlifters and strongmen beat records well into their 30s. It's essentially a push and pull between having the time to build the strength and avoiding the increased risk of injury that comes with getting older.

 

[Tawnos]

I don't believe this happens as early as in the early-to-mid-30s to an extent you're describing (like Zibanejad has early-onset dementia lol). I know there's some data about cognitive decline starting at around 30 years old is some persons, but there're also studies stating that overall mental ability peaks at around 30-40 years old. We also need to factor in that on-ice decision making is the specific skill players have been training for decades, which is likely to offset the start of physical brain deterioration (if not outright overcome it).

Alznermay not be a great example of that btw. He was a defensive defenseman who played a very simple game, and he declined sharply after his groin injuries (on top of the multiple injuries due to 1000+blocked shots in the NHL alone). A player can have amazing cognitive abilities, but they're of little use if his already limited physical skillset decreases to a level insufficient for the NHL.

On average, you're probably right that it doesn't happen to players that early, but averages have little to do with individuals. And rates and timing of deterioration from aging is 100% an individual thing and almost all of it is a combination of genetics and wear & tear. The sliver that's left is conditioning. Zibanejad is just consistently a step behind in his decision-making when the puck is on his stick.

 

[bleedgreen]

Flexibility and the ability to process quickly. Way more than motivation, strength or pure speed with skating. Injuries and age take the flexibility away and when your brain doesn’t work quite as quick the messages take more time to get to your legs/hands. You see the play slower and react to it slower. Concussions of course play a role but it’s more than that.

 

[karltonian]

I'm not so sure speed goes as much as it did in the past. Maybe training and general health has something to do with that, but for example Marleau was still blazing fast at the end but his hands and play driving went away completely. Granted, he had a historically long career, but I notice that anticipation and reaction slow down as players age, I'm guessing some of that is natural but I suspect some of it comes from the accumulation of head trauma in hockey.

Over the course of a player's career, they gain muscle memory and train for specific ways of succeeding, and sometimes even have natural skill at those ways. Over time the game evolves to counter success, and that can leave a player with less relative skill at the things that are successful in the "new" league. This could look like the aforementioned hands going away or being unable to drive play anymore.

 

[Kingfan1967]

Virility

Jaromir Jagr disagrees with this statement.

 

[Kevinsane]

Patience with the same stupid questions from the same stupid reporters.

 

[logan5]

The Eye of the Tiger. Once that goes, it drags everything else down with it.

 

[DudeWhereIsMakar]

I noticed that some feel like as much as they love the game, their chemistry in the room. Teams are getting younger and when you're one of the few 30+ year olds in the room it feels out of place like you're not graduated from school yet.

Someone told me it's the same feeling as getting your PhD.

But I think that was Wheeler's issue with Winnipeg. But some players after the game (money on the board) you see some players at a table together laughing or you have the vet that chills there checking their phone.

 

[hirawl]

Explosiveness and hands. Slowly but surely and that has an impact on everything really.

 

[SheldonJPlankton]

Yup. Don't forget this is a full contact sport. Your bones literally get harder and more brittle as you get older. Getting slammed into the boards at 25 is no the same as at 35.

But basically, almost everything gets worse. Explosiveness, reflexes, speed, recovery, etc....

You can, however, build on strength into your 30s as well as stamina. Not explosive strength, but lifting ability. For non PED enhanced athletes, it takes many years of training to reach peak strength or endurance. NHLers often try to overcome the effects of aging by increasing their physical fitness. That's why you often see vets winning the in-team fitness competitions. You also often see rowers win olympic medals well into their 30s and even 40s.

Even in PED assisted competitions, you often see powerlifters and strongmen beat records well into their 30s. It's essentially a push and pull between having the time to build the strength and avoiding the increased risk of injury that comes with getting older.

Yeah. I can see that. Especially in a "one and done" type of event.

When I was 55 my 14YO nephew chirped at his baseball game that he was faster than me in a sprint. We ran from 300ft from the right field foul pole to home plate and I beat him there by a good 6ft.

Now, I was spent for hours afterwards and it took me days to fully recover, but for that 12.5 seconds or so, I absolutely could get into the zone.

 

[Man Purse]

inflammation...

older players need to focus on nutrient rich whole food protein with lower carb/sugar intake (and be strict about it)

 

[Mrb1p]

As an "aging" athlete myself, I can say it's clearly recovery and injuries piling up.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

Desire - Many practice hockey 4-5 times a week from the time they're 7 years old and usually play one game a week. They can't take a break in the summer because there's more clinics and North American tournaments. Many have to give up playing on other sports teams (Baseball, Soccer, Basketball) that they always loved as children. Non-hockey friends go out golfing and they have to skip it because of a practice or hockey travel. Fishing with buddies, can't go. Yeah I get all of the commitment to hockey, but when you start hitting 15-16-17 and the vision of the NHL or Division One NCAA is slowly fading, I can see how the desire fades. And many times Dad's dream can be pushing his son to keep maintaining that desire.

 

[LokiDog]

Honestly, aside from initial quickness, I don’t necessarily feel it’s any particular skill that goes. It’s resiliency and recovery. It’s being able to get up after getting crunched in the corner and move with speed and agility as if nothing happened. It’s getting crunched 40 games in a row and having 42 + playoffs left on the schedule and being in your mid-30s. I don’t think it’s necessarily the hands or vision or shot or accuracy or any of that. I think it the effects of the grind on the body. 25 year olds bounce back from everything. A 25 year old gets plastered, pops back up, circles the slot and pounces on a rebound without a problem. 35 year olds hurt. A 35 year old gets plastered, gets up slowly feeling tenderness in their hips, hobbles to the slot and misses the opportunity. They may be fine 5 minutes later, but that lack of invincible elasticity robs them of those opportunities.

 

[biturbo19]

It's not even just the obvious physical stuff like speed, explosive power, recovery, etc. Younger people also just have far more neuroplasticity as well. They learn things more quickly. New systems, adjustments, little details of the game...young players can pick things up and adapt to changes more quickly. Balanced somewhat against the value of "experience" but it's still just one more area where old players are at a bit of a disadvantage.

 

[Ford Prefect]

sperm count