Around the NHL 2024-2025

[TheOrganist]

Not sure if the timing will line up right for Monty to return to StL. Somewhat related. David Carle is still a very interesting option in the future.

Take this for what it’s worth, but rumor has it Monty had a positive experience in StL and that this info was relayed to Carle.

Montgomery's wife is from STL. He played here. He won a Cup here. I doubt anything happens immediately or even in-season but I mean it makes all the sense in the world.

 

[Brian39]

The something going on behind the scenes would be my concern. The Bruins know his record, and they (rumored) want to move on anyway. We know he's had personal problems before. He has had a couple incidents this season (screaming at marchand) that I think we're blown out of proportion, but maybe were bigger than I think. He might not be handling the pressure well. He also has early playoff exits after those great regular seasons. Bruins have more info than we do, and if they let him go, they decided the bad outweighed the good.

I'm not saying he would be a bad coach here or we shouldn't consider him. I'm just trying to look at it from more angles. People have wanted Bannister gone from the second he took the job. But I think we are better off than we should be given roster and injuries. I don't see the need to drive him out of town.

Boston also knew Bruce Cassidy's record. He took them to game 7 of a Cup Final in 2019 and a President's trophy in 2020. In his 6 total seasons in Boston the lowest point total (or pace in shortened seasons) was 106. In his final season in Boston they went 51-26-5 and lost to the Hurricanes in round 1. All in all, he had a 245-108-46 record in Boston.

He was fired that summer, hired by Vegas a week later, and then won the Cup the following spring.

Unless we get some actual reports about persoal issues, can we not jump to 'something must be going on behind the scenes' just because Monty had a stellar regular season record? We're only a couple years removed from Boston firing a different good coach who had a great record but appeared to be trending in the wrong direction for their organization.

 

[Reality Czech]

Boston also knew Bruce Cassidy's record. He took them to game 7 of a Cup Final in 2019 and a President's trophy in 2020. In his 6 total seasons in Boston the lowest point total (or pace in shortened seasons) was 106. In his final season in Boston they went 51-26-5 and lost to the Hurricanes in round 1. All in all, he had a 245-108-46 record in Boston.

He was fired that summer, hired by Vegas a week later, and then won the Cup the following spring.

Unless we get some actual reports about persoal issues, can we not jump to 'something must be going on behind the scenes' just because Monty had a stellar regular season record? We're only a couple years removed from Boston firing a different good coach who had a great record but appeared to be trending in the wrong direction for their organization.

Lol why do you care? It doesn't have to be personal issues but if it's not because of the team's performance on the ice then there must be some unseen reason he was let go this quickly. You'd think he would have got more slack because of his record unless there was a conflict between the coach and players or management.

Behind the scenes might just be personality clashes or issues with how he approaches things. Pretty clear that Cassidy was also let go because of behind the scenes reasons. Clearly he rubbed someone the wrong way. Not sure why it's a subject we shouldn't be allowed to discuss.

 

[BlueDream]

Honestly don’t understand people speculating on the “behind the scenes” stuff, as if this firing is surprising or something. It isn’t.

Here’s what happened in Boston:

- historic regular season that ended in a first round collapse
- another early exit the following season
- rough start to the 3rd season, currently out of the playoff picture

That’s a pretty standard trajectory for a coach getting fired. Their shelf life is around 3 years on average. You really don’t need to speculate on any drama as to why they’re making a change.

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I think it's as simple as Don Sweeney having a terrible offseason on the heels of a team reaching the end of their Cup window and needing a scapegoat for the team's poor play.

 

[Majorityof1]

Boston also knew Bruce Cassidy's record. He took them to game 7 of a Cup Final in 2019 and a President's trophy in 2020. In his 6 total seasons in Boston the lowest point total (or pace in shortened seasons) was 106. In his final season in Boston they went 51-26-5 and lost to the Hurricanes in round 1. All in all, he had a 245-108-46 record in Boston.

He was fired that summer, hired by Vegas a week later, and then won the Cup the following spring.

Unless we get some actual reports about persoal issues, can we not jump to 'something must be going on behind the scenes' just because Monty had a stellar regular season record? We're only a couple years removed from Boston firing a different good coach who had a great record but appeared to be trending in the wrong direction for their organization.

Cassidy had 6 years though. It's more common for a successful coach to have a shelf life after 6 years and was fired in the offseason. Monty has been there 2.25 years, less than the very short average tenure of NHL coaches, and would be fired 20 some games in. That is a quick firing fir a mostly successful coach that is currently in a playoff spot

 

[Majorityof1]

Honestly don’t understand people speculating on the “behind the scenes” stuff, as if this firing is surprising or something. It isn’t.

Here’s what happened in Boston:

- historic regular season that ended in a first round collapse
- another early exit the following season
- rough start to the 3rd season, currently out of the playoff picture

That’s a pretty standard trajectory for a coach getting fired. Their shelf life is around 3 years on average. You really don’t need to speculate on any drama as to why they’re making a change.

I don't think "historic regular season" and "standard trajectory" go together.

 

[BlueDream]

I don't think "historic regular season" and "standard trajectory" go together.

It does if you would read the rest of the post.

They should keep Montgomery because of what he did 2 years ago in the regular season? That’s not really how things work.

 

[Brian39]

I think it's pretty much a lock that something was going on behind the scenes. When's the last time an NHL coach has publicly called out his top two forwards and starting goalie within a couple of weeks?

I was shocked by how bad Boston looked the other day. Their roster has flaws but that was an embarrassing effort to get outplayed by this weakened Blues team at home. Wouldn't surprise me if he had lost the room and then you've gotta ask how that can happen so suddenly after the success they had recently.

To clarify, he didn't publicly call them all out. He benched Pasta, got into an argument with Marchand and very mildly called out Swayman.

This was what he publicly said about Marchand the first time he was asked about him following the bench argument: "You could tell how happy the bench was when he scored. He's our leader. He's someone that embodies what it is to be a Bruin the right way, the way he carries himself... he's our Captain." That's pretty far from publicly calling a guy out.

He benched Pasta for a period and this was his public statement after the game: “Coach’s decision in the third period. That’s all I’m gonna comment on."

The Swayman call out was his answer to a reported who asked if he felt that the lack of training camp was impacting his game: "I don't think missing training camp helps anyone. That's why you have training camps... But by no means do I think today is Jeremy Swayman not having training camp. We're long into that now."

I don't really think this stuff is any worse/different than what we saw from Hitch or Berube during their stints here. I do think that the team looked awful and very well might have quit on him. But I don't think that means something else was going on. Our veteran roster appeared to quit on Berube all of a sudden in 2022/23 and I certainly don't think that there was anything going on behind the scenes.

 

[Reality Czech]

Honestly don’t understand people speculating on the “behind the scenes” stuff, as if this firing is surprising or something. It isn’t.

Here’s what happened in Boston:

- historic regular season that ended in a first round collapse
- another early exit the following season
- rough start to the 3rd season, currently out of the playoff picture

That’s a pretty standard trajectory for a coach getting fired. Their shelf life is around 3 years on average. You really don’t need to speculate on any drama as to why they’re making a change.

Fair enough, but it makes me wonder why the team looked like it quit on him this season. Seems like everyone assumes Monty is a great coach, so it begs the question why does his team look like they stopped trying less than 20 games into the season?

I know he's a likeable guy and has gotten results at times in recent years, but not sure why everyone assumes he'd make such a huge difference with this current Blues team. If he couldn't get a more talented Boston roster over the hump, why do so many Blues fans seem to think he's the best choice to coach here?

 

[SirPaste]

Montgomery's wife is from STL. He played here. He won a Cup here. I doubt anything happens immediately or even in-season but I mean it makes all the sense in the world.

He didn't win a cup here, he came later on. He was coaching Dallas that season when we beat them.

 

[Reality Czech]

To clarify, he didn't publicly call them all out. He benched Pasta, got into an argument with Marchand and very mildly called out Swayman.

This was what he publicly said about Marchand the first time he was asked about him following the bench argument: "You could tell how happy the bench was when he scored. He's our leader. He's someone that embodies what it is to be a Bruin the right way, the way he carries himself... he's our Captain." That's pretty far from publicly calling a guy out.

He benched Pasta for a period and this was his public statement after the game: “Coach’s decision in the third period. That’s all I’m gonna comment on."

The Swayman call out was his answer to a reported who asked if he felt that the lack of training camp was impacting his game: "I don't think missing training camp helps anyone. That's why you have training camps... But by no means do I think today is Jeremy Swayman not having training camp. We're long into that now."

I don't really think this stuff is any worse/different than what we saw from Hitch or Berube during their stints here. I do think that the team looked awful and very well might have quit on him. But I don't think that means something else was going on. Our veteran roster appeared to quit on Berube all of a sudden in 2022/23 and I certainly don't think that there was anything going on behind the scenes.

Very true, every coach has a shelf life no matter how good they are. I'm just surprised how suddenly it happened in Boston. I don't see anything wrong with what he said about Marchy, Pasta or Swayman but it's risky to single out your star players like that. Benching Pasta is a bold move regardless of if he deserved it or not considering how much money they've invested in him.

 

[TheOrganist]

He didn't win a cup here, he came later on. He was coaching Dallas that season when we beat them.

Oy. Yes. My bad.

 

[TheOrganist]

I mostly agree and like you I was perfectly content with Kap having a job here as a depth option.

That said, I'm not mad about ownership not spending the $800k(ish) of remaining salary for him to play in the AHL and be a depth option. That isn't a huge positive for the organization, but it should be weighed against the negative of not having him available as a call up down the line.

This year is going to be a financial loss for the Blues. Thomas, Kyrou, Binner, Schenn, Buch, Krug, and Parayko all make more real dollars than cap dollars. All told, NHL payroll is above $95M this season. Add $1M-$2M more if Suter hits bonuses. That number includes Krug, but I'm not sure how much insurance is covering on his deal. I think it is a safe bet that the NHL payroll will be north of $90M. Attendance is not great and likely will continue that way. We're not in danger of relocating or anything like that, but trimming an NHL salary from the budget if he's not on the NHL team in a year like this is noticeable.

What are you talking about? The blues are almost at 97% capacity and probably have a solid 14k season ticket base (during a rough stretch of playoff-less hockey i might add) which would be the envy of nearly all small-mid market US teams. Investors have probably seen their asset grow 5,000% for those who got in at the ground floor. This is probably the most financially healthy the Blues have ever been.

 

[Dr Robot]

What are you talking about? The blues are almost at 97% capacity and probably have a solid 14k season ticket base (during a rough stretch of playoff-less hockey i might add) which would be the envy of nearly all small-mid market US teams. Investors have probably seen their asset grow 5,000% for those who got in at the ground floor. This is probably the most financially healthy the Blues have ever been.

The secondary market for blues tickets is dirt cheap. Stubhub has 5$ tickets listed for Thursday. 12$ after fees. That’s dragging revenue down. Our attendance numbers are still pretty good but we aren’t setting the world on fire. It’s a fair concern if our play continues to slump and the cap keeps rising, im not sure revenue will be able to keep up.

 

[Stupendous Yappi]

He didn't win a cup here, he came later on. He was coaching Dallas that season when we beat them.

Yeah, Binnington pretended he didn’t know his name.

 

[mk80]

Alright don’t give up another empty netter to the goalie

Edit: wrong thread

 

[Snubbed4Vezina]

The secondary market for blues tickets is dirt cheap. Stubhub has 5$ tickets listed for Thursday. 12$ after fees. That’s dragging revenue down. Our attendance numbers are still pretty good but we aren’t setting the world on fire. It’s a fair concern if our play continues to slump and the cap keeps rising, im not sure revenue will be able to keep up.

Secondary prices don't matter. Somebody has to pay the full ticket price in the first place to re-sell. Why would the team care? Am I missing something?

 

[Dr Robot]

Secondary prices don't matter. Somebody has to pay the full ticket price in the first place to re-sell. Why would the team care? Am I missing something?

It shows weakness in overall demand. Someone in the upper deck is trying to give their tickets away and demand isn’t their to take them. Granted that was just me pulling this weeks data from stubhub so it’s not scientific. It still indicates that people just aren’t interested in the blues right now, regardless of how low the price. That will start to eat into those full price first buys soon enough.

 

[PocketNines]

half the league is .500 or below when an average pt percentage is .557 due to the extra point

the Blues actually hold the 5th overall pick at the moment

somehow the Blackhawks, Sharks and Predators are all worse lol

 

[Brian39]

What are you talking about? The blues are almost at 97% capacity and probably have a solid 14k season ticket base (during a rough stretch of playoff-less hockey i might add) which would be the envy of nearly all small-mid market US teams. Investors have probably seen their asset grow 5,000% for those who got in at the ground floor. This is probably the most financially healthy the Blues have ever been.

You could buy tickets to the home opener from the team (not re-sale tickets) on the week and the day of the game. I don't know whether that game eventually sold out, but if so it was barely.

There were tickets available from the team on the day of a Saturday night game against the Maple Leafs. Two or three years ago I sold tickets to a Blues/Leafs game for 4 times the price of my season ticket cost. This year there were below face-value tickets available all week before the game. I sat next to two empty seats that either went unsold or unused.

These are premium nights that the team is struggling to sell out. In the past, those games were selling out quick.

To boost sales, the team brought back mini plans and are offering free tickets when you buy one. They started their "hat trick" subscription selling tickets for below face value on games that aren't selling well. They are offering pro-rated season tickets.

They absolutely don't have 14k season ticket holders. That was the number they capped season tickets at when they had a wait list after the Cup win. The waitlist is long gone and as a former season ticket holder I'm getting a call or email almost weekly asking if I'm interested in a prorated package. There is no way they are at season ticket capacity.

There are noticeable pockets of empty seats every night. Not selling tickets and/or having season ticket holders not go (and be unable offload their tickets) means that there are less people in the building spending money.

As I said, I'm not concerned about the team relocating. And while I didn't explicitly say it, I'm not remotely concerned about the long term financial health of the franchise. This isn't a disaster and valuation has absolutely increased. Being an owner of the team has been a fantastic investment and there were certainly several years of (likely large) profit that the owners were able to pocket.

But they aren't going to turn a profit this year and millionaires and billionaires don't like having to pump money into the business to cover payroll. Even if they had pocketed profits in previous years and are seeing their investment value grow. When on ice results aren't there and revenue decreases, basically every owner in sports prefers to cut payroll. We have a really good owner who is willing to pay real dollars to help the on-ice product, but he (and the rest of the group) would obviously like to limit expenses when there is little/no tangible benefit for paying those expenses.

We have the 3rd highest salary payroll in the league. Our attendance total per game is middle of the pack and our average cost of attendance is below the middle of the pack. Barring a sharp improvement in the team, it is going to become harder to sell tickets and get people in the building as the season wears on.

The balance sheet is going to be negative this year. Shaving payroll by not having to pay an AHL player another $800k is a good thing. I'm not sure it completely outweighs the potential benefit of having him available for injury relief down the line, but I guarantee you ownership isn't upset about their losses decreasing by $800k or so.

 

[Brian39]

Secondary prices don't matter. Somebody has to pay the full ticket price in the first place to re-sell. Why would the team care? Am I missing something?

Secondary prices do matter. They aren't everything, but they very much impact the team's ability to sell currently-unsold tickets. Not many people are buying the $35 ticket from the team when there is a re-sale ticket in the same section for $12. They're not buying the $100 ticket from the team when there is a $70 resale ticket from the same ticket seller (Ticketmaster) that guarantees legitimacy.

There are currently hundreds (and potentially over 1,000) unsold tickets to the 12/27 game against Nashville. There are 3 sections with 100+ unsold seats and several more sections with 50+ unsold seats. On Ticketmaster you can get re-sale tickets for about 70%-80% of face value right now. Other resale sites have tickets for 50% of the face value at the moment. That means that almost no one will be buying those unsold tickets unless/until the Blues run a special to sell them at a discount.

That game is the Friday after Christmas. A weekend game vs a division rival when all the college kids are home for break. That should be an easy sell out and in past years it was. The market being flooded with cheap resale seats is going to make it very, very difficult for the Blues to sell out that game.

It's not just that game. We have two Saturday games against the Hawks in 2025 that currently have large swaths of unsold seats and re-sale tickets undercutting face value by a noticeable margin. Sunday and Saturday games against the Avs with the same story. Same thing for saturday against the Stars.

Low re-sale prices are a sign of low demand and the availability of cheap secondhand tickets limit sales of the seats not-yet sold. Long term, they discourage people from renewing season tickets. The primary reason I didn't renew my half-season package was because of how hard it was to sell the games I couldn't make and the frequency with which I could get cheaper tickets on the re-sale market. I'm on pace to go to as many games this year as I did when I held a half package and it looks like I'm going to spend several hundred dollars less (factoring in the savings from the STH discount on concessions).

 

[TheOrganist]

I agree with most of your analysis and I don't doubt that their operating income & profitability is taking a hit during this lean period (which of course is exacerbated by any consumer facing business post-covid) for the reasons you laid out but I sincerely doubt there are any cash calls going on...they'll do what all businesses do to pay for the shortfalls (if any) and tap an LOC for working capital and/or lean on some of the extraordinary income that has been received by all these teams over the last few years with expansion money, etc.

I believe they had to take a bridge loan during Covid that has since been paid off and my understanding is they are receiving hardly any haircut in annual revenue rec'd from Diamond Sports during their bankruptcy proceedings. So there are other streams of revenue still coming in. I was just commenting on your sort of dystopian take of the Blues finances/relocation comment. The league as a whole is pretty healthy.

14K season ticket base is probably too rosy I guess but when you're at 97% capacity in the fall and the team stinks and there isn't much demand in the re-sale market that's usually a sign of a fairly healthy season ticket base b/c capacity wouldn't be that high.

Now, if we start getting into 5, 6, 7 years without a playoff appearance and if their new deal is structured with Fanduel/Amazon so that they are taking a $10 mil income hit and the new national TV deal with the Canadian market is way less than the $2 bil they got previously w/ Rogers then yes that starts to get a little concerning...but again, like Real Estate, sports teams are some of the best assets to own at the moment; and it will start to become even more liquid for these investors when private equity starts to get involved.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Marcus Foligno slapped his high hard one and busted Zuccs nut.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Krapanen makes his debut tonight for the Doilies.

Ovi broken leg. He'll catch Gretzky next season.