Around the NHL — Episode XLXVII

[Relapsing]

Torts is out! Wild stuff.

 

[Blotto71]

Torts is out! Wild stuff.

No surprise for me, I felt the guy was over-due to be terminated at least a month ago.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Flyers should have committed harder to a rebuild, this half-assed "retool" approach almost never works, at least not long-term.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Hard to blame Torts for the Flyers' struggles.

Team doesn't have enough talent and has had the worst goaltending in the league by far.

Flyers have given up 43 more goals against than expected given the scoring chances faced. Next closest team is Chicago at 17.

But he's just not a rebuilding coach. Not the guy you want developing a bunch of young talented players, so makes sense they'd move on.

 

[Beech]

Hard to blame Torts for the Flyers' struggles.

Team doesn't have enough talent and has had the worst goaltending in the league by far.

Flyers have given up 43 more goals against than expected given the scoring chances faced. Next closest team is Chicago at 17.

But he's just not a rebuilding coach. Not the guy you want developing a bunch of young talented players, so makes sense they'd move on.

you would be reduced to tears, or laughter, if you saw how abysmal, Phili's drafting has been the last 9 years.

I mean; NOTHING.

If those idiots had guessed at picks, they would have done better.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

We should threaten the core of our team that if they don't make the playoffs, we're going to bring in John Tortorella.

 

[frightenedinmatenum2]

Flyers should have committed harder to a rebuild, this half-assed "retool" approach almost never works, at least not long-term.

It does work from time-to-time, but teams need to already have a base of top talent. It is not a direct apples to apples example, but Washington is a team who has done a tremendous job of re-tooling to the point that they went from a bubble team, to a top team (in a weak division).

Full scale rebuilds fail all the time. You can't judge all rebuilds by what happened in the last few years because teams like Arizona and Montreal rebuilt in what is going to go down as the greatest time ever to rebuild a hockey team and accrue assets. The last 5 years or so has been the greatest possible time for a team to rebuild if they either have the money to not care about winning (Montreal) or are in a situation where winning doesn't matter to their local market (Arizona without an arena).

I think that we will see less and less full scale rebuilds as time goes on, because the cap going up will leave less opportunity to leverage cap space for picks, and the rising cap floor means that there will be even more pressure on small or mid-market teams to consistently generate revenue. The Senators for example are never rebuilding again. The market can't handle it for at least another 20 years. The Melnyk rebuild (cost cutting) set the market and season ticket base back so drastically and now they are going to have to spend decades rebuilding it.

Teams like Montreal, Toronto, Chicago, NYR, etc - those teams could do patient 5 year rebuilds. Most other teams can't do that. It only worked for Arizona because they already had a foot out the door so killing the market in Arizona likely wasn't a major consideration for them.

 

[Micklebot]

Hard to blame Torts for the Flyers' struggles.

Team doesn't have enough talent and has had the worst goaltending in the league by far.

Flyers have given up 43 more goals against than expected given the scoring chances faced. Next closest team is Chicago at 17.

But he's just not a rebuilding coach. Not the guy you want developing a bunch of young talented players, so makes sense they'd move on.

Didn't he have some success in Clb in that role? Helped bring along Werenski, and Jones, I guess they got instant results, so idk if that counts, but that team was pretty young

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Flyers should have committed harder to a rebuild, this half-assed "retool" approach almost never works, at least not long-term.

LA Kings have done well with that approach

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Hard to blame Torts for the Flyers' struggles.

Team doesn't have enough talent and has had the worst goaltending in the league by far.

Flyers have given up 43 more goals against than expected given the scoring chances faced. Next closest team is Chicago at 17.

But he's just not a rebuilding coach. Not the guy you want developing a bunch of young talented players, so makes sense they'd move on.

Agree. I like Torts ..like you say he's not a guy to ride the struggles of a rebuilding team

 

[Wallet Inspector]

It does work from time-to-time, but teams need to already have a base of top talent. It is not a direct apples to apples example, but Washington is a team who has done a tremendous job of re-tooling to the point that they went from a bubble team, to a top team (in a weak division).

Full scale rebuilds fail all the time. You can't judge all rebuilds by what happened in the last few years because teams like Arizona and Montreal rebuilt in what is going to go down as the greatest time ever to rebuild a hockey team and accrue assets. The last 5 years or so has been the greatest possible time for a team to rebuild if they either have the money to not care about winning (Montreal) or are in a situation where winning doesn't matter to their local market (Arizona without an arena).

I think that we will see less and less full scale rebuilds as time goes on, because the cap going up will leave less opportunity to leverage cap space for picks, and the rising cap floor means that there will be even more pressure on small or mid-market teams to consistently generate revenue. The Senators for example are never rebuilding again. The market can't handle it for at least another 20 years. The Melnyk rebuild (cost cutting) set the market and season ticket base back so drastically and now they are going to have to spend decades rebuilding it.

Teams like Montreal, Toronto, Chicago, NYR, etc - those teams could do patient 5 year rebuilds. Most other teams can't do that. It only worked for Arizona because they already had a foot out the door so killing the market in Arizona likely wasn't a major consideration for them.

Getting picks for taking on bad contracts definitely helps a rebuild but it isn't absolutely essential, the core aspects of a rebuild-trading your vets for futures and drafting high-can still obviously be done with a rising cap.

 

[Xspyrit]

you would be reduced to tears, or laughter, if you saw how abysmal, Phili's drafting has been the last 9 years.

I mean; NOTHING.

If those idiots had guessed at picks, they would have done better.

No idea where you are pulling this idea from...

Carter Hart (Exiled like Formenton)
Nolan Patrick (ravaged by injuries)
Morgan Frost (traded)
Noah Cates
Joel Farabee (traded)
Samuel Ersson
Cam York
Bobby Brink
Tyson Foerster
Emil Andrae
Cutter Gauthier (traded)
Matvei Michkov
Oliver Bonk
Jett Luchanko
Several other recent prospects

They didn't draft that high outside of Patrick and recently... Here's the earliest picks they had :

22, 2, 14, 19, 14, 23, 46, 5, 7, 13

It's not spectacular but outside of the Patrick pick, which was also a lot of bad luck, when they had the opportunity to draft high they didn't miss with Michkov (future superstar) and Gauthier (should be a high end player as well). Unfortunately for them, they had to trade him. Even several other mid first round picks (Farabee, York, Foerster, Bonk, Luchanko) don't look bad at all.

 

[bicboi64]

Philly can still have a good rebuild. Doesn't hurt to have good vets around (Konecny, Seeler, Sanheim) that aren't good enough to get them out of the basement, but can insulate developing guys like Mitchkov. They've got guys that can be an impact guy going forward like Tippett and young guys like Cates, Forestor, Drysdale, and York that have loads of development left.

They'll have a top 5 draft pick this season, an additional 2 first rounders from Edm and Colorado, and like 4 second rounders to keep filling the cupboards. If they can move from some bad deals (Risto, Fedotov, Coots) and move some of their draft capital for a decent goalie I think they can get back on track. They've got time to build a strong team before Mitchkov's next deal.

 

[Tuna99]

Man Havlat not back checking on the Friesen goal, I was at the game, that puck went throguh Reddens skates like 2 mm on either side, couldn’t believe it.

 

[Tuna99]

I don’t even think he’s worth 9 million now. His numbers aren’t sustainable. I get why they did it though.

It’s like how we trade Norris when he has a +20% shooting percentage, he’ll never have that in his career again, Caps buying high on Chychryn like the Sabers did

 

[PatrickEaves]

Man Havlat not back checking on the Friesen goal, I was at the game, that puck went throguh Reddens skates like 2 mm on either side, couldn’t believe it.

I was having a good day until you reminded me of that goal.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Amazing indeed

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[swiftwin]

Lmao, our odds for everything is better than Edmonton.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

We should threaten the core of our team that if they don't make the playoffs, we're going to bring in John Tortorella.

Honestly....I'd love to see Torts coaching Brady. That would be a match made in heaven.

 

[BondraTime]

Sens getting a lot of help.

East wild card teams are absolute dog this year

 

[Micklebot]

Sens getting a lot of help.

East wild card teams are absolute dog this year

We're on pace for 93-94 pts which is pretty much what we should have targeted at the start of the season, maybe 96pts to give us a cushion. We're doing our part regardless of what the rest of the league does,

Having said that, the 2nd Wild card is projecting to take 87 pts which I believe would be the lowest in a decade. That's been the projected threshold since way back in Dec, maybe earlier, so we shouldn't be all that surprised. There are just a lot of teams that are in that bubble, so nobody is getting a free ride.

What I do find interesting is the west's record against the east, and the east's record against the west is remarkably similar, West is 242-193-51 against the east, 90.26 pt pace. East is 244-195-47 against the West, 90.26 pts pace. In the west, one team is really carrying the load in that record, the Wild pacing at 120pts per 82 vs the east,, while a couple teams really suck against the East (Chi and Nsh pacing around 56-58 pts). The east vs the west, the worst team is pacing at 74 pts (phi), top at 108 (Fla and Wsh),

 

[BondraTime]

We're on pace for 93-94 pts which is pretty much what we should have targeted at the start of the season, maybe 96pts to give us a cushion. We're doing our part regardless of what the rest of the league does,

Having said that, the 2nd Wild card is projecting to take 87 pts which I believe would be the lowest in a decade. That's been the projected threshold since way back in Dec, maybe earlier, so we shouldn't be all that surprised. There are just a lot of teams that are in that bubble, so nobody is getting a free ride.

What I do find interesting is the west's record against the east, and the east's record against the west is remarkably similar, West is 242-193-51 against the east, 90.26 pt pace. East is 244-195-47 against the West, 90.26 pts pace. In the west, one team is really carrying the load in that record, the Wild pacing at 120pts per 82 vs the east,, while a couple teams really suck against the East (Chi and Nsh pacing around 56-58 pts). The east vs the west, the worst team is pacing at 74 pts (phi), top at 108 (Fla and Wsh),

All 5 teams battling for the wildcard spot have records lower than .500 over the past 10 games battling for the final spot

 

[Micklebot]

All 5 teams battling for the wildcard spot have records lower than .500 over the past 10 games battling for the final spot

Well that's not true, Mtl is 3-3-4 so exactly 500, NYI are 4-3-3, but the overall point that they're not making up ground is true, but that's going to happen over an 82 game stretch,

 

[BondraTime]

Well that's not true, Mtl is 3-3-4 so exactly 500, NYI are 4-3-3, but the overall point that they're not making up ground is true, but that's going to happen over an 82 game stretch,

That's my fault, I still use wins as a barometer rather than loser points

5 teams, all battling for essentially 1 spot, and not 1 of them can win 5 games in a 10 game stretch where they need to pick up wins