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Leetch3 said:
not disagreeing with your point i'm just not sure where the line is between making it 'fair' and lets rig the system so my team can finally get the top pick lol
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Got nothing to do with "my team", it's more to prevent teams like the oilers getting top 5 pick year after year and still sucking. At some point, management needs to accept that they can't just keep getting a bailout
 
Irishguy42 said:
NYR: 1
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Gotta give it to Gorts. That's a NICE sheet to look at. One guy on an NMC, who will probably be our #1C anyways.

If they sign Panarin this offseason that'll be another slot.

only downside with this is that the 2017 draftees that have burned a year off their contracts this year will require protection.

2017 draftees that have slid should be safe.

2018 that haven't signed an ELC and burned the year (none have for NYR) will not need protection. Kravstov is safe.

Shesty is safe since KHL is an outside league, he hasn't signed anything yet

Protection list so far is:

Forwards:
Zib
Andersson
Chytil
Howden (if he isn't traded by then)
Buchnevich

Defensemen:
Skjei
DeAngelo
Pionk

Goalies:
Georgiev

Ideally, 2020 would have been a better move for the Rangers. Andersson and Chytil would not have required protection, and Georgiev probably would have been selected, we could have offered up protection slots to teams for an exchange of draft picks.
 
@TheTakedown ELC years don’t matter. It’s accrued pro seasons. When that starts happening depends on age. Even if Chytil slid this year, he’d still need to be protected.
Kravtsov, slide or no slide next year, will be exempt.

The only way we could’ve had those 2017 guys exempt is if expansion was in 2020. The main reason Kravtsov will be exempt no matter what is that he’s in Russia this year.
 
TheTakedown said:
Shesty is safe since KHL is an outside league, he hasn't signed anything yet
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Shesty is 22 so if he signs an ELC this offseason I think it would be a 2-year ELC and he would be an RFA after 2020-2021 and therefore eligible (someone correct me if I'm wrong)

EDIT: I think this is incorrect based on Tawnos post above me. Shesty would only have 2 pro years accrued and would not be eligible.
 
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TheTakedown said:
Gotta give it to Gorts. That's a NICE sheet to look at. One guy on an NMC, who will probably be our #1C anyways.

If they sign Panarin this offseason that'll be another slot.

only downside with this is that the 2017 draftees that have burned a year off their contracts this year will require protection.

2017 draftees that have slid should be safe.

2018 that haven't signed an ELC and burned the year (none have for NYR) will not need protection. Kravstov is safe.

Shesty is safe since KHL is an outside league, he hasn't signed anything yet

Protection list so far is:

Forwards:
Zib
Andersson
Chytil
Howden (if he isn't traded by then)
Buchnevich

Defensemen:
Skjei
DeAngelo
Pionk

Goalies:
Georgiev

Ideally, 2020 would have been a better move for the Rangers. Andersson and Chytil would not have required protection, and Georgiev probably would have been selected, we could have offered up protection slots to teams for an exchange of draft picks.
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I like most of your forward slots, but it's way too early to have Buch or any of those Dmen on the list. Frankly if Buch & those Dmen are on the list, this team will still be rebuilding.
 
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Tawnos said:
@TheTakedown ELC years don’t matter. It’s accrued pro seasons. When that starts happening depends on age. Even if Chytil slid this year, he’d still need to be protected.
Kravtsov, slide or no slide next year, will be exempt.

The only way we could’ve had those 2017 guys exempt is if expansion was in 2020. The main reason Kravtsov will be exempt no matter what is that he’s in Russia this year.
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Slide years do not count towards Pro years. I know amazing Kreiderman always brings up Kerby Rychel, but he's an outlier.

Slide years are not considered pro seasons, therefore they don't count towards the expansion draft exposure rules
 
TheTakedown said:
Slide years do not count towards Pro years. I know amazing Kreiderman always brings up Kerby Rychel, but he's an outlier.

Slide years are not considered pro seasons, therefore they don't count towards the expansion draft exposure rules
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Contract years and professional years are two different things. I’m serious. Kreiderman and I have hashed this all out. Depending on a player’s age, as defined by the CBA, he can spend an entire year in the AHL, have his contract slide, and accrue a pro season. And I believe Andersson (or was it Chytil? One of the two) was going to be in that situation this year. They’re both in the NHL so it doesn’t matter, but it’s true.
 
Tawnos said:
Absolutely not.

To me, everyone thinks about this wrong anyway. The team with the worst record over the course of the year should be entitled to 1OA, regardless of whether or not management tanked, simply because their fans had to suffer through that crap. They deserve the most consolation the league can give them. Again, that's just to me.
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I dont even like the idea of loading up for a playoff run, I'd prefer if the deadline was earlier then we wouldn't have the big sell offs and teams that shouldnt be at the bottom wouldnt be because they might still think theres a chance at playoffs before the deadline.
 
Tawnos said:
Contract years and professional years are two different things. I’m serious. Kreiderman and I have hashed this all out. Depending on a player’s age, as defined by the CBA, he can spend an entire year in the AHL, have his contract slide, and accrue a pro season. And I believe Andersson (or was it Chytil? One of the two) was going to be in that situation this year. They’re both in the NHL so it doesn’t matter, but it’s true.
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Nobody ever explained how this was the case though... There's something missing. There were several other candidates who slid for 2 years and were exempt from selection.

Andersson burning his contract this year will have acquired 2 full years of pro experience on 7/1/2020. He wouldn't be eligible for selection anyways.
 
TheTakedown said:
Nobody ever explained how this was the case though... There's something missing. There were several other candidates who slid for 2 years and were exempt from selection.

Andersson burning his contract this year will have acquired 2 full years of pro experience on 7/1/2020. He wouldn't be eligible for selection anyways.
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I did explain how that was the case when we hashed this out originally. It had to be Andersson and his birthday being after September 15 but before December 31 is the reason. It's something like your ELC age and slide eligibility comes from your age based on one criteria and your number of pro seasons comes from your age based on another. Maybe it's that one is based on your "season age" and the other is based on your "calendar age." I don't have time right now to slice out the relevant portions of the CBA. I'll try to do it tonight.

I'm not even saying I think there's valid reasoning. It's just one of those things.
 
KreiderBomb said:
I dont even like the idea of loading up for a playoff run, I'd prefer if the deadline was earlier then we wouldn't have the big sell offs and teams that shouldnt be at the bottom wouldnt be because they might still think theres a chance at playoffs before the deadline.
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Fire sales are good for organizations that are looking to rebuild.
 
Tawnos said:
Fire sales are good for organizations that are looking to rebuild.
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Yes but we were discussing how to get the 1st rounders to the teams that need them and suppress the tank theory. With the trade deadline so close to playoffs teams that are outside looking in can now dump all their players and become the worst team to get a better pick. If the deadline were earlier less teams could bail on the year and only the really bad teams would be in tank mode. That was my point in an earlier deadline.
I also feel it's a bit of cap circumvention as a team like Toronto is likely going to add an expensive expiring defenseman at the deadline where they couldn't fit that player under the cap otherwise. We did it before so it's not like I'm picking on other teams but in never really liked that part of it.
 
KreiderBomb said:
Yes but we were discussing how to get the 1st rounders to the teams that need them and suppress the tank theory. With the trade deadline so close to playoffs teams that are outside looking in can now dump all their players and become the worst team to get a better pick. If the deadline were earlier less teams could bail on the year and only the really bad teams would be in tank mode. That was my point in an earlier deadline.
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That scenario would inevitably lead to a team that was planning a rebuild not selling off their UFAs if they had a good first half of the season, only to see their season slip away in the second half. And other teams buying when their success was just situational.

The season is 82 games long. You shouldn't be forced to make critical decisions about your team's future at the halfway mark.
 
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Tawnos said:
That scenario would inevitably lead to a team that was planning a rebuild not selling off their UFAs if they had a good first half of the season, only to see their season slip away in the second half. And other teams buying when their success was just situational.

The season is 82 games long. You shouldn't be forced to make critical decisions about your team's future at the halfway mark.
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That's exactly what I want. The bad teams would be at the bottom in the end.
 
KreiderBomb said:
No...sometimes teams that dump all their players are closer to the bottom than they would be if they didnt. The McDavid/Eichel draft was the worst example of this.
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The Oilers traded one guy at the deadline (Petry) and one guy much earlier in January (Perron). The Sabres, in February, made one major hockey trade (acquiring Kane) and one sell-off trade (Miller/Ott). The Coyotes traded Yandle, Vermette, and Michalek. The Leafs traded Winnik and Franson. The Hurricanes traded Sekera and Gleason.

The point is... I don't see anything that any of these teams were doing that would've been any different if they 10th worst. And I don't see any one of those trades as anything that might take a team from finishing 21-25 to 26-30, with the exception of the Sabres trading their starting goalie. He was a UFA they weren't re-signing anyway.

The level to which GMs really tank their team through deadline deals is vastly overstated. They might go into a season planning on being one of the worst teams in the league, but deadline deals that late in the season don't often have a fundamental impact on how low the team finishes. They were already there.
 
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TheTakedown said:
Nobody ever explained how this was the case though... There's something missing. There were several other candidates who slid for 2 years and were exempt from selection.

Andersson burning his contract this year will have acquired 2 full years of pro experience on 7/1/2020. He wouldn't be eligible for selection anyways.
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OK, so this gets pretty wonky. According to the CBA, a player is 20 if he turns 20 before December 31st of the year in which the season begins. So, even if he's 19 on September 16 (technical start of the season), he's considered 20 for the purposes of that season. The CBA also purposefully states that 18 and 19 year old players accrue a pro season when they play 10 NHL games, whereas players 20 and older accrue a pro season after playing 10 professional games. Professional games are defined as essentially anything played under a Standard Player Contract, so that applies to AHL games, ECHL games, and I'm pretty sure games in European leagues a player has been loaned too (since that still falls under the terms of the contract). It's that distinction between NHL and professional games that's at issue here. Andersson turned 20 in October, so he falls under the professional games standard.

Meanwhile, an 18-year-old is someone who is 18 on September 15th and a 19-year old is someone who is 19 on September 15th. The only thing that matters for slides is what age a player is when they signed the contract. Andersson signed his contract in July 2017 and didn't turn 19 until October. So that means he is eligible for two slides, regardless of his age. Chytil was *also* considered to be 18 since he would turn 18 on September 5th.

Basically, it isn't so much that the CBA applies two sets of standards to what counts as an accrued season and what counts as a slide so much as the CBA applying a different definition of what makes someone 18 or 19 vs what makes someone 20. Does any of that make sense?
 
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