As of TODAY, where is McDavid on the all time list in your opinion?

[vancityluongo]

today? somewhere between 12 and 18. a cup gets him to the high end of the range, two or more to get out of that range, all else considered the same as today.

expect he'll firmly be in the lower end of the top-10 when it's all done, cup(s) or not.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Math guy here questioning it. You really have to stretch the value of Hart's to even remotely make an argument for McDavid being equal to Jagr currently. "At LEAST", no, not even close.

1921 points > 1003 points
2 Cups > 0 Cups
5 Art Ross = 5 Art Ross
1 Hart < 3 Hart
3 Lindsay/Pearson < 4 Lindsay/Pearson
0 Conn Smythe < 1 Conn Smythe

You're very obviously leaning on the "Cups" argument, but Jagr won his Cups in his literal first two seasons backstopped by an amazing roster (which he obviously contributed to). When he was in his prime, i.e. when he was Jagr, he didn't even come close. And he certainly never had a couple of playoff runs like McDavid has had.

 

[benfranklin]

Weird take. I'm a bigger jagr than mcdavid fan. But in significantly less time McDavid has won more individual accolades. All Jagr really has going for him here is length of tenure and the team award (SC).

I'd say it's much closer than you seem to think.

The whole premise is TODAY. So if he loses his leg today and never plays again, where does he stand?

Ahead of Jagr apparently...

 

[benfranklin]

You're very obviously leaning on the "Cups" argument, but Jagr won his Cups in his literal first two seasons backstopped by an amazing roster (which he obviously contributed to). When he was in his prime, i.e. when he was Jagr, he didn't even come close. And he certainly never had a couple of playoff runs like McDavid has had.

Want to try again? Outside of last year, Jagr easily has the better playoff success without winning Cups, albeit its not by much, but it is there. And captain obvious, but lets pretend Draisaitl is gone 4 of the 7 years; where would the Oilers finish, let alone even qualify? That is what Jagr had with no Lemieux. It is rewriting history, but the 90s Penguins easily couldve been a dynasty team if Lemieux was healthy. Obviously McDavid is Lemieux and Jagr is Draisaitl in terms of production, but you get what Im saying.


94-95 - lost in 2nd round (No Lemieux)
95-96 - lost in Conference Finals
96-97 - lost in 1st round
97-98 - lost in 1st round (No Lemieux)
98-99 - lost in 2nd round (No Lemieux)
99-00 - lost in 2nd round (No Lemieux)
00-01 - lost in Conference Finals

16-17- lost in 2nd round
17-18 - missed
18-19 - missed
19-20 - missed
20-21 - lost in 1st round
21-22- lost in Conference Finals
22-23- lost in 2nd round
23-24 - lost in Finals

Lastly, yes Cups are a huge asterisk on every players legacy, whether they win it their rookie year, Conn Smythe it, or are a third line old man role player. Its important.

 

[Neil Racki]

Today right now, like never played ever again?

Top 50

Stays healthy yada yada yada and hes top 5 easy.

edit - anyone putting him top 5 right now ... Im guessing there is conscious and unconscious credit being given for what he will/would/could do in the future that is coloring your "right now" opinion .. imo

 

[Grifter3511]

The whole premise is TODAY. So if he loses his leg today and never plays again, where does he stand?

Ahead of Jagr apparently...

You said it. Not me. But you're correct in that it's as of today. And as of today McDavid has won more individual hardware than Jagr in a far shorter amount of time.

I'd rather win a SC than a CS. But if we're talking which implies a player is better, winning 2 cups or being on the losing end and winning the CS? Well, even plugs and goons win the SC. Not many people win the CS, and even fewer in a losing cause.

 

[benfranklin]

You said it. Not me. But you're correct in that it's as of today. And as of today McDavid has won more individual hardware than Jagr in a far shorter amount of time.

I'd rather win a SC than a CS. But if we're talking which implies a player is better, winning 2 cups or being on the losing end and winning the CS? Well, even plugs and goons win the SC. Not many people win the CS, and even fewer in a losing cause.

Pat Maroon is the perfect example there. Right place at the right time in wins and losses, but obviously I agree, you have to contribute.

McDavid has 2 more Harts and 1 more Lindsay/Pearson in the same time frame and similar age (Jagr 28 in 2001. McDavid 27 in 2024). I hardly consider that "far more" given the years we are comparing are 93-94 to 00-01 (8 years) and 16-17 to 23-24 (8 years). Since we're conveniently removing Jagr's first two seasons (even though he put up 13 points in 24 games as a rookie and then 24 points in 21 games to help the Pens win some scrub trophy back to back), but i'll play the game with the handicap.

Assuming McDavid quit hockey today because that is the premise of the thread and not where we think he will finish his career, compared to Jagr:

2 less Cups
2 more Harts
1 more Pearson/Lindsay
1 less Olympic gold, 1 less Olympic bronze
1 more WJC gold
918 less points
424 less goals
494 less assists

Assuming you take out the names and simply look above, its not even close and its insulting to the greats that played this game. I wholeheartedly agree that McDavid will get more Hart's, Art Ross's, and Lindsay's. Maybe even a Cup if he leaves Edmonton, and he will finish his career meeting or beating Jagr everywhere, but as of TODAY, he does not have it yet.

 

[tanti9]

I think he has to be around 5? Mcdavid is a phenomenal talent but to some degree you have to take the thought in that he has not won the Cup. I think these players are for sure ahead of him. Can there be cases for other players as well, definitely there can be. Mcdavid is a joy to watch and has burned my Canucks many times, but I admire his skill. I even mentioned that his response in the playoffs last year to the cross checks he was receiving ("it is playoff hockey"), gained more respect from me as i always thought him to be a whiner. Hope he gets his Stanley Cup, but not before the Canucks lol.

Gretzky
Orr
Howe
Lemieux
Mcdavid, Hasek, Yzerman, Messieer, Bourgue, Crosby, Ovechkin, etc

 

[thaman8765678]

Just outside the top 100.

He is one of the greatest for offense, but there is more to hockey than scoring goals. I take the overall skill set including defense and leadership intp account, which he is lacking.

 

[Romang67]

Just outside the top 100.

He is one of the greatest for offense, but there is more to hockey than scoring goals. I take the overall skill set including defense and leadership intp account, which he is lacking.

I assume your method of ranking is consistent for someone like Lemieux?

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Obviously McDavid is Lemieux and Jagr is Draisaitl in terms of production, but you get what Im saying.

How do you type this sentence and then continue on with any of the rest of your argument