Around the NHL 2024-2025

[Brian39]

I don't want the players to be guilty or innocent. I want justice to be done and the process to play out. If they are found innocent by a fair trial, I won't be "butthurt".

Criminal defendants are not "found innocent" in a trial. They are either found "guilty" or found "not guilty." It sounds pedantic, but it is one of the most critical distinctions that we have in our society.

A guilty verdict is the conclusion that the prosecution has proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed the crime.

A not guilty verdict is the conclusion that the prosecution has failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed the crime.

There is very often a substantial amount of uncertainty between "I'm convinced he is innocent" and "I'm convinced he is guilty." We don't ask jurors in criminal trials to choose one of those absolutes in the face of uncertainty. The question we ask them is guilty (certainty) vs not guilty (uncertainty).

The presumption of innocence is a fundamental principal of our system and is a necessity to ensure a fair trial. Jurors are obligated to presume innocence entering trial and to maintain that presumption until the conclusion of all evidence/argument when they then reach a conclusion regarding question of guilt. At no point do they make a finding of innocence, as that would wildly shift the burden to the defendant and put jurors in an often impossible situation.

 

[Brian39]

Thanks for that, Brian. My general sense was that a trial by judge would slightly benefit the prosecution but what you say about it being a case by case basis makes perfect sense.

To be clear, I'd guess that a bench trial is favorable to a jury trial in well under 5% of felony cases (from a defense standpoint). I need a damn good reason to advise my client to waive their right to a jury.

Given what you said about the defense cross examination going well, are you surprised at all the prosecution elected to continue than start over? The girl did just go through 9 straight days of cross examination so yeah, maybe she’s just not willing to go through it again.

Not terribly.

I think that they could theoretically improve their odds of winning by a few percentage if they started over, but going this all again would be an absolutely horrible experience for the alleged victim. Cross examination is always a horrible experience in these types of cases, but cross examination when the defense now has a transcript of every answer you previously gave to every specific question is even worse. Even if she was willing to cooperate with round 2 of a trial, it would be a brutal experience with no guarantee that the added layer of impeachments doesn't rattle her and make things go even worse. And like you said, she may have flat out told the Crown, "I'm not doing that again" which means their options are continue to the judge or dismiss the charges outright.

 

[Majorityof1]

Criminal defendants are not "found innocent" in a trial. They are either found "guilty" or found "not guilty." It sounds pedantic, but it is one of the most critical distinctions that we have in our society.

A guilty verdict is the conclusion that the prosecution has proven, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed the crime.

A not guilty verdict is the conclusion that the prosecution has failed to prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the defendant committed the crime.

There is very often a substantial amount of uncertainty between "I'm convinced he is innocent" and "I'm convinced he is guilty." We don't ask jurors in criminal trials to choose one of those absolutes in the face of uncertainty. The question we ask them is guilty (certainty) vs not guilty (uncertainty).

The presumption of innocence is a fundamental principal of our system and is a necessity to ensure a fair trial. Jurors are obligated to presume innocence entering trial and to maintain that presumption until the conclusion of all evidence/argument when they then reach a conclusion regarding question of guilt. At no point do they make a finding of innocence, as that would wildly shift the burden to the defendant and put jurors in an often impossible situation.

I did graduate top 10% of my class at Wash U law and passed the bar in two states It's been awhile and I do not practice, but I know about burdens of proof and presumption of innocence. It was imprecise language as it was an off hand comment on a hockey forum.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I bet Toronto +600 to win the East before the playoffs....definitely rooting for them to figure it out but yes, def. has a "foregone conclusion" feel.

Evil gambling. Booooooo!!!

 

[Brian39]

I did graduate top 10% of my class at Wash U law and passed the bar in two states It's been awhile and I do not practice, but I know about burdens of proof and presumption of innocence. It was imprecise language as it was an off hand comment on a hockey forum.

I'm not sure if I didn't know or simply forgot that you were also dumb enough to decide to go to law school! I assume you practiced for a while if you put yourself through 2 bar exams. Congrats on (eventually) getting out of the profession.

Didn't intend to jump down your throat on it, but that misunderstanding is definitely one of my professional triggers. And you know that after a case like this there is going to be exhausting discourse whichever way it goes, so I wanted to get it out there.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I’ve long thought that defense attorneys are, in a way, the true defenders of the provisions in the US Constitution.

 

[Beninnola]

To stick with the legal theme, I’m pretty excited to see Matthews and Marner under cross examination shortly.

The stars took game 5 from Berube in 2019 and he overcame. Let’s see if he can get over the hump again.

 

[Majorityof1]

I'm not sure if I didn't know or simply forgot that you were also dumb enough to decide to go to law school! I assume you practiced for a while if you put yourself through 2 bar exams. Congrats on (eventually) getting out of the profession.

Didn't intend to jump down your throat on it, but that misunderstanding is definitely one of my professional triggers. And you know that after a case like this there is going to be exhausting discourse whichever way it goes, so I wanted to get it out there.

No worries. I definitely have my own triggers. You handle yours far better than I.

I've worked in a few different industries and discussed those roles on here, but no reason you should have remembered I started in law. I did practice. After graduation I worked in a mid-sized firm under a partner who was a walking stereotype of every sleezy lawyer joke doing the most useless work in construction litigation between equally corrupt contractors (Primes and Subs) fighting over who got to keep more of the money they were overcharging their customers. I hated it.

I quit. I took the next year getting my MBA. During that time, I met an Angel Investor. He was looking for an attorney to join his company to handle the contracts and work with the brokers on compliance for stock transfers, as well as a whole bunch of weird odds and ends an eccentric rich dude would need. He primarily worked out of Florida, so I moved there. The company was headquartered in my home state, and I didn't ever go to court, so I didn't need to take the bar again. But I did for reasons I could not explain now.

All told, I probably had an active license for 7 years including the one-year break of getting my MBA. My boss who funded all the deals passed away young, so the company wrapped up. I didn't want to go back to a law firm or start my own practice, so I stopped practicing. I never loved it and get bored of working in the same field for too long. I have no desire to ever go back.

 

[TheOrganist]

I did graduate top 10% of my class at Wash U law and passed the bar in two states It's been awhile and I do not practice, but I know about burdens of proof and presumption of innocence. It was imprecise language as it was an off hand comment on a hockey forum.

So you’re 6’7”, 220. You graduated top in your class. You were a JD and have an MBA. You are an MMA fighter. Let me guess you’re hung like Tommy Lee and banged Ashley Judd in her prime.

 

[Majorityof1]

So you’re 6’7”, 220. You graduated top in your class. You were a JD and have an MBA. You are an MMA fighter. Let me guess you’re hung like Tommy Lee and banged Ashley Judd in her prime.

Close. 6'6" but probably 265 now. 220-25 was my fighting weight. Yes, I have a JD and an MBA. I studied Jeet Kun Do with BJJ, Wing Chun and Thai Boxing for several years while in college and grad school. I fought several fights, mostly amateur but a few low-level pro ones. I was ok at it, winning most of the amateur and a more than 1 pro. I never met any of the Judds but I did once see Reba McIntyre at a restaurant in Nashville. I didn't sleep with her though.

Here is a picture of 2 of my degrees and one of my bar cards. I don't have a physical copy of my MBA and don't know where my Florida license got too. I covered my name because you seem rather stalkerish right now busting out my dossier. But it should prove at least some of those things (not sure why I care).

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Close. 6'6" but probably 265 now. 220-25 was my fighting weight. Yes, I have a JD and an MBA. I studied Jeet Kun Do with BJJ, Wing Chun and Thai Boxing for several years while in college and grad school. I fought several fights, mostly amateur but a few low-level pro ones. I was ok at it, winning most of the amateur and a more than 1 pro. I never met any of the Judds but I did once see Reba McIntyre at a restaurant in Nashville. I didn't sleep with her though.

Here is a picture of 2 of my degrees and one of my bar cards. I don't have a physical copy of my MBA and don't know where my Florida license got too. I covered my name because you seem rather stalkerish right now busting out my dossier. But it should prove at least some of those things (not sure why I care).

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I believe it. The reality is that there are lots of people with lots of cool experiences. Respectfully, I recall one time you questioned the experiences of another member here. Someone with such a seemingly incredible background (but is, in fact, credible) shouldn’t think others are inflating their experiences.

 

[TheOrganist]

I did get a kick out of the middle finger

 

[Memento]

I believe it. The reality is that there are lots of people with lots of cool experiences. Respectfully, I recall one time you questioned the experiences of another member here. Someone with such a seemingly incredible background (but is, in fact, credible) shouldn’t think others are inflating their experiences.

I'm more willing to believe than most, but I understand that people can be liars without proof (like I was as an asshole teen, and yeah, karma bit me hard in the ass for it).

As for me, I don't really have that many really "cool" experiences in life when it comes to actually "working". Failed high school miserably because I kept arguing with the teachers and getting suspended, and had to go to a specific program for kids in similar positions where I went into the workforce to get a high school diploma. Worked a volunteer job at Monsanto for three "college" school years (for people with autism like I have, Down Syndrome, and other such disabilities; on the grounds at first for about two months, and then in the kitchen for the rest of the time). Worked a lot of summer jobs: a bagger at Schnuck's, a job as a cleaner in a hotel (where I promptly quit when I found the hotel room I was cleaning full of powder and pills, both in and out of many, many little plastic baggies. My employer demanded I clean it, and I wasn't going to touch any drugs.), worked at Marshall's (a clothing store). Worked in at least three or four retirement homes (including the specific program for kids), doing everything from grounds (temporarily; the high school responsible didn't want me outside in the winter for liability reasons), cleaning the place (vacuuming, dusting, mopping, the like) to laundry (where I got bored quickly) to all kinds of kitchen work in the last one.

I'd say I'm a writer, but I'm not an authoress until I actually publish something, and I haven't. So, I'm just going to say I'm on disability (and no longer in the workforce after the last retirement job screwed me over a year after I worked there), especially now that I'm in a wheelchair permanently.

EDIT: That's not to say that I disbelieve Majority, far from it, especially now that he gave proof. Just saying that the Internet is full of misinformation.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

I'm more willing to believe than most, but I understand that people can be liars without proof (like I was as an asshole teen, and yeah, karma bit me hard in the ass for it).

As for me, I don't really have that many really "cool" experiences in life when it comes to actually "working". Failed high school miserably because I kept arguing with the teachers and getting suspended, and had to go to a specific program for kids in similar positions where I went into the workforce to get a high school diploma. Worked a volunteer job at Monsanto for three "college" school years (for people with autism like I have, Down Syndrome, and other such disabilities; on the grounds at first for about two months, and then in the kitchen for the rest of the time). Worked a lot of summer jobs: a bagger at Schnuck's, a job as a cleaner in a hotel (where I promptly quit when I found the hotel room I was cleaning full of powder and pills, both in and out of many, many little plastic baggies. My employer demanded I clean it, and I wasn't going to touch any drugs.), worked at Marshall's (a clothing store). Worked in at least three or four retirement homes (including the specific program for kids), doing everything from grounds (temporarily; the high school responsible didn't want me outside in the winter for liability reasons), cleaning the place (vacuuming, dusting, mopping, the like) to laundry (where I got bored quickly) to all kinds of kitchen work in the last one.

I'd say I'm a writer, but I'm not an authoress until I actually publish something, and I haven't. So, I'm just going to say I'm on disability (and no longer in the workforce after the last retirement job screwed me over a year after I worked there), especially now that I'm in a wheelchair permanently.

EDIT: That's not to say that I disbelieve Majority, far from it, especially now that he gave proof. Just saying that the Internet is full of misinformation.

Girl, you just laid out some rough stuff, but you’ve shared way more awesomeness in yourself than all of that other stuff.

We love you, as is.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Seems to me that this hockey canada trial is a complete clusterfk. Ac broken. Elevators not working. Throwing out jury cuz defense lawyer spoke to juror. Then another juror on 2nd jury bizzately thinks same lawyer is laughing about and making fun of her appearence(this seems like just paranojd crp by that juror) and now judge deciding case and not jury. So many dange breaks every day. This case is moving at snails pace

 

[The Note]

Go Leafs

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

Looking forward to this game 7. Gutty win tonight.

 

[TheOrganist]

Not the most convincing win I’ve ever seen but they did what they had to do on the road and got a clutch goal for a change. This is where Berube is at his best. Being that calming influence amid stormy waters. Game 7 will be fun.

 

[stl76]

Happy for the leafs, gonna be a super fun game 7!



On a more somber note, apparently Mark Scheifele’s dad just passed away. Game 6 and what could be the biggest moment in your professional career and suddenly you have a traumatic shock to you family. I can’t imagine what the guy’s gotta be going thru…just awful.

 

[Xerloris]

Happy for the leafs, gonna be a super fun game 7!



On a more somber note, apparently Mark Scheifele’s dad just passed away. Game 6 and what could be the biggest moment in your professional career and suddenly you have a traumatic shock to you family. I can’t imagine what the guy’s gotta be going thru…just awful.

Maybe he has a Marty StLouis game after his Mom died.

 

[MissouriMook]

Schiefele scores the first goal of the game less than 24 hours after losing his dad.

 

[TheDizee]

toodaloo jets

 

[mk80]

Thanks Stars for ensuring our collapse in the last minutes of game 7 doesn’t result in Cup run for the Jets.

Sorry to hear the news on Schiefele’s father, my condolences to him and his family.

 

[WeWantTacos]

A fitting way for the special teams Jets to be ejected; down a man. Helleyuck scooting butt-first across the ice with the gracefulness of a baby elephant trying to stop a top-corner shot was a nice touch, too.

 

[Davimir Tarablad]

Schiefele scores the first goal of the game less than 24 hours after losing his dad.

And in the penalty box for the series winner. Can't imagine how that felt.