WingedWheel1987
Registered User
Considering that Holland knew Datsyuk was retiring before he gave Helm and Gator those atrocious contracts, he didn't change anything.
Why is it only those 3 we talk about?
Why not:
Legwand, Cole, Helm, Abdelkader, Samuelsson, Weiss, Cleary, Ericcson, Helm, Miller, Richards, Colaiacovo, Howard, Daley, or a couple others? I never liked the DeKeyser contract, but at least he's still young enough to plus it up. Doubt it happens, but at least there's a slim chance.
In that list are players acquired via trade, FA, or re-signing, and I wasn't a fan of the moves for any number of reasons. Hank and Kronwall would have been better served shaping the next generation through their mid to late 30s, so those contracts don't bother me much.
I mean, the Tigers were/are shopping Fulmer, even after moving Verlander and Upton... years after moving star players that were looking at huge contracts in FA. Maybe they sold too much, and I know that circumstances are different without the hard cap, but the Wings could have easily been sellers at the trade deadline for more than just the past year.
The Tigers were listening on Fulmer. They were not shopping him around. Had teams not been reticent to deal for their high dollar value guys, they never would have listened.
Legwand, Cole, Helm, Abdelkader, Samuelsson, Weiss, Cleary, Ericcson, Helm, Miller, Richards, Colaiacovo, Howard, Daley, or a couple others?
Let's break down this list.
Legwand - traded when we had a nasty nasty rash of center injuries. Gave up Jarnkrok (20-30 point C making 2M), Eaves (who was injured as hell and had no spot with Detroit, his bounceback year wasn't gonna happen here), and a 2nd. I couldn't tell you who was taken with that pick.
Cole - He was exactly what the Wings needed in that playoff run. Fast, strong skater in the mold of a faster Johan Franzen. If his neck doesn't explode before the playoffs, they likely beat Tampa in the first round and that's the year Tampa made it all the way to the Finals. Gave up Janmark (topped out at 30-ish points, currently horrific injury had him on sidelines) and Backman who is back in Sweden and will never play an NHL game.
Helm + Abby - good complaint. Those were not good contracts for the skill set those guys bring. Holland's issue was this was he felt he couldn't lose them. They do have unique skills, but they're not irreplaceable on a good team.
Samuelsson - Awful contract. This one, Cola, and Tootoo were panic moves. They had big Ryan Suter plans for 2012 and he played them for saps until all the worthwhile talent was gone.
Weiss - He fell apart completely due to injuries that were not an issue when he signed. Had he sucked because his wrist? Put it all on Holland. That was the red flag on Weiss, not his groin. Before they signed him, he was a legit 2C capable of 55-60 points.
Cleary - That scenario was a joke. I think the NHL's punishment of clear cap circumvention was to force/allow us to have Dan Cleary on our roster for three years. If he was worth anything offensively or defensively, we would have gotten a big penalty from this.
Ericsson - Signed when he was an decent top 4D to decent top 4D money. He's had several injuries after the fact. A hip impingement and a shattered finger? Those aren't ones that are a normal person's worry about a guy who plays like he did.
Miller - He's eminently replaceable, but they never paid him more than what a replaceable 4th line winger should be paid. Why the hell is he on this list? He's a fine PK specialist who I think topped out at 1M a year.
Richards - It was an okay idea, but he never meshed with the Wings style of play. He took 3M in cap space for one year and then was gone.
Cola - as I mentioned in Sammy's, he was a panic signing. If you want to roast Holland for anything... the 2012 FA period was probably his worst offseason as a GM because he had Ryan Suter money but after him and Parise took the Wings offer as leverage to Minnesota, nothing was left. They then blew the money on garbage.
Howard - I will never understand how this contract came to be viewed so poorly. He was an above average NHL starter who got average starter money. At time of contract, three of four years were .920+ sv%. They had Mrazek in the wings as a big time prospect, sure, but they thought Thomas McCollum was a dynamite goalie prospect once upon a time too. I will never fault them for wanting cost certainty in net. Mrazek has kinda been a fly in the ointment. He's been so fantastic that they needed to pay up for him and so bad that they can't fully trust him to be the goalie of the future. Mrazek in the previous two seasons was the guy who embodied the "if this guy breaks out, we will find a way to pay him", but he was trash in 16-17.
Daley - He's a solid top 4D option that they're paying 3M to. If they trade Green for futures like everyone wants, they'll have Danny DeKeyser and nobody else. His contract didn't prevent them from making any moves. They're not going to lose AA because of it like you'll want to say.
The bigger problem is that there have been possibilities to drastically change the future of the team (Myers, Bouwmeester for a couple, maybe Fowler if they went harder at it in the 2016 Draft.) and Holland puckered when it came time to make the move. He sat on what he had as it slowly deteriorated.
His FA moves haven't been good, but at least half of them failed for reasons beyond his control.
The Tigers were listening on Fulmer. They were not shopping him around. Had teams not been reticent to deal for their high dollar value guys, they never would have listened.
Legwand, Cole, Helm, Abdelkader, Samuelsson, Weiss, Cleary, Ericcson, Helm, Miller, Richards, Colaiacovo, Howard, Daley, or a couple others?
Let's break down this list.
Look at the average age of that group.... then tell me the issues that arose were out of his control.
What do you expect of a grouping of mainly UFA contracts and a couple rentals? I mean it's at terrible list and a true indictment of Holland's failure as a GM recently, but of course the average age is high
I would expect them to be up there in age. And I would expect a GM would not be absolved of injury issues that happen to a group of players that are up there in age, as that is an inherent risk in that scenario.
The Tigers were listening on Fulmer. They were not shopping him around. Had teams not been reticent to deal for their high dollar value guys, they never would have listened.
Legwand, Cole, Helm, Abdelkader, Samuelsson, Weiss, Cleary, Ericcson, Helm, Miller, Richards, Colaiacovo, Howard, Daley, or a couple others?
Let's break down this list.
His FA moves haven't been good, but at least half of them failed for reasons beyond his control.
-Howard
Had a career average .917 SV% prior to that contract with Lidstrom, Rafalski, Stuart, and Kronwall defending him, Pav and Hank controlling the puck up front (all in their primes minus Lidstrom). He's had a .913 SV% avarage since, on a team that was trending negatively with a quickness due to age and injury. Why not try to move him as the core is all but done? Maybe try to build a new core as you milk Hank and Pav for a couple more years? His body of work didn't merit that contract and still doesn't. The micro picture was all Holland cared about when it should be the macro, especially when his team was trending in the wrong direction. That's just bad business sense by KH... and it's why the Wings are where they are now.
http://www.nhl.com/stats/player?agg...2013&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,160&sort=savePctg
Jimmy Howard had pretty nice stats compared to other goalies of that time.
He went 2 seasons without Rafalski and 1 season without Lidström. Stuart was also off from Detroit on that last season.
Howard is the best Red Wings regular season goaltender since the cap was implemented in 2005 and at NHL TOP6 on his first 4 seasons. And on that time he was signed to 10th highest goalie caphit. It felt like a small bargain on the signing moment.
His injuries started after the re-signing (april 2013), at 2013-14 season. There was nothing wrong on the time of signing. All the bad luck with injuries happened AFTERWARDS.
And yet he was still had damn good stats last year *while healthy.
Mostly just a fun video. But it does sum up a lot of the feelings people have towards Holland and the current state of the team.
Link fix. But I agree with the video. It's depressing, but it's hard to say he's wrong.
Depressing, this is hilarious! The fall of an empire. "**** we need another veteran because our prospects haven't gestated for 5 years!" All posts should be made with video and narration included.
Pretty harsh but I agree hard to say he's wrong. The central criticism is that Holland refused to step upstairs in 2009 and the franchise has made more bad decisions than good since.
Link fix. But I agree with the video. It's depressing, but it's hard to say he's wrong.
I don't just want Holland fired, I want him fired out of a cannon into the Sun.
That being said. This is bombastic, hyperbolic, and completely laughable. From the voice the narrator uses on down. Yeah Yzerman should have been kept for GM, yeah Holland has made a lot of missteps but this guy is literally captain hindsight.
I forgot to mention a prime Ericcson too (sarcasm font). Bit yea, dude must have done something to earn that $4.25 hit.
So... what you're saying is, Howard was a slight value on the ELC & RFA contracts, but a disaster on the following? Tell me how this fits into the AA thread, then see if you can eat the cake too.
Link fix. But I agree with the video. It's depressing, but it's hard to say he's wrong.