As of 2023, International hockey is dead

[WarriorofTime]

If international hockey is meaningless because there are 60 countries who won't win any championships anytime soon, then global football is even more meaningless because there are about 180 countries who won't win any championship anytime soon.

International football is incredibly competitive. There is no "Canada" equivalent, despite having countries with bigger populations that put their heart and soul and collective sporting will into Soccer as much as Canadians do with hockey... because there are just so many other countries that do the same. The last 6 World Cups have produced 6 different champions and numerous other countries have finished in the Top 4 as well. You'd have to go all the way back to 1958 and 1962 to find a team that repeated the World Cup title (Brazil).

There is also not one single dominant league that basically controls the product of the sport the way that the NHL does with hockey. So the leagues don't really have much of a choice but to all willingly suspend their play for international windows, and you'll never see issues in terms of players not being released to play in World Cups, as well as numerous other major competitions (things like the Euro and Copa America are HUGE, giving nations a major event to compete towards every two years.. as well as smaller stuff like Nations League and Int'l Friendlies).

To compare the state of the two international games right now is laughable. Even a sport like Basketball has a much healthier international game in the moment.

 

[ViD]

To compare the state of the two international games right now is laughable. Even a sport like Basketball has a much healthier international game in the moment.

I agree with everything you said except this.

The US dream team still easily beats everyone in basketball

 

[WarriorofTime]

I agree with everything you said except this.

The US dream team still easily beats everyone in basketball

Yes, it's tough to beat the USA just due to their love of basketball and the massive population and overall sporting culture. But FIBA has both an Olympics and a World Cup to draw players in from along with well contested Confederation Championships (like Euro). NBA players are generally excited to participate (USA sometimes get low acceptance rates but has so many players that they can still send a team of All Stars regardless). There are also thriving youth competitions at the U16, U17, U18 and U19 level (currently the U16 Americas Championship is being played, and the U19 World Cup will be played June 24 - July 2 of this year). Compared to Hockey running gimmick teams seven years ago as the last sort of anything outside of World Championships that NHL players don't care about, I'd say it's doing much better at the moment.

 

[member 305909]

In soccer Saudi-Arabia beat Argentina at the last world cup. That is equivalent of China beating Canada at hockey except that never happens and Argentina still won the world cup.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

 

[MXD]

Only a blind or ignorant person would reject those points, Russia is one of the most important countries in hockey world.

That's not even thinly-veiled crying.

 

[JianYang]

There is a lack of "best on best" international tournament.

Having the world cup go back to its traditional format will help bring international hockey back to life, but even for that one, you got to have the final somewhere other than Canada once in a while to truly call it a "world cup"

 

[ViD]

There is a lack of "best on best" international tournament.

Having the world cup go back to its traditional format will help bring international hockey back to life, but even for that one, you got to have the final somewhere other than Canada once in a while to truly call it a "world cup"

Why would it be anywhere but in Canada or the US? It’s an NHL tournament

 

[JianYang]

Why would it be anywhere but in Canada or the US? It’s an NHL tournament

The final hasn't been in the US either.

The world cup has had games in Europe in the past, by the way. But not the final, and I don't even think they've had the semi final either.

 

[JianYang]

I agree with everything you said except this.

The US dream team still easily beats everyone in basketball

The world is catching up. It's gotten to the point now that if you put the best starting lineup of internationals against America, it can conceivably look better than the USA.

A statement like that would have been laughable 20 years ago, and the gap is only going to tighten further as we move forward.

 

[WarriorofTime]

A statement like that would have been laughable 20 years ago, and the gap is only going to tighten further as we move forward.

Considering 21 years ago the USA got embarassed at the World Championships IN the United States and 19 years ago, the USA lost 3 times and took Bronze at the Olympics, your timing may be a bit off by about a decade.

 

[JianYang]

Considering 21 years ago the USA got embarassed at the World Championships IN the United States and 19 years ago, the USA lost 3 times and took Bronze at the Olympics, your timing may be a bit off by about a decade.

Maybe so. Name your world starting 5 from that timeline and compare to the American starting 5 at that time (best on best). Maybe im forgetting some guys.

The overlying message still applies.

 

[Acallabeth]

There's a discussion to be had here, but I feel like you're overreacting to one tournament, which still showed great hockey, great upsets and a story for the ages (Latvia bronze).

Idk about ages, 5 years from now people will look at the medalists and the rosters and say 'that tournament was so weak Latvia medaled'.

 

[Albatros]

Idk about ages, 5 years from now people will look at the medalists and the rosters and say 'that tournament was so weak Latvia medaled'.

When Finland won in 1995 it was a very weak tournament if you simply look at the rosters, but it still remains the most celebrated moment of their hockey history just the same.

 

[Acallabeth]

When Finland won in 1995 it was a very weak tournament if you simply look at the rosters, but it still remains the most celebrated moment of their hockey history just the same.

Finland was a regular medalist in Olympics and Worlds by 1995 and has won many tournaments since. 1995 was simply their 1st claim for being a truly elite hockey country. Unless Latvia suddenly starts winning left and right, their bronze remains a fluke medal in a weak tournament, highlighting the poor state of international hockey.

 

[Lartsaman]

Idk about ages, 5 years from now people will look at the medalists and the rosters and say 'that tournament was so weak Latvia medaled'.

I doubt that anybody even gives a look at the roster. They just look and see "Great! Latvia medalled." Nobody remembers the roster of the weak tournaments, Canada has won n the last decades.

 

[Urbanskog]

Yet another post to complain about the Russia ban by the same user. Yawn.

 

[Lambo]

International football is incredibly competitive. There is no "Canada" equivalent, despite having countries with bigger populations that put their heart and soul and collective sporting will into Soccer as much as Canadians do with hockey... because there are just so many other countries that do the same. The last 6 World Cups have produced 6 different champions and numerous other countries have finished in the Top 4 as well. You'd have to go all the way back to 1958 and 1962 to find a team that repeated the World Cup title (Brazil).

There is also not one single dominant league that basically controls the product of the sport the way that the NHL does with hockey. So the leagues don't really have much of a choice but to all willingly suspend their play for international windows, and you'll never see issues in terms of players not being released to play in World Cups, as well as numerous other major competitions (things like the Euro and Copa America are HUGE, giving nations a major event to compete towards every two years.. as well as smaller stuff like Nations League and Int'l Friendlies).

To compare the state of the two international games right now is laughable. Even a sport like Basketball has a much healthier international game in the moment.

Before we praise football too much to the skies, I would also like to point out the downsides of this sport. Of course football is the number one sport in the world and it also has a certain balance. But even in this sport, only the big nations win world titles. Brazil(5x), Germany(4x), Italy(4x), Argentina(3x), France(2x), Uruguay(2x), Spain(1x), England(1x). So there are 8 teams that became world champions and 6 teams that have fought for the title since 1970. There have also been 6 different world champions in ice hockey since 1970. But clearly in the best of best, Canada has a unique selling proposition. In addition, club football suffers from a certain one-sidedness in the respective countries. The champions in Germany, France, England, Spain (2 teams) are predictable. That has changed in Italy, after 9 years of Juve dominance. Only very few teams can win the CL. The rich clubs are getting richer and the poor are being left behind. There are clubs, especially in England, that are sponsored by entire countries. Saudi Arabia, Hangover and UAE. Football is also going in a very bad direction.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Before we praise football too much to the skies, I would also like to point out the downsides of this sport. Of course football is the number one sport in the world and it also has a certain balance. But even in this sport, only the big nations win world titles. Brazil(5x), Germany(4x), Italy(4x), Argentina(3x), France(2x), Uruguay(2x), Spain(1x), England(1x). So there are 8 teams that became world champions and 6 teams that have fought for the title since 1970. There have also been 6 different world champions in ice hockey since 1970. But clearly in the best of best, Canada has a unique selling proposition. In addition, club football suffers from a certain one-sidedness in the respective countries. The champions in Germany, France, England, Spain (2 teams) are predictable. That has changed in Italy, after 9 years of Juve dominance. Only very few teams can win the CL. The rich clubs are getting richer and the poor are being left behind. There are clubs, especially in England, that are sponsored by entire countries. Saudi Arabia, Hangover and UAE. Football is also going in a very bad direction.

The World Cup is only every four years so you’re not painting a fair picture necessarily

 

[Albatros]

Before we praise football too much to the skies, I would also like to point out the downsides of this sport. Of course football is the number one sport in the world and it also has a certain balance. But even in this sport, only the big nations win world titles. Brazil(5x), Germany(4x), Italy(4x), Argentina(3x), France(2x), Uruguay(2x), Spain(1x), England(1x). So there are 8 teams that became world champions and 6 teams that have fought for the title since 1970. There have also been 6 different world champions in ice hockey since 1970. But clearly in the best of best, Canada has a unique selling proposition. In addition, club football suffers from a certain one-sidedness in the respective countries. The champions in Germany, France, England, Spain (2 teams) are predictable. That has changed in Italy, after 9 years of Juve dominance. Only very few teams can win the CL. The rich clubs are getting richer and the poor are being left behind. There are clubs, especially in England, that are sponsored by entire countries. Saudi Arabia, Hangover and UAE. Football is also going in a very bad direction.

Napoli won in Italy, but also in Germany Dortmund was tied in points with FC Bayern and in France RC Lens lost only by one point to PSG. Despite having predictable champions these leagues had pretty interesting seasons. And in Germany external investors were now explicitly blocked.

 

[Lambo]

Napoli won in Italy, but also in Germany Dortmund was tied in points with FC Bayern and in France RC Lens lost only by one point to PSG. Despite having predictable champions these leagues had pretty interesting seasons. And in Germany external investors were now explicitly blocked.

What I wrote to Italy is in my commentary. And yet FC Bayern is champion for the 11th time in a row. In France it is foreseeable who will be the champion in Spain there are only 2 that are most likely to come into question. Look at the last decade.

 

[ViD]

Yet another post to complain about the Russia ban by the same user. Yawn.

The delusion here is pretty hilarious. What is there to complain about ? We already won gold and silver in the non NHL Olympics, so I don’t even care if we even participate in it. The last WHC showed it’s a boring affair and we’re not missing much there either.

Junior World Champs is the only tournament I really miss seeing Russians compete in.

 

[Lambo]

The World Cup is only every four years so you’re not painting a fair picture necessarily

That's right! But I just wanted to make it clear that there are top dogs in football too.

 

[WarriorofTime]

That's right! But I just wanted to make it clear that there are top dogs in football too.

Yeah of course, there's a definitely a pyramid, but the pyramid is way wider in terms of the numbers at every layer of it.

 

[swissdude]

the soccer comparaison is plane stupid. There's only a WC every 4 yours because there are also the continental championships like Euros every 4 years so there is a meaningful tournament every 2 years. With the qualifiers for these tournaments there's best on best international soccer for national teams all the time each year....