Around the NHL: Part XI – He's the #1 Cop on the Force!

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[FoxyClean]

If you think a 27 year old superstar is "too old" for this team...you're insane. Panarin is a year and a half older than Mika. He'd instantly become our best player if we signed him. That's something you don't pass up on. As has been repeated on this forum many times already...you don't win Cups with a team full of early-20 year olds. You need at least a couple of veteran centerpieces.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

If you think a 27 year old superstar is "too old" for this team...you're insane. Panarin is a year and a half older than Mika. He'd instantly become our best player if we signed him. That's something you don't pass up on. As has been repeated on this forum many times already...you don't win Cups with a team full of early-20 year olds. You need at least a couple of veteran centerpieces.

He will be too old when we are good. Hence no pls.

 

[FoxyClean]

He will be too old when we are good. Hence no pls.

Ok then, I'll pose this question. Who do you propose we sign with our immense cap space in the next 3 seasons? Not even trying to be demeaning. Genuinely curious.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Ok then, I'll pose this question. Who do you propose we sign with our immense cap space in the next 3 seasons? Not even trying to be demeaning. Genuinely curious.

Not him.

 

[FoxyClean]

Not him.

Cool

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Cool

Will be if they don't sign him and stick the course.

The windows just don't match. You don't buy things for the sake of it.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

RNH, Seth Jones, Hamilton, and McKinnon are all going to be up coming UFAs between 2020-2023, which will be the new window. Right now the Rangers just need to draft super high for a bit [as we will this year] and keep scouring the Euro/Eurasian leagues.

Also after this already weird playoffs, I think the META in the league is going to drastically shift again, so given the Rangers current position, it's definitely wise to hold for a bit.

 

[Matt4776]

Ok then, I'll pose this question. Who do you propose we sign with our immense cap space in the next 3 seasons? Not even trying to be demeaning. Genuinely curious.

It's all about flexibility.

Being able to sign Kakko and hopefully our other prospects to long-term deals instead of bridges (at the cost of a higher cap hit) will be able to keep our cap lower when we need it most at the cost of early years when we don't. That becomes harder to do with a Panarin on the books.

Very good/elite players shake through every season. Keeping the flexibility open is important so we can acquire those players at the right time.

For example, Mark Stone. We could acquire Panarin now. Let's say absolutely everything breaks right, and we're competing seriously for a Stanley Cup in 3 years. That would mean we're a contender when Kakko is 20 or 21, Kravtsov 21 or 22.etc .etc. In reality, not happening, but let's assume. How long is Panarin elite for? How long is he merely good but overpaid for? How long is he an albatross for?

Who knows. I don't know. And you don't know. BUT, I'd much rather take a risk on a player like Mark Stone in 3 years when the time comes. If we're in the playoffs and it costs a 1st round pick+ to acquire the right guy, so be it. I'd rather pay a 26 year old when we're in the prime of our window (even if it costs a bit extra in assets) than to pay someone who will be just about 28 3 years before our window opens in hope that he'll still be good on the wrong side of 30 when we are still competitive.

Who might the exact players be that become available? Who knows. Three years ago, would you have guessed that Tavares, Karlsson, Panarin would all become available? How about McDonagh? Stone? Hall before that?

Guys like this become available more than you think. And, we have a significant advantage: we're the New York Rangers. Players want to play for us, even when we're shit. If a player hits the market that we want, and we're young and good, we'll get almost anyone we want.

Flexibility is an incredibly important asset at this stage of the rebuild.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

It's all about flexibility.

Being able to sign Kakko and hopefully our other prospects to long-term deals instead of bridges (at the cost of a higher cap hit) will be able to keep our cap lower when we need it most at the cost of early years when we don't. That becomes harder to do with a Panarin on the books.

Very good/elite players shake through every season. Keeping the flexibility open is important so we can acquire those players at the right time.

For example, Mark Stone. We could acquire Panarin now. Let's say absolutely everything breaks right, and we're competing seriously for a Stanley Cup in 3 years. That would mean we're a contender when Kakko is 20 or 21, Kravtsov 21 or 22.etc .etc. In reality, not happening, but let's assume. How long is Panarin elite for? How long is he merely good but overpaid for? How long is he an albatross for?

Who knows. I don't know. And you don't know. BUT, I'd much rather take a risk on a player like Mark Stone in 3 years when the time comes. If we're in the playoffs and it costs a 1st round pick+ to acquire the right guy, so be it. I'd rather pay a 26 year old when we're in the prime of our window (even if it costs a bit extra in assets) than to pay someone who will be just about 28 3 years before our window opens in hope that he'll still be good on the wrong side of 30 when we are still competitive.

Who might the exact players be that become available? Who knows. Three years ago, would you have guessed that Tavares, Karlsson, Panarin would all become available? How about McDonagh? Stone? Hall before that?

Guys like this become available more than you think. And, we have a significant advantage: we're the New York Rangers. Players want to play for us, even when we're ****. If a player hits the market that we want, and we're young and good, we'll get almost anyone we want.

Flexibility is an incredibly important asset at this stage of the rebuild.

The "guy you can't pass up on" is ironically available every summer.

 

[eco's bones]

RNH, Seth Jones, Hamilton, and McKinnon are all going to be up coming UFAs between 2020-2023, which will be the new window. Right now the Rangers just need to draft super high for a bit [as we will this year] and keep scouring the Euro/Eurasian leagues.

Also after this already weird playoffs, I think the META in the league is going to drastically shift again, so given the Rangers current position, it's definitely wise to hold for a bit.

Colorado is going to open up the checkbook for Nathan MacKinnon. They are going to give him a massive contract and it's possible I suppose that he won't sign it but IMO anyone counting on that happening should not be an NHL GM. The same is likely to happen with Seth Jones. So the other question is Hamilton?--Dougie Hamilton--because he's just not that good that I'd get all in a sweat over---and the same with Nugent-Hopkins. Zibanejad's a better player than Nugent-Hopkins and who knows how good RNH is going to be 3 years from now. Chytil might be a better player than him by that time.

Panarin is the real deal and I can see him being a great player 5-6-7 years from now. He has 320 points in 4 seasons--that's averaging 80 a year. He is a guy who works well with others and it really doesn't matter all that much who the others are--so long as they've got at least okay talent which is one of the reasons why he should still be really good for a long, long time. He would help break in guys like Kakko and Kravtsov or be a boon to Chytil and Buchnevich.

So $11 million--it's obscene but Dolan's got it coming out of his asshole. Owning a cable company is kind of like owning a casino. You'd have to be a moron to bankrupt either--it's like having your own money printing machine. The Rangers have the cap space. They'll have a lot more after they get rid of Kreider and Lundqvist, Shattenkirk, Staal and Smith will be coming off the books in two years.

 

[Deleted member 23124]

Ok then, I'll pose this question. Who do you propose we sign with our immense cap space in the next 3 seasons? Not even trying to be demeaning. Genuinely curious.

I'll do the unthinkable and answer your question with a question: Why do we have to sign anyone?

Right now, we have way too many question marks on this team. It just doesn't make sense to give anyone a $10M-$11M, multi-year contract while you're still figuring out how your current roster will pan out.

 

[cheech70]

Lets look at some numbers

Panarin

2015-16

Chicago Blackhawks

NHL

80

30

47

77

32

8

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2016-17

Chicago Blackhawks

NHL

82

31

43

74

21

18

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2017-18

Columbus Blue Jackets

NHL

81

27

55

82

26

23

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

2018-19

Columbus Blue Jackets

NHL

79

28

59

87

23

14

|

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Breadman has only 4 seasons in the NHL seems like it should be a couple more
His numbers indicate that he is an elite playmaker as his assist totals are double his goal total the last 2 years.
That skill does not deteriorate drastically with age. Vision,IQ,touch are all transferable as he ages.

So lets try to forecast moving forward 7 years
Year 1 as a NYR 25 goals 50 assists
2 27 54
3 26 52
4 25 50
5 23 46
6 20 40
7 18 36

492 points in 560 games with the good chance its a point per game over 7 years.

In year 6 and 7 the cap is going to be what around 120 Million?

It would be better if he was a center but his passing is center like.

So he will be close to a point a game player which would rival our all time point getters in NYR history

So in 3 years our PP #1 will be Kakko,Vitaly,Mika,Miller and ADA

I am not too sure you can expect McKinnon,Seth Jones, Etc to be available that is a pipe dream.

I allocate Hayes money,Kreider money to Panarin and justify my 7 year $80 million contract

THE KEY IS DO NOT TRADE ANY 1ST ROUND PICKS

 

[SML2]

Some people around here are like a kid getting money for their birthday when it comes to cap space. It's just burning a hole in their pocket. Here is an idea. Don't spend to the cap. Build a structured balanced cap strategy. Don't create issues in your room where player x gets stupid money but gets out played by player y. Then player y comes to the table and justifiably wants his payday. Right now Henrik makes the most. I Don't want to pay anyone more than Henrik. In two years time he will be gone. At that point Kakko or Hughes will be in the last year of their ELC. We will know by then if we have a franchise guy who is worth north of 10m. Whowever that is, all salaries should fall in line behind that number. I Don't want a situation like Toronto where they have their face of franchise Matthews making 10+, theu get the shiny UFA Tavares now making 10+, but guess what, Marner is better than both of them and you have half your cap in 3 players. Patience. Have some patience.

 

[Ori]

Panarin will go after the money so it will be hard for any team who enjoy signing him as UFA. However I believe that Gordon going to upgrade their defense, and someone to replace Staal when his contract is over.

However Erik Karlsson he is too strong when he is hot/on - just like Panarin they push us out of a good 2020 1st rnd lottery pick and not an ideal age when we are suppose to contend next time. Besides it`s a huge investment and cap hit concerning Erik`s injury history, and one of the main reason that Ottawa started over with their rebuild. So hopefully others understand it too - it`s a huge risk we don`t need right now and cap commitment.

 

[Cag29]

RNH, Seth Jones, Hamilton, and McKinnon are all going to be up coming UFAs between 2020-2023, which will be the new window. Right now the Rangers just need to draft super high for a bit [as we will this year] and keep scouring the Euro/Eurasian leagues.

Also after this already weird playoffs, I think the META in the league is going to drastically shift again, so given the Rangers current position, it's definitely wise to hold for a bit.

There is
No guarantee those players make it to Free agents. I’m 50/50 on Panarin. But after hearing Torts rave about the guy I would probably sign him. Messier was 31 when he came to the Rangers.

 

[Irishguy42]

You cannot compare trading for an elite player vs signing an elite player as a UFA.

On top of giving up picks and prospects one would need to give up for an elite player, the UFA extension you then give to that player you traded for is going to be much larger and likely more of an albatross down the road than the contract you give to the elite player you signed a few years earlier.

Apples and oranges.

And no, once again, these actually elite players aren't available all the time and you can't just bank on them being available "when it fits our timeline."

 

[Synergy27]

There are valid arguments to be made on both sides of the Panarin problem. It basically boils down to whether you think the cupboard has been restocked enough to start moving upwards again. Even with Kakko, I worry that it hasn’t.

I’d prefer to get another set of great prospects at next years draft and then reassess the situation. The last thing I want is to stumble into another Jagr situation. Our prospect pool now is better than it was when Jagr showed up but I think the situations are very similar.

A Panarin for Kreider swap makes sense in a vacuum but there’s real potential that it’s an upgrade that propels the team back to mediocrity. I suppose the return on Kreider can mitigate that to a certain extent, i.e., replace the assets “lost” by not sucking so much next year, but that’s very risky. Maybe the Kreider trade brings back a 2020 draft pick and we hope for a Duchene like outcome?

The goal is to win the Cup, not make the second round of the playoffs.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

You cannot compare trading for an elite player vs signing an elite player as a UFA.

On top of giving up picks and prospects one would need to give up for an elite player, the UFA extension you then give to that player you traded for is going to be much larger and likely more of an albatross down the road than the contract you give to the elite player you signed a few years earlier.

Apples and oranges.

And no, once again, these actually elite players aren't available all the time and you can't just bank on them being available "when it fits our timeline."

Panarin would be our best forward since Jagr, and I am not even joking here.

Panarin is better than Gaborik, Nash, Richards or even St Louis when we acquired them.

 

[duhmetreE]

RNH, Seth Jones, Hamilton, and McKinnon are all going to be up coming UFAs between 2020-2023, which will be the new window. Right now the Rangers just need to draft super high for a bit [as we will this year] and keep scouring the Euro/Eurasian leagues.

Also after this already weird playoffs, I think the META in the league is going to drastically shift again, so given the Rangers current position, it's definitely wise to hold for a bit.

RNH and Hamilton should not be in the same sentence as MacKinnon and Jones

Hoping MacKinnon or Jones make it to UFA in 3-4 years is a bold strategy

 

[Leetch3]

RNH and Hamilton should not be in the same sentence as MacKinnon and Jones

Hoping MacKinnon or Jones make it to UFA in 3-4 years is a bold strategy

i think the point is that there will be UFAs and players available via trade when we are ready for that. and the idea that if we don't sign panarin that we are committing to a rebuild forever that some seem to thing is just silly. in recent years more and more top guys have hit UFA than ever before. so its likely that someone will be available in 2-3 years

 

[Leetch3]

Ok then, I'll pose this question. Who do you propose we sign with our immense cap space in the next 3 seasons? Not even trying to be demeaning. Genuinely curious.

just because we have the cap space, that doesn't mean we have to spend it. also doesn't mean that we need to commit it on guys for 7 years

 

[duhmetreE]

i think the point is that there will be UFAs and players available via trade when we are ready for that. and the idea that if we don't sign panarin that we are committing to a rebuild forever that some seem to thing is just silly. in recent years more and more top guys have hit UFA than ever before. so its likely that someone will be available in 2-3 years

It's the odds. There's 100% chance Panarin is a UFA. What are the chances for Jones and MacKinnon? Even if they do become UFA's, which is possible, why wouldn't we be able to sign them? We'd still be littered with ELC's/RFAs in 3-4 years.. all the while, shedding Sathers kakka

 

[haveandare]

Zero percent chance MacKinnon or Jones make it to UFA

 

[Leetch3]

It's the odds. There's 100% chance Panarin is a UFA. What are the chances for Jones and MacKinnon? Even if they do become UFA's, which is possible, why wouldn't we be able to sign them? We'd still be littered with ELC's/RFAs in 3-4 years.

its not 100% that panarin makes it to ufa...still time for him to get traded to fla and sign before july 1st

and what are the odds that panarin will still be a great player in the final 3-4 years of his contract making $11 mil per year given that even best case scenario we are gonna be terrible and waste him for the next 2-3 years? it has nothing to do with how good panarin is right now.