Around the NHL XXXV - Pre Season Hype #CAMP

[Ray Kinsella]

Pacioretty traded to Vegas for Tatar, Suzuki, 2nd

Wonder if that means Vegas is out of the running for EK

Was thinking the same when I heard.

 

[L'Aveuglette]

So apparently Vegas didn't have any sort of agreement with Patches before trading for him. Discussions started after the trade.

Pretty gutsy of GMGM to trade those assets for one guaranteed year of Pacioretty. Hopefully they can manage an extension.

 

[The Lewler]

Ahh yes . McPhee starting to McPhee. The slow ruination of Vegas has begun.

 

[topshelf15]

Meh They really didnt give up much,A 2nd a small forward prospect and a cap dump...Patches could score 30 goals out there and be the replacement for Neal...I dont really see the big deal

 

[Daffy]

Meh They really didnt give up much,A 2nd a small forward prospect and a cap dump...Patches could score 30 goals out there and be the replacement for Neal...I dont really see the big deal

A very good F prospect, a guy who is a lock for 20+ goals, and a 2nd. It's a very solid return.

 

[BonkTastic]

It's a great return if you consider Pac a rental. It's a mediocre return otherwise.

If anything, it might help Karlsson's value if it helps set the precedent of ignoring a players pending UFA status in a trade if you can give the acquiring team a whole year to re-sign the player.

 

[topshelf15]

A very good F prospect, a guy who is a lock for 20+ goals, and a 2nd. It's a very solid return.

It looks more of the same as they likely would have gotten at the TDL...Patches is still a very good top line winger,and is capable of 30 goals ...LVK didnt give up that much to try and keep the momentum they built up from last seasons run ...They still have their best young stuff,and have replaced Neal with a faster goalscorer ,add in a better player in Stastny over Perron and the Knights have had a good offseason

 

[topshelf15]

It's a great return if you consider Pac a rental. It's a mediocre return otherwise.

If anything, it might help Karlsson's value if it helps set the precedent of ignoring a players pending UFA status in a trade if you can give the acquiring team a whole year to re-sign the player.

Yep,can see patches resigning there ,and this deal is a win for them

 

[Lenny the Lynx]

From TSN: "Montreal Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin said Monday in his french language scrum that the team's deal to send their captain to the Vegas Golden Knights was contingent on Pacioretty signing an extension with his new club"

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Yep,can see patches resigning there ,and this deal is a win for them

Patches has 19 points in 38 playoff games and most of those points came against Boston. No Boston out West means he's likely going to continue being the new Thornton: the dude is a massive playoff choker.

I'm a bit shocked Vegas paid so much to get him. To be fair, the guy is a scoring machine in the regular season so he is a big help in getting to the playoffs so he's not without his uses.

He's a better Michalek essentially.

 

[OmniSens]

Wow, great return for Montreal... A little jelly.

 

[Xspyrit]

Pacioretty, the captain traded just before the Habs golf tournament. Is it drama worthy?

Agreed. A heck of a lot more than we got for Spezza.

Context. Pacioretty is younger, cheaper, a better goal scorer and most importantly didn't have a non-movement clause reducing the trade options and allowing him to nix a deal.

Another very important point is that Patches is not half broken down like Spezza was, so we shouldn't see a steep declin for at least 5 years. It only took 2-3 years for Spezza. Thing is you can expect to have Patches on your 1st line for several more years as opposed to Spezza who was not good enough to be your 1st line center anymore (he was more like a Mike Ribeiro at this point)

That being said, the main difference in the packages is that Suzuki is a better prospect than Paul was, even though Paul was a rising Center prospect with a great physique (an asset that Suzuki doesn't have). Unfortunately, his rise didn't go far enough to have top-6 potential. Suzuki is a good prospect but I see him more of slightly better Chlapik caliber.

Tatar vs Chiasson : Chiasson was younger and cheaper when traded, coming off a 35 pts rookie season. He was considered a pretty good prospect before that, with top-6 potential. Tatar had 34 pts last year and 46 & 45 pts the 2 years before that (only missed 1 game in those 3 years), which is similar production to Boedker (who is better in other facets of the game than point production). Difference is that Tatar had top-6 minutes (vs Boedker who had 3rd line minutes the last 2 years in SJ) and is paid 5.3 M$ per season...

2nd = 2nd

Guptill vs nothing : Guptill was a throw in

It's much better than the return for Hoffman though (which would be more like Tatar and a 4th), which was more comparable to Pacio at this point in time, but there was also a context that affected Mike's value a lot, which would really suck IF his fiancee is not even guilty...

EDIT : I read many comments saying how great that package is, so in terms of Sens actual assets, the package would be close to Boedker + Chlapik + 2nd

* Before some people overreact, yes Chlapik has less value than Suzuki, but Tatar also has less value than Boedker due to overall game and salary.

 

[Boud]

From TSN: "Montreal Canadiens general manager Marc Bergevin said Monday in his french language scrum that the team's deal to send their captain to the Vegas Golden Knights was contingent on Pacioretty signing an extension with his new club"

I'm sure it is. No point for Vegas to do that otherwise. Suzuki is a very good prospect.

Think it's a good deal for both sides. For Vegas it's disappointing given the fact that they gave up so much for Tatar just last season but if you ignore what they gave up for Tatar ... trading Tatar, Suzuki and a pick for a guy that will very likely score 35 goals and still has 4-5 good years left is a no brainer IMO. Also Patches never had a center like Stastny/Karlsson to play with so it'll be interesting to see what he can do with competent linemates.

On the other hand Montreal was able to get a guy that will score 15-20 goals and 40-50 points for them, a real good prospect and a pick they could use in a trade if they want. The only thing that's a bit disappointing is that Suzuki might not play C in the NHL although the Habs do have Kotkaniemi and Poehling. I think it was kind of a no brainer for Montreal as well. They trade a guy that was never going to re-sign, avoided training camp distractions, got a decent haul.

 

[topshelf15]

Patches has 19 points in 38 playoff games and most of those points came against Boston. No Boston out West means he's likely going to continue being the new Thornton: the dude is a massive playoff choker.

I'm a bit shocked Vegas paid so much to get him. To be fair, the guy is a scoring machine in the regular season so he is a big help in getting to the playoffs so he's not without his uses.

He's a better Michalek essentially.

The deal is fine for both clubs,LV didnt give up much...Glass ,Brunnstrom and their 1st are still their property..They essentially replaced Neal with Patches ,and Stastny for Perron...And it cost them a 2nd a player they had no use for that was making 5 mil and a good but not their best forward prospect

 

[FolignoQuantumLeap]

The odds of the darkest timeline where Karlsson goes to Toronto increased today.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

Pacioretty's return actually isn't that far off from Spezza's if you look at it with how the pieces were viewed at the time.

Chiasson was a young NHLer taken high in the 2nd round, and we got a 2nd+Paul.

Tatar is the x factor. He probably has negative value at this point without retained salary, but he could easily bounce back and either be a side 2nd liner for MTL or get them something at the deadline in a few years.

Basically if this trade didn't happen and Vegas says to Montreal, so you want Tatar for free? Would they have taken that contract from Vegas? I'm not sure.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Pacioretty's return actually isn't that far off from Spezza's if you look at it with how the pieces were viewed at the time.

Chiasson was a young NHLer taken high in the 2nd round, and we got a 2nd+Paul.

Tatar is the x factor. He probably has negative value at this point without retained salary, but he could easily bounce back and either be a side 2nd liner for MTL or get them something at the deadline in a few years.

Basically if this trade didn't happen and Vegas says to Montreal, so you want Tatar for free? Would they have taken that contract from Vegas? I'm not sure.

meh id still prefer what the habs got. I mean Suzuki is a legit top line prospect and Tatar still put up 20 goals last season and is only 27.

While we were trying to get excited about Alex Guptil lmao

 

[Langdon Alger]

I know Suzuki could be a good top-6 guy, but I feel like the Habs needed to get a 1st round pick for Patches. Not the greatest return for their top forward.

Suzuki was a first round pick.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Claiming Suzuki has top line potential seems a bit premature since he's only played in Junior.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Claiming Suzuki has top line potential seems a bit premature since he's only played in Junior.

??? lol how does that make sense? Suzuki is a 13th overall pick who put up 100 points last year and 96 in his draft year. He absolutely has top line potential.

that's like saying Brady Tkachuk doesn't have top line potential because he has only played college and juniors.

 

[Engineer]

What day does our camp begin?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

??? lol how does that make sense? Suzuki is a 13th overall pick who put up 100 points last year and 96 in his draft year. He absolutely has top line potential.

I don't like pegging such lofty expectations based on Junior alone.

Very solid prospect no doubt. I'd wait until he goes pro and see how he does before saying he has top line potential.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Suzuki has the ceiling of a top line player (if his development goes perfectly), but it's more likely that he ends up a middle 6er.

There's bust potential there too. He's very skilled but he's also undersized, not that fast and doesn't bring a whole lot away from the puck.

Would have been 4-5 Vegas prospects I would have preferred over him in an EK trade.

 

[Engineer]

IIRC Suzuki is also a horrid skater, and in the modern NHL skating is extremely important.

 

[Clayonator]

It's hard to be optimistic about this upcoming season though. The prospect pool is good in terms of shear volume but there isn't really the quality that we'll need to become competitive again. Aside from Brown, Gustavsson and Batherson there isn't
really anyone to really get excited about.

This season is really really bleak though. It's unlikely any of the big prospects will likely be able to help the team in any meaningful way, Boucher is still here and the team is downgraded from last year. Then you consider the strength of our division. The top 3 teams are all in a legitimate conversation for top 5 in the NHL. Then consider our schedule against those teams and the rest of the league where we have the most back to backs with some brutal opponents.

Very tough to imagine this team finishing anywhere near a playoff spot. There's some light with the prospects and young players but until Boucher is gone and the star players are committed to, there's little reason to have faith or optimism. Its like having faith in the Catholic church in 2018. There's absolutely no rhyme or reason to it, you're just entrenched at this point.

Brown, Gustavsson, and Batherson. Are the only pieces of quality? You’re forgetting Tkachuk (set aside your prejudice), White, Chlapik, Formenton, Jaros, and Wolanin. Wolanin I am specifically excited about more than ever. He’s NHL ready and I truly believe top 4 ready. He will add a smooth puck moving element that wasn’t at all present outside of Karl and Chabot last year or Karl alone two seasons ago.