Around the NHL 2023-24 - offseason part II

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Half agree.

I agree the Preds are toiling in mediocrity, but the Sharks are still in worse shape than we were in 2017. They were in even worse shape when Grier took over than what we were when Shero took over.

Celebrini helps, but there's still a lot of old deadweight still under contract. The Sharks got a longggggg way to go, just like we did.

What the Predators did this summer reminds me of something the Rangers were doing in the early 00s though.

Eh, I don't agree. They have elite prospects coming through their ranks soon, the Pacific is dogshit and the Oilers/Vegas might go into rebuilds very soon if McDavid/Drai leave and the Knights are basically done for with the roster they've built and the hemorrhaging they've done through trades. The Sharks will be very good in short order here.

 

[Bleedred]

Kudos to Askarov for getting his trade and not having to rot in the minors for another year.

You can’t weigh this fully until we see what Askarov ends up becoming. If he becomes a dominant goal tender in the league, it will appear that Trotz mismanaged the situation by paying the veteran and dealing the kid. Since Trotz is not usually thought to be a fool, it may well be that they don’t see Askarov developing into quite so exceptional a player.

He just may have to rot in the minors for at least part of another year. Have you seen who the two NHL goalies they already have signed in front of him are?

I'm sure they expect Blackwood to make his sometimes possibly multiple trips to the IR. He almost lasted until the first of March last year.

 

[MartyOwns]

is august even allowed to be this exciting?

 

[Andre Palot]

is august even allowed to be this exciting?

It's basically September.

 

[Saugus]

is august even allowed to be this exciting?

No. If it was any more interesting, Lou would find a way to make it cut its hair.

 

[Bleedred]

Eh, I don't agree. They have elite prospects coming through their ranks soon, the Pacific is dogshit and the Oilers/Vegas might go into rebuilds very soon if McDavid/Drai leave and the Knights are basically done for with the roster they've built and the hemorrhaging they've done through trades. The Sharks will be very good in short order here.

You had me until McDavid/Drai leaving.

I'm not sure why there's still the belief either are on the way out. Especially since they just made game 7 of the SCF and have at least reached the conference finals in 2 of the last 3 years.

Yeah, Vegas seems like they're on the downswing, but I think they're still a ways from being really bad. They'll probably float around like the Pens and Caps (and Preds before the recent UFA overhaul) have for several years before really falling apart.

Or they could even still be a contending team this year when nobody expects it. That wouldn't shock me.

But yeah, I think they're on the downswing.

I don't think the Sharks are really that close. We've seen what happens to teams in that bad of shape, like us and Detroit.

They aren't in that bad of shape anymore, but they certainly were in worse shape (definitely in worse shape than us, not sure about Detroit) 2 years ago when the rebuild really started.

I expect they'll improve a little this year (barring Askarov really lighting it on fire), but will probably still be bottom-2 in the division. I think they can finish in front of Anaheim, and I wouldn't be flabbergasted if Calgary is so bad they they finish in front of them also.

 

[Guadana]

They still have a while before they're a consistent playoff team and even longer for a contender.

Give me an example of a team that came back from the dead that fast. Maybe I just can't think of any. Not in any kind of recent history.

I think they probably have another at least 5 years before they're really a consistent playoff team if all goes well.

I'm not saying they can't make the playoffs once before 5 years, but I don't think they will consistently.

They have about a half a decade left before there's sustainable success there. Maybe they can reach some attainable success before that, like the 2018 Devils playoff year/Hall MVP year, but it's unrealistic to think they're closer than 5 years away from being a consistent playoff team.

Maybe if Askarov really is that good he can speed up that process though.

They definitely need all the old clunkers out of there first. The Vlasic's and Couture's particularly. I'm shocked they didn't buy out Vlasic this offseason. He's been shot for many years now.

Celebrini is a perfect 1OA material, perfect two way center
Smith was very productive in USHL. Historically. 71 points in 41 games in NCAA in D+1.
Dickinson is top-4 may be top-2 material.
Mukhamadullin is a very good top-4 material.
Musty had 100 points season in OHL with 40 goals in 50 games in D+1. He has power forwarding in his game. Great top-6\top line material.
Bystedt is a two way big center with two seasons with 20 points in 45-50 games in SHL. Very good material for 3C role.
As Lund. 30 points in 35 games in NCAA as 19 yo.
Chernyshov is a top-6 material - big, mobile, fast, good shot, great stickhandling(one of the best on the 2024 draft), good two way game.
Guschin is PPG winger in 21 years.
Eklund has 45 points as 21 yo in NHL in 80 games.
Thrun is fine big young defenseman with potential.

And now they traded Askarov.

Grier doing fine, Bleedred. Very fine. They already have everything. And most of it is on the best level you can ask. Grier did it in two years. And this young roster doesnt need 4-5 years. And their division isnt that hard. Its not "Devils 2017". Its Sharks 2024. With all the pieces already. Many of them needs development - thats the difference. But they are already there - thats the difference too. There are no "Hall", there are no "other 2017 Devils".

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

You had me until McDavid/Drai leaving.

I'm not sure why there's still the belief either are on the way out. Especially since they just made game 7 of the SCF and have at least reached the conference finals in 2 of the last 3 years.

Yeah, Vegas seems like they're on the downswing, but I think they're still a ways from being really bad. They'll probably float around like the Pens and Caps (and Preds before the recent UFA overhaul) have for several years before really falling apart.

Or they could even still be a contending team this year when nobody expects it. That wouldn't shock me.

But yeah, I think they're on the downswing.

I don't think the Sharks are really that close. We've seen what happens to teams in that bad of shape, like us and Detroit.

They aren't in that bad of shape anymore, but they certainly were in worse shape (definitely in worse shape than us, not sure about Detroit) 2 years ago when the rebuild really started.

I expect they'll improve a little this year (barring Askarov really lighting it on fire), but will probably still be bottom-2 in the division. I think they can finish in front of Anaheim, and I wouldn't be flabbergasted if Calgary is so bad they they finish in front of them also.

Because it's hockey, we lost Parise/Kovy in a year span after winning the East, why can't it happen to Edmonton?

 

[Bleedred]

Celebrini is a perfect 1OA material, perfect two way center
Smith was very productive in USHL. Historically. 71 points in 45 games in NCAA in D+1.
Dickinson it top-4 may be top-2 material.
Mukhamadullin is a very good top-4 material.
Musty had 100 points season in OHL with 40 goals in 50 games. He has power forwarding in his game. Great top-6\top line material.
Bystedt is a two way big center with two seasons with 20 points in 45-50 games in SHL. Very good material for 3C role.
As Lund. 30 points in NCAA as 19 yo.
Chernyshov is a top-6 material - big, mobile, good shot, great stickhandling(one of the best on the 2024 draft), good two way game.
Guschin is PPG winger in 21 years.
Eklund has 40 points as 21 yo in NHL.
Thrun is fine big young defenseman with potential.

And now they traded Askarov.

Grier doing fine, Bleedred. Very fine. They already have everything. And most of it is on the best level you can ask. Grier did it in two years. And this young roster doesnt need 4-5 years. And their division isnt that hard.

I don't disagree with much of this, other than I think they're still a ways out.

The one thing I haven't considered in the argument that they won't be bad for much longer is that their division is really bad. I agree with that and really didn't take that into much consideration. Although I'd still be really shocked if McDrai leave Edmonton and Vegas really falters this soon, but Anaheim probably aren't better off than they are right now and Calgary is really stuck in the mud.

I think I'd still give it 5 years before saying they could start being a consistent playoff team. But best case scenario is maybe 4 years?

That doesn't mean they can't make the playoffs once in the next 4 years, I just don't think it will be a regular thing if it happens.

If Askarov is actually a stud then this could really speed things up for them. I'm not sure how I feel about Askarov's current abilities, but I do think he's definitely one of those goalies that has the potential to be the next really good goalie to breakout.

 

[Richer's Ghost]

He's playing on San Jose. That's basically the minors for at least the next half decade.

I think the fact he will be starting games in the NHL was his goal and SJ won't suck for long - it's a destination favorable to getting talent in quicker than most.

I wish we could have landed him but I also didn't want to lose Mercer.

 

[JrFischer54]

The Sharks have more high talent coming through their pipeline than Nashville does. Nashville has 33 year old ROR as their 1C in the Central. The Stars/Avs are going to boat race them every year in the first round even if they make the playoffs. Also sure, the Devils have had 1 playoff run with this core, we all would take auto playoffs with this core but the Predators have hit a wall where they have to do something with their current core or else the rebuild they're gonna have is on par with SJ has had.

not every team is going to win the cup even with their windows. i'm just saying that calling a team that avg 95pts last 3 seasons mediocre is a reach and a half even for this board. sure the sharks on paper look like they are stacked have great prospects but thats all they are at this moment.

I don't disagree with much of this, other than I think they're still a ways out.

The one thing I haven't considered in the argument that they won't be bad for much longer is that their division is really bad. I agree with that and really didn't take that into much consideration. Although I'd still be really shocked if McDrai leave Edmonton and Vegas really falters this soon, but Anaheim probably aren't better off than they are right now and Calgary is really stuck in the mud.

I think I'd still give it 5 years before saying they could start being a consistent playoff team. But best case scenario is maybe 4 years?

That doesn't mean they can't make the playoffs once in the next 4 years, I just don't think it will be a regular thing if it happens.

If Askarov is actually a stud then this could really speed things up for them. I'm not sure how I feel about Askarov's current abilities, but I do think he's definitely one of those goalies that has the potential to be the next really good goalie to breakout.

on the flip side bringing in askarov (if hes legit) could also mask and cover up a lot of weaknesses when this team should be bottoming out and picking up more talent during the next 5 years. much like cory did here


lot of unknowns but great for convo in august thats for sure. also i agree with trotz decision on going with saros but he fumbled the bag by not letting this kid be a backup this year. he knows more about this kid then we certainly do so that to me is a little sus

 

[Guadana]

I don't disagree with much of this, other than I think they're still a ways out.

The one thing I haven't considered in the argument that they won't be bad for much longer is that their division is really bad. I agree with that and really didn't take that into much consideration. Although I'd still be really shocked if McDrai leave Edmonton and Vegas really falters this soon, but Anaheim probably aren't better off than they are right now and Calgary is really stuck in the mud.

I think I'd still give it 5 years before saying they could start being a consistent playoff team. But best case scenario is maybe 4 years?

That doesn't mean they can't make the playoffs once in the next 4 years, I just don't think it will be a regular thing if it happens.

If Askarov is actually a stud then this could really speed things up for them. I'm not sure how I feel about Askarov's current abilities, but I do think he's definitely one of those goalies that has the potential to be the next really good goalie to breakout.

We are talking about different things a little bit. May be they will take 3 may be four years. Im saying that they already have all the pieces. But mostly all of them are there. Sometimes teams can find the way to speed up. Sometimes teams cant do it(say hello to buffalo).

 

[JrFischer54]

I think the fact he will be starting games in the NHL was his goal and SJ won't suck for long - it's a destination favorable to getting talent in quicker than most.

I wish we could have landed him but I also didn't want to lose Mercer.

mercer is such a nice piece to have but having a blue chip goalie at that age and would probably ink a nice favorable contract too? thats pretty sweet piece to have. would love to know what the ask from the devils was

 

[Bleedred]

Because it's hockey, we lost Parise/Kovy in a year span after winning the East, why can't it happen to Edmonton?

It can certainly happen

I just don't think it will, unless one (or both) of those guys are more unhappy in Edmonton than I can ever imagine, for whatever reason that may be.

It's been debated that the reason for Parise bouncing is he was butt hurt that Kovy got the big contract before he did. And the other arguments were the Suter factor, as well as the going home thing. I don't think there's anyone McDavid is currently mad about getting a deal before him, other than Drai, who is up before him, but it's not like he just walked in the door. He's been there longer than McDavid.

Is there potentially another player that McDavid (or Drai) really want to play with, who won't go to Edmonton? Do we think McDavid may want to go to Toronto to play?

It could happen, but the argument I see for it happening is often that it will be because Edmonton is a joke franchise, which they really aren't anymore, as they've been very competitive on the ice finally. Yes, they're a joke for the people they hire to run the team, like Stan Bowman (and Nicholson and Holland, though for different reasons), but they're no longer a joke on the ice and I think they can win there, as long as both stay together.

This will probably cause a Kovy debate (I don't think we've had enough of these this summer lol), but I do wonder if he would have left if Zach didn't? And I also wonder if the lockout and escrow really did piss him off, like he mentioned and other speculated?

And I still think there was some under the table thing with the sale of the team. I still think Lou had to have told him ''If you wanna leave or think you might wanna leave, then leave now. Let's get you off of the books here by the time the sale is complete. And not in a year or two when the recapture hit will be that much more''. But that's for a different topic.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

It can certainly happen

I just don't think it will, unless one (or both) of those guys are more unhappy in Edmonton than I can ever imagine, for whatever reason that may be.

It's been debated that the reason for Parise bouncing is he was butt hurt that Kovy got the big contract before he did. And the other arguments were the Suter factor, as well as the going home thing. I don't think there's anyone McDavid is currently mad about getting a deal before him, other than Drai, who is up before him, but it's not like he just walked in the door. He's been there longer than McDavid.

Is there potentially another player that McDavid (or Drai) really want to play with, who won't go to Edmonton? Do we think McDavid may want to go to Toronto to play?

It could happen, but the argument I see for it happening is often that it will be because Edmonton is a joke franchise, which they really aren't anymore, as they've been very competitive on the ice finally. Yes, they're a joke for the people they hire to run the team, like Stan Bowman (and Nicholson and Holland, though for different reasons), but they're no longer a joke on the ice and I think they can win there, as long as both stay together.

This will probably cause a Kovy debate (I don't think we've had enough of these this summer lol), but I do wonder if he would have left if Zach didn't? And I also wonder if he the lockout and escrow really did piss him off, like he mentioned and other speculated?

And I still think there was some under the table thing with the sale of the team. I still think Lou had to have told him ''If you wanna leave or think you might wanna leave, then leave now. Let's get you off of the books here by the time the sale is complete. And not in a year or two when the recapture hit will be that much more''. But that's for a different topic.

I mean, this also ignores the fact their next contracts will be bloated and you're probably paying Draisailt for his past performances than what you get in the future. McDavid will be McDavid. They're going to end up like the Penguins have with Sid/Malkin/Letang with their core being older and not being able to handle the youth of the league coming through. (Applies to prior post of McDavid/Drai staying with EDM).

And yeah I get that, but I'm saying we don't know anything about athletes anymore. Those 2 guys can wake up one day and say f*** Edmonton and proceed to walk back to back years. Look what happened to Calgary, Edmonton is going to trade these guys before it even gets to Calgary level but I'd lean them leaving more than them staying.

not every team is going to win the cup even with their windows. i'm just saying that calling a team that avg 95pts last 3 seasons mediocre is a reach and a half even for this board. sure the sharks on paper look like they are stacked have great prospects but thats all they are at this moment.

If your goal is to be a 95 point team the past 3 years, then sure. My goal is to win a cup, elite prospects + drafting > being a mediocre team from top to bottom. I can't believe a Devils fan, of all NHL fandoms, is arguing this. Nashville hasn't even won a round the past 6 years, what are we doing here? Not to mention, they literally missed the playoffs the year they had 92 points.

 

[Bleedred]

I mean, this also ignores the fact their next contracts will be bloated and you're probably paying Draisailt for his past performances than what you get in the future. McDavid will be McDavid. They're going to end up like the Penguins have with Sid/Malkin/Letang with their core being older and not being able to handle the youth of the league coming through

After they were eliminated from the playoffs in 2023 I said I think they'll win one of the next three cups. They made game 7 of the finals in the first of those 3 years. I still stand by that I think they'll win the cup in the next 2 years. A lot of people were laughing at that over on the mainboard when they went down 3 games to 2 to Vancouver in the second round. The thought of them winning the cup this past year after they went down 3-2 in that series was a joke to a lot of people.

Unless one of those guys (or both) are gone. But I have a hard time seeing McDavid going cupless. Ovechkin finally won the cup when he was coming up on 33. McDavid will be 4 years younger than Ovechkin was for his first cup by the time the next cup is awarded.

That doesn't mean he can't still win it after going somewhere else, but I still think they're staying in Edmonton. If I had to guess.

I think they'll age pretty well, much like Sid and Geno, which should keep them in contention for probably the next 5 years or possibly more.

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

After they were eliminated from the playoffs in 2023 I said I think they'll win one of the next three cups. They made game 7 of the finals in the first of those 3 years. I still stand by that I think they'll win the cup in the next 2 years. A lot of people were laughing at that over on the mainboard when they went down 3 games to 2 to Vancouver in the second round. The thought of them winning the cup this past year after they went down 3-2 in that series was a joke to a lot of people.

Unless one of those guys (or both) are gone. But I have a hard time seeing McDavid going cupless. Ovechkin finally won the cup when he was coming up on 33. McDavid will be 4 years younger than Ovechkin was for his first cup by the time the next cup is awarded.

That doesn't mean he can't still win it after going somewhere else, but I still think they're staying in Edmonton. If I had to guess.

I think they'll age pretty well, much like Sid and Geno, which should keep them in contention for probably the next 5 years or possibly more.

I don't think this will be questioned but we've seen the Pens struggle with teams in the playoffs because of those contracts that their stars got from the past Cup victories leading to depleted depth. It's a natural thing in sport, we did a ton with Lou, I'm not arguing it. I'm just saying I think the Sharks are the perfect spot to pounce for that division once the big dogs regress a little bit. Similar to what we did in 22-23.

I don't see McDavid going cupless but say Edmonton takes a step back this year and loses round 1-2 and then Drai said he wants a sign and trade elsewhere, you don't think the wheels wouldn't turn in McDavid's head to leave? He'd have less help + teams like the Ducks/Sharks/bottom barrel teams are stacking talent. If Drai stays, Edmonton will be good but we still don't know the McDavid mindset for the 2026 UFA either. The Oilers have a very treacherous track. This year is legit their best chance to win a Cup imo

 

[TheUnseenHand]

I'm ok with staying out of that trade. I really think Askarov is overrated.

 

[Darkauron]

I'm ok with staying out of that trade. I really think Askarov is overrated.

He really is. Plus his ego and he gets rattled easily...no thanks

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

I'm ok with staying out of that trade. I really think Askarov is overrated.

Prob has to do with the Russian goalie factor and how good they've been as a whole. I think he'll be in the 7-10 range of goalies yearly with the occasional top 3 year

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

Prob has to do with the Russian goalie factor and how good they've been as a whole. I think he'll be in the 7-10 range of goalies yearly with the occasional top 3 year

You never know with these guys. Samsonov was very highly rated too. Just have to see if his talent translates to the NHL level and translates consistently (i.e. he can have a great first year like Blackwood and Knight and then lose it).

At the end of the day the Devils needed a sure thing for this year and next, and Markstrom is a better bet than Askarov for that.

 

[KovalchukFistPump]

He should be able to pass at least one of the two worthless shitbag goalies they have signed this year and get an NHL job.

I understand where you're coming from but you gotta think that we can't have too many fans thinking like you in terms of what is a shitbag goalie or it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy with goalies shitting the bed here because of the mental side. Same thing as players that do fine in Oakland or Tampa but can't cut it for the Yankees.

Funny enough, Blackwood apparently was pretty good for SJ last year while Kahkonen was trash (according to their fans) and then KK comes here and plays better than Allen did (in less starts).

 

[ZachaFlockaFlame]

Nashville fans are the most out to lunch fans on the main board, lmfao. First got told that Askarov would sit back behind Saros the day he got extended and now they legit think the direction Trotz has them on is a good one lol

You never know with these guys. Samsonov was very highly rated too. Just have to see if his talent translates to the NHL level and translates consistently (i.e. he can have a great first year like Blackwood and Knight and then lose it).

At the end of the day the Devils needed a sure thing for this year and next, and Markstrom is a better bet than Askarov for that.

Yeah, they either implode in catastrophic fashion or become really elite. No in-between lol

 

[My3Sons]

This is one thing I'll never understand around here and elsewhere - money makes something like this feel worse, not better. A person who makes a lot of money believes themselves to be of high status and they have more freedoms in the rest of their life - they can purchase a lot more things, and they can pay people to do things in their life that they themselves don't want to do.

This is also true of people who never accomplish a thing in their life beyond marrying someone who makes a lot of money. Somehow that entitles them to high status and to treat the average person with less money as inferior. I will neither confirm nor deny that my wife's sister fits this to a T based on my observations.

 

[Zajacs Bowl Cut]

so which of our former bum goalies is SJ gonna dump?