Player Discussion Artemi Panarin

[Lolaimbot]

Good point. Actualy this was the second time he had a really elite player on his line (Toews and Zibanejad), both times that did not worked well. I think because he tries to adjust to linemate's play instead of make the play himself.

Do you mean centers especially? Because there was one pretty damn elite player in his line in the Hawks and that was beautiful to watch

 

[BreadKick]

Do you mean centers especially? Because there was one pretty damn elite player in his line in the Hawks and that was beautiful to watch

OMG ))) I have to see my doctor! ))

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

I mean how long did the Panarin - Zib line last? I dont think we’ve seen enough to say that they don’t have chemistry. Of course the coaches won’t and shouldn’t mix things up with the way Panarin is rolling with Strome and Fast, but I feel like they can work together.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

The best part is he's our best defensive forward also

No way, that's Zibanejad easily.

 

[ohbaby]

=

Strome is dog **** defensively.

Is that why he is a leading ice getter on the PK?

Strome is very good defensively. Only Zibad has more time on the PK.

It could be, as others have mentioned, Panarin benefits from the defensive work of Fast and Strome. As good D always leads to offense. Plus Fast is our best forechecker. He hunts the puck down and retrieves it for Panarin. If Fast had any offensive ability, he would have as many points as Strome, almost a point per game player this year. Time and again, I see many blown chances by Fast. Whiffing on one-timers or tip ins. Or golden chances between the hash marks. But now and again he comes through with scoring. He can't miss all the chances he gets playing with the Breadman.

 

[ohbaby]

I've racked my brain and I really don't the Rangers have a had a player with his vision, creativity and intelligence since Gretzky.

I compare him to Jagr.

 

[ohbaby]

Right now, he is looking like a better version of Datsyuk.

I don't know. Datsyuk is a magician. Still playing BTW. Although it does looks like the Breadman is a more prolific scorer.

 

[McRanger]

=
Is that why he is a leading ice getter on the PK?

Strome is very good defensively. Only Zibad has more time on the PK.

It could be, as others have mentioned, Panarin benefits from the defensive work of Fast and Strome. As good D always leads to offense. Plus Fast is our best forechecker. He hunts the puck down and retrieves it for Panarin. If Fast had any offensive ability, he would have as many points as Strome, almost a point per game player this year. Time and again, I see many blown chances by Fast. Whiffing on one-timers or tip ins. Or golden chances between the hash marks. But now and again he comes through with scoring. He can't miss all the chances he gets playing with the Breadman.

Why was Staal the leading PKer last year despite being awful at PKing? I honestly have no idea why Strome is out there so much. I am sure Quinn has a reason (lack of bottom 6 depth, limiting younger players ice times, etc) but I am not sure it means much.

Even if you assume being a good PKer means you are good defensively at ES (its doesn't) Strome isn't even very good at PKing. Our PK has been a mess for 2 years.

I think you can try and make the argument that Strome isn't as bad defensively as his people say he is, but stating he is very good defensively is a bit out there.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I mean how long did the Panarin - Zib line last? I dont think we’ve seen enough to say that they don’t have chemistry. Of course the coaches won’t and shouldn’t mix things up with the way Panarin is rolling with Strome and Fast, but I feel like they can work together.

It's not about chemistry. It's about spreading your top talent to win games.

 

[ohbaby]

I think you can try and make the argument that Strome isn't as bad defensively as his people say he is, but stating he is very good defensively is a bit out there.

Ok, point taken. He might not be the best, but I was replying to someone who said he was dog**** defensively.

Also it's Strome and Fast's Even Strength defensive play that allows time and the opportunities in the offensive zone. How else would Panarin score if he was to spend all his time in the defensive zone?

Strome and Panarin clicked from the get go. And Quicky seems to complement both of them. Chemistry is a funny thing. Doesn't always work like it should. The fact that we have two 3rd liners jelling with one of the best in the league, is a huge bonus for us. Opposing teams now have to guard against two top lines. Zibad and Kreids are feeling it also. And all that takes the pressure off the kids line (3rd line). And you see how well they are coming along. It's almost like the addition of one talented player, has dramatically improved 3 lines. Where on earth would we be without him?

 

[ohbaby]

OK, McDavid and Draisaitl had 3 pts each last night. Panarin is now 7 pts behind with 3 games in hand. Never said it would be easy to catch him. LOL

 

[Bread4Life]

Good point. Actualy this was the second time he had a really elite player on his line (Toews and Zibanejad), both times that did not worked well. I think because he tries to adjust to linemate's play instead of make the play himself.

Edit: How could I forget Kane???

Also he was very good with Matt Duchene on his line in last playoff run for CBJ. Sometimes they created pure magic.

 

[ohbaby]

This is how you lay down Bread crumbs....

 

[Raspewtin]

Ok, point taken. He might not be the best, but I was replying to someone who said he was dog**** defensively.

But saying "he plays a lot on the PK" doesn't prove that lol

We have one of the worst PKs in hockey in the last three years and while "playing well" on the PK is a total crapshoot, Strome's not a net positive on it besides the fact that he's a body. He's there cause someone has to be and DQ won't try more creative and high potential options.

Also it's Strome and Fast's Even Strength defensive play that allows time and the opportunities in the offensive zone. How else would Panarin score if he was to spend all his time in the defensive zone?

This is honestly ridiculous, like even by the eye test Strome is by far the worst defensive player on that line. And any defense he brings (which is none, imo) its offset by the fact that he takes a lot of penalties and draws very few.

Panarin is a top percentile defender most of his career and Fast has an argument for being one of the best even strength defenders in all of hockey.

Strome and Panarin clicked from the get go.

Strome will not be the first or last player to "click" with one of the best players in hockey.

 

[SA16]

But saying "he plays a lot on the PK" doesn't prove that lol

We have one of the worst PKs in hockey in the last three years and while "playing well" on the PK is a total crapshoot, Strome's not a net positive on it besides the fact that he's a body. He's there cause someone has to be and DQ won't try more creative and high potential options.



This is honestly ridiculous, like even by the eye test Strome is by far the worst defensive player on that line. And any defense he brings (which is none, imo) its offset by the fact that he takes a lot of penalties and draws very few.

Panarin is a top percentile defender most of his career and Fast has an argument for being one of the best even strength defenders in all of hockey.



Strome will not be the first or last player to "click" with one of the best players in hockey.

Strome clicks with Panarin just like Simon, Rust, Guentzel, Kunitz, Dupuis, Hornqvist, Neal, Armstrong, Guerin, Sheary. and every single player to ever play with Crosby clicks with Crosby. Entirely replaceable parts. Paying these guys because they "click" with some of the best players in the league is just bad logic when you can get any other random fill in and he will "click" with them as well. Panarin's not Crosby but it's the same concept. Panarin, Cheap C, Cheap W and spending the money to upgrade other parts of the team will almost definitely yield a better result than Panarin, mid priced C, mid priced W and not having that money.

 

[Rongomania]

22 points from his career high in about 37 less games ...

&

Top four in NHL scoring with about 3 less GP than the rest in the top 5 ..

Easily with McDave in this league as THE top guy.


F***ing incredible.

 

[True Blue]

Easily with McDave in this league as THE top guy.

Panarin has been ridiculous and a pleasure to watch, BUT McDavid he's not.

 

[True Blue]

Strome clicks with Panarin just like Simon, Rust, Guentzel, Kunitz, Dupuis, Hornqvist, Neal, Armstrong, Guerin, Sheary. and every single player to ever play with Crosby clicks with Crosby. Entirely replaceable parts. Paying these guys because they "click" with some of the best players in the league is just bad logic when you can get any other random fill in and he will "click" with them as well.

Oh, how much do I detest the "Anyone can just do it" argument....let me count the ways.

If Gretzky could not make every player on his line look like a star, I hardly doubt that "anyone" can just step in and replicate what Strome has been doing.

It is also worth nothing again, though the "anyone can do it" crowd love to pooh-pooh this fact, is that Panarin is on pace to completely demolish his previous records. The number he is trending for are not even close when you look at who his previous line-mates were. But sure, it is impossible to believe that maybe there is something to two players who when paired together are pushing each other to brand new heights.

 

[Rongomania]

Panarin has been ridiculous and a pleasure to watch, BUT McDavid he's not.

This year, the production is extremely close to equal.

 

[SA16]

Oh, how much do I detest the "Anyone can just do it" argument....let me count the ways.

If Gretzky could not make every player on his line look like a star, I hardly doubt that "anyone" can just step in and replicate what Strome has been doing.

It is also worth nothing again, though the "anyone can do it" crowd love to pooh-pooh this fact, is that Panarin is on pace to completely demolish his previous records. The number he is trending for are not even close when you look at who his previous line-mates were. But sure, it is impossible to believe that maybe there is something to two players who when paired together are pushing each other to brand new heights.

It doesn't really matter if you like it. The numbers are the numbers. I posted a breakdown of this 2-3 weeks ago. Every player to have ever played 250+ mins or so with Crosby has produced at a large rate. Every time they say "Oh Kunitz was a perfect fit with Crosby" and such well the exact same thing has happened year after year whether it's him, Sheary, Simon or any other guy. These guys are all fill ins with a superstar and can be replaced easily by someone else with little drop off. Or you can waste money and spend 5M for them to keep doing their thing when you could get the same result for far cheaper if you weren't insanely risk adverse.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Panarin has been ridiculous and a pleasure to watch, BUT McDavid he's not.

You’re right , McDavid gets fat on the PP. Panarin does it the hard way. Also McDavid is a goober and Panarin is a total Chadimir.

 

[McRanger]

Oh, how much do I detest the "Anyone can just do it" argument....let me count the ways.

If Gretzky could not make every player on his line look like a star, I hardly doubt that "anyone" can just step in and replicate what Strome has been doing.

It is also worth nothing again, though the "anyone can do it" crowd love to pooh-pooh this fact, is that Panarin is on pace to completely demolish his previous records. The number he is trending for are not even close when you look at who his previous line-mates were. But sure, it is impossible to believe that maybe there is something to two players who when paired together are pushing each other to brand new heights.

"Anyone can do it" is a straw man argument. No one is talking about Panarin turning Haley into a star.

What is being discussed is how in the past stars like Crosby has been able to turn middling offensive talents into, at least statistically, 1st liners. The list of players is long.

And being that Panarin is on pace to put up more points than Crosby has in any season, ever, its not exactly something that can be dismissed out of hand. Do we really want to pay a player 5m-6m a year if he can be replaced by someone for half that price?

I see the "devil you know" pro to the Strome argument, but the con is not something you can just laugh off.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

"Anyone can do it" is a straw man argument. No one is talking about Panarin turning Haley into a star.

What is being discussed is how in the past stars like Crosby has been able to turn middling offensive talents into, at least statistically, 1st liners. The list of players is long.

And being that Panarin is on pace to put up more points than Crosby has in any season, ever, its not exactly something that can be dismissed out of hand. Do we really want to pay a player 5m-6m a year if he can be replaced by someone for half that price?

I see the "devil you know" pro to the Strome argument, but the con is not something you can just laugh off.

Your argument aside, just want to point out that Crosby has had a ton of stretches where he had 67 or more points in a 45 game stretch.

Had 78 in his firs 45 games in soph year.
Sidney Crosby 2006-07 Game Log | Gamelogs for Games 82 to 126

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Also, I think we can agree that guys like McKegg or Howden wouldn't come close to replacing the production Strome has gotten playing with Panarin. So who are some examples of these cheaper players that can easily replace him?

I'm looking at the list of Free Agent centers and I don't know. I am against overpaying Strome but I don't think he's as replaceable as others are implying he is. Center is still a premium position and you can't expect any scrub to get the same production with PAnarin.
2020 NHL Free Agents Tracker

 

[duhmetreE]

It doesn't really matter if you like it. The numbers are the numbers. I posted a breakdown of this 2-3 weeks ago. Every player to have ever played 250+ mins or so with Crosby has produced at a large rate. Every time they say "Oh Kunitz was a perfect fit with Crosby" and such well the exact same thing has happened year after year whether it's him, Sheary, Simon or any other guy. These guys are all fill ins with a superstar and can be replaced easily by someone else with little drop off. Or you can waste money and spend 5M for them to keep doing their thing when you could get the same result for far cheaper if you weren't insanely risk adverse.

Wait what? You've shown nothing but that Pittsburgh signed all those players you've mentioned. It's countering your actual argument. Kunitz was extended twice by Pittsburgh. Guentzel was extended. Rust was extended. Neal couldn't be afforded but was still extended. Hornqvist was extended. Rust was extended..

So, you're saying we should extend Strome?

Why are you using one of the greatest centers of all-time and his past as an example for Panarin? You do not change things unless you're forced to. There's no reason to get rid of Strome. He's a RFA, at worst he will be he next year. At best he's signed for 2-3 years. At that point it could be re-evaluated.