Around the NHL - Part XLV (Playoffs edition)

[duhmetreE]

we never get the Knoblauchs

 

[McRanger92]

we never get the Knoblauchs

Man we really missed out on hiring Stan Bowman too!

In all seriousness, I and others here were calling on them to hire Knoblauch over Laviolette as well. The ultimate outcome wouldve likely been Knob getting fired after this season in favor of Mika Sullivan either way. Timing is everything and context matters.

 

[LokiDog]

I’m indifferent but looking forward to watching because it WILL be good and entertaining hockey.

The way I feel about McDavid is the same way I feel about Ovie, Sid and every legend; regardless of whether I “root” for them or am a fan of them, I respect watching them build their legacy and witnessing history. McD is a historic player, watching him win a Cup would never be a bad thing as a neutral observer. I also really like Draisaitl. But I also love Tkachuk and Bennett and Barkov. I’m also almost sort of pulling for Skinner to keep it up and shed the label. Seems like a good kid. Honestly, it should be another good final.

 

[LokiDog]

Pretty obviously paired with Ceci who is less than well regarded. Not a lot of shame in getting cooked by McDrai.

How people can’t understand these types of things is wild. He IS a great defensive D. He played with a bottom pairing level partner and was still matched against the toughest matchups. Wow, he got lit up playing two peoples’ jobs against the best playoff performer of this generation. Guy literally set the all time assists record (?) last year and put up more playoff points in that run alone than Panarin has as a Ranger.

 

[LokiDog]

i thought he usually rolls with Heiskanen

Harley and Heiskanen is the new thing in Dallas. Deboer is an idiot. Heiskanen doesn’t need another puck mover on his line and Harley is overrated and a defensive liability. Tons of mistakes. Lindell with either Heiskanen or Harley makes sense. Heiskanen can carry a guy like Ceci because he moves the puck and doesn’t need someone else to outlet for him like Lindell does. Should have been Heiskanen/Ceci and Lindell/Harley. Deboer thinks that since Heiskanen “can” play the right side it’s better to “load” his top pairing, when in reality he just created two other pairings that can’t move the puck out of their own zone and redundancy on the top pairing with your only two puck moving D playing the same minutes.

 

[McRanger92]

Im sorry but if your response to the valid critique that state income tax plays an uneven role in NHL is some corny shit like this you arent a serious person. Weekes may as well have the league office's hand up his ass and moving his mouth like a puppet at this point. Biz and Brooksie are correct that its a clear advantage for Florida and other teams and a clear handicap for the Rangers and Maple Leafs (who basically keep the league afloat on their own btw). Childish naivete shielding the league from a legitimate conversation.

 

[Boris Zubov]

Has Paul Maurice always been this insufferable?

I’m still angry about the handshake interview. What a pompous asshole.

What did he say?

 

[Machinehead]

Absolutely not. f*** the Oilers, f*** McDavid and f*** Canada. Florida winning is a nothingburger, Oilers winning would ruin the NHL coverage and HFBoards for the next few years. Let's not do that.

I will never have enough braincells in my body to wrap my head around Rangers fans rooting for this version of the Panthers because "Canada" for some reason.

 

[Takeahnase]

I will never have enough braincells in my body to wrap my head around Rangers fans rooting for this version of the Panthers because "Canada" for some reason.

It’s like rooting for Mordor in LOTR.

 

[Machinehead]

Im sorry but if your response to the valid critique that state income tax plays an uneven role in NHL is some corny shit like this you arent a serious person. Weekes may as well have the league office's hand up his ass and moving his mouth like a puppet at this point. Biz and Brooksie are correct that its a clear advantage for Florida and other teams and a clear handicap for the Rangers and Maple Leafs (who basically keep the league afloat on their own btw). Childish naivete shielding the league from a legitimate conversation.

This was discussed on the main boards recently and somebody suggested "get rid of revenue sharing too!"

There would be like seven teams.

 

[Boris Zubov]

This was discussed on the main boards recently and somebody suggested "get rid of revenue sharing too!"

There would be like seven teams.

And we still wouldn't sniff a Cup.

 

[NickyFotiu]

Im sorry but if your response to the valid critique that state income tax plays an uneven role in NHL is some corny shit like this you arent a serious person. Weekes may as well have the league office's hand up his ass and moving his mouth like a puppet at this point. Biz and Brooksie are correct that its a clear advantage for Florida and other teams and a clear handicap for the Rangers and Maple Leafs (who basically keep the league afloat on their own btw). Childish naivete shielding the league from a legitimate conversation.

Its not nothing but its a little over rated when it comes to Florida and TX for a few reasons.

1. Players pay income tax based on where they play the games so their home states do not effect their tax liability for their road games.

2. There are so many other taxes to be accounted for. Some no or low income tax states have high property taxes, sales taxes, etc to make up for the revenue. I would look at a states total tax burden not just their income tax.

3. There are other states with no or little income tax such as Nevada, Washington, etc.

Now NY and California are ridiculously taxed states but that is not a NHL issue. That is a state issue imo. Other cities should not be penalized based on how NYC or LA choose to run their cities/states.

 

[LOFIN]

I will never have enough braincells in my body to wrap my head around Rangers fans rooting for this version of the Panthers because "Canada" for some reason.

I don't really care about what the teams look like. For me it's about the organizations/fanbases. If Florida wins, nobody cares. If the Oilers win, you will never hear the end of it.

 

[McRanger92]

Its not nothing but its a little over rated when it comes to Florida and TX for a few reasons.

1. Players pay income tax based on where they play the games so their home states do not effect their tax liability for their road games.

2. There are so many other taxes to be accounted for. Some no or low income tax states have high property taxes, sales taxes, etc to make up for the revenue. I would look at a states total tax burden not just their income tax.

3. There are other states with no or little income tax such as Nevada, Washington, etc.

Now NY and California are ridiculously taxed states but that is not a NHL issue. That is a state issue imo. Other cities should not be penalized based on how NYC or LA choose to run their cities/states.

It’s an NHL issue when there’s a hard cap based on overall revenues. For me the annoying thing is weekes having such a simplistic view to gaslight people who think it’s at least worth looking at. No one is taking anything away from Florida or Tampa or Vegas. The Rangers don’t struggle with roster building because there’s an income tax in NY, I’m aware of that. Just another example of mainstream media being the mouthpiece for the powers that be. It’s delusional to act like it’s not a factor.

 

[Machinehead]

I don't really care about what the teams look like. For me it's about the organizations/fanbases. If Florida wins, nobody cares. If the Oilers win, you will never hear the end of it.

I have never interacted with an Oilers fan without choosing to.

 

[LOFIN]

I have never interacted with an Oilers fan without choosing to.

Well, they are here at HFBoards if you venture outside of HFNYR.

And my position is obviously biased. I'm not based in New York. Most of the hockey media I consume is Canadian. It sucks when they do well, it's way more entertaining when they suffer.

Not that I really haven't given it that much consideration, but I would sure as hell like Florida winning more because they have actually done such a great job building that team, and becoming a top organization after being a laughing stock of the league for 20 years. While on the other side, I still think the Oilers are such a flawed team with poor goaltending, poor defence, and them just being carried by two absolute generational players best in the game today, just sucks. Not the way you are supposed to build a winner in this league.

 

[NickyFotiu]

It’s an NHL issue when there’s a hard cap based on overall revenues. For me the annoying thing is weekes having such a simplistic view to gaslight people who think it’s at least worth looking at. No one is taking anything away from Florida or Tampa or Vegas. The Rangers don’t struggle with roster building because there’s an income tax in NY, I’m aware of that. Just another example of mainstream media being the mouthpiece for the powers that be. It’s delusional to act like it’s not a factor.

I'm not sure what you would propose. Do you think the NHL should do something to all the NHL teams that have a lower income tax rate than NY (up to 10%) and California (up to 13%)? I think AZ is around 2%. Colorado is around 4%. So is Detroit (MI) and Carolina. Philly (Penn) is around 3%. I think NY/NJ and Cali are probably the outliers in the USA and they should consider lowering theirs imo.

 

[Cmox]

This no state income tax debate is a one of the biggest copes I've ever witnessed.

 

[Machinehead]

Well, they are here at HFBoards if you venture outside of HFNYR.

And my position is obviously biased. I'm not based in New York. Most of the hockey media I consume is Canadian. It sucks when they do well, it's way more entertaining when they suffer.

Not that I really haven't given it that much consideration, but I would sure as hell like Florida winning more because they have actually done such a great job building that team, and becoming a top organization after being a laughing stock of the league for 20 years. While on the other side, I still think the Oilers are such a flawed team with poor goaltending, poor defence, and them just being carried by two absolute generational players best in the game today, just sucks. Not the way you are supposed to build a winner in this league.

I don't care how you build your team, personally, because I'm of the opinion that you just win, and fairness is for second place.

However, I would argue that the Panthers building a system around committing so many penalties that the league just stops calling them is equally ripe for criticism.

 

[LOFIN]

I don't care how you build your team, personally, because I'm of the opinion that you just win, and fairness is for second place.

However, I would argue that the Panthers building a system around committing so many penalties that the league just stops calling them is equally ripe for criticism.

I much prefer the Oilers style of play to the Panthers, that we very much agree upon. Panthers are trying (not even trying, they've successfully done it) 80s style hockey. I resent that.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I don't care how you build your team, personally, because I'm of the opinion that you just win, and fairness is for second place.

However, I would argue that the Panthers building a system around committing so many penalties that the league just stops calling them is equally ripe for criticism.

They literally just followed Tampa's template. Our ECF series against the Bolts was proof positive of that.

 

[Machinehead]

This no state income tax debate is a one of the biggest copes I've ever witnessed.

Yes, because my whole thing is that while it certainly is a factor, the Rangers have other advantages that other teams don't have. Fox, Kane, and Miller are just recent examples of players forcing their way here. It's objectively an attractive destination even with the tax rate. You could make the argument it's still the most attractive destination in the league! (Also, if they ponied up Lafreniere and/or Kakko, Tkachuk would be here instead of in Florida not paying taxes).

Should the league legislate it? Maybe, but I don't think they can. Every city has different taxes. What actually would be the solution?

Beyond that specific issue, there's way more than taxes that makes a free agency/trade destination, and again, there's nothing the league can do to make places equal. You have teams in 32 different cities, and people would rather live in some cities than others for a whole host of reasons.

When you put every possible reason into a blender, New York is still probably at the very top of the list. We're not in any position to say the league structure is unfair to us.

I could see a team like Winnipeg saying "how are we ever supposed to keep or attract players?" but again, what is the league supposed to about it?

 

[Machinehead]

You know who really has it bad? The Islanders.

Try paying New York taxes with the none of the advantages of being the Rangers.

 

[Cmox]

You know who really has it bad? The Islanders.

Try paying New York taxes with the none of the advantages of being the Rangers.

Perfect time to announce this.

 

[LOFIN]

Yes, because my whole thing is that while it certainly is a factor, the Rangers have other advantages that other teams don't have. Fox, Kane, and Miller are just recent examples of players forcing their way here. It's objectively an attractive destination even with the tax rate. You could make the argument it's still the most attractive destination in the league! (Also, if they ponied up Lafreniere and/or Kakko, Tkachuk would be here instead of in Florida not paying taxes).

Should the league legislate it? Maybe, but I don't think they can. Every city has different taxes. What actually would be the solution?

Beyond that specific issue, there's way more than taxes that makes a free agency/trade destination, and again, there's nothing the league can do to make places equal. You have teams in 32 different cities, and people would rather live in some cities than others for a whole host of reasons.

When you put every possible reason into a blender, New York is still probably at the very top of the list. We're not in any position to say the league structure is unfair to us.

I could see a team like Winnipeg saying "how are we ever supposed to keep or attract players?" but again, what is the league supposed to about it?

I think the best argument about having some system of using a coefficient to adjust the salary cap based on state tax is Philadelphia (and New Jersey too I guess). Do you think all of those players live in Pensylvania? I bet a lot of those players actually live in the state of New Jersey. How would some tax balancing system work for that?

First of all, the whole thought of using one of those tax calculators is flawed. It calculates the net salary in a scenario every team would play 82 home games. You are actually taxed differently in every away game. Then we are going to get into how players are taxed when they make their paycheque on base salary vs signing bonuses. Auston Matthews pays like nothing to Ontario/Canada, he collects his big pay cheque in Arizona where is during the summer. Then, we are going to talk about deductions, everyone has some of those. Two people from the same team with identical contracts could have two different tax %. What about property taxes? Are we going to take into account those? Texas might not have a state tax, but their property taxes are among the highest in the country (at least that's what I think I heard ). So you sort all that out somehow. The end result would always mean that some owners are going to have to pay more for the same contract than other owners. Do you think that will fly?

And even if you solve that whole giant f***ing mess, are we then going to tackle the issue that Winnipeg is f***ing cold and a miserable shithole with nothing to do? Florida teams and NY/Toronto/LA have to pay more because the cities are cooler?

It's a giant f***ing cope. Tampa wasn't always great, there was a period when they were pretty bad and irrelevant. They fixed it by getting their organization in order, having some of the best drafting, and finding a great coach. Panthers were the laughing stock of the league for 20 years. Then Zito came in, they had some good players via picks but he made some great trades and signings, brought in a good coach, and now look at where they are. It's not because of taxes, it's because they got their house in order and did things right.