Around the NHL — Episode XLXVII

[NyQuil]

Give Zibanejad arguably a top three offensive defensmen like Hughes and Petersson and we'll see. Maybe Zibanejad is inferior or maybe it's always been his environment and supporting cast?

Er, Fox is pretty good?

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

a little tilt

 

[Golden_Jet]

I never really understood the booing for Bettman. I mean, it's a business and he has made it very successful.

Care to explain why he would get booed here? McDavid is getting suspended? 4 nations tournament? What am I missing?

It doesn’t make any sense, just seems like a rant, like the other ones.
Imagine thinking McDavid doesn’t deserve a suspension.

 

[Icelevel]

a little tilt

Jesus. Get the ice packs ready.

 

[Xspyrit]

To be fair I think this team is better with Amadio than without him or with anyone else internally replacing him. He’s the type of player that goes a bit under the radar but provides a steady and sound game every night.

He’ll produce more going forward I have no doubt. I think for him it didn’t help that Pinto was cold to start the season, then Perron got hurt when they were starting to find chemitry and then he got injured himself.

Amadio has a wildly different role than guys like Tomasino or Kaliyev. This team was trying to improve defensively and bring that winning mindset of focusing on the defensive side of things before going for offense. Amadio as a player encapsulates that vision and it’s paid off. In that sense Staios hit the mark with the additions he’s made, including Green. The team is top 10 defensively in shots allowed and goals against which is night and day compared to last season.

Now that Staios has at least in part solved the defensive struggles that have forever plagued this team, he’s lost some offense in the process. We need an upgrade on Giroux and probably another “wildcard” type add and we should be in good position next season. To me Staios did great with the hand he was dealt. Adjustments are always required along the way, that’s where we are right now.

With Yakemchuk coming in on defense and Greig/Pinto/Ostapchuk coming into their own we should be a playoff team next season without any major changes (replacing G is the one move I see here that needs to happen).

Amadio is ok, a bit like peak Chris Tierney (but will never be as productive), but he's a pretty average bottom-6 winger in my books. I was talking about having some cap flexibility for the season so Amadio seems to be the contract we could have not made. It could also have been Perron but for just 1.4 AAV more, I think the potential reward was bigger. And it was ONE year less.

As for defensive play, seriously I don't really have the desire and motivation to talk about Amadio, but we moved Joseph for him, a top PKer in the league for years and years. If we paid to move Joseph, IMO we should have kept the cap space open until we find something really helpful, like a 6.6 AAV player (Perron and Amadio cap combined)

As I have already mentioned (and something I talked about for years), getting better defensively was a priority for this team. It's a good step in the right direction but we regressed badly offensively so not ideal yet... We're 9th for GA/GP but 24th for GF/GP

As you say, we'll need to replace Giroux but not this year version, more a 35 y/o Giroux. Then also add a clear Top-6 forward.

?????? - Stutzle - Batherson
Tkachuk - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - Giroux

IMO, Perron and Amadio contracts are "in the way"

Note : Don't expect too much offense from Ostapchuk, he's a checker at the NHL level. Greig who is one my favorites can be a high end 3rd liner but I don't see more. TBD about Pinto.

Kakko for Borgen and picks is a salary swap, and despite Borgen having a very poor season, the last two seasons he was a clear puckmoving defensive #4RHD. There's no way we'd have moved ZUb or Jensen and a pick for Kakko. We didn't have the cap space for Carrier, and Barron is not just some random throw in piece either. Yeah we absolutely should have been on Kovacevic, maybe Montreal demanded a lot more to trade in division, idk.

Borgen was productive the last 2 seasons but he was 6th on Seattle in TOI/GP (EV too) in 2022-23 and 5th in 2023-24.

Zub was worth considerably more for various reasons. Jensen was more proven too but had less value than Zub. It could have been him but since he was return for Chychrun (and the immense price we paid) forget it lol. We needed both Zub and Jensen anyway so couldn't move them. It would have been JBD and picks instead, with the picks being a bit more quality for Borgen-JBD difference

But moot point, the reason we can't be on any trade to improve the team (like the Habs did with Laine and Carrier) is that we don't have cap flexibility. Just another awesome heritage stuff by Dorion.

 

[bicboi64]

I never really understood the booing for Bettman. I mean, it's a business and he has made it very successful.

He's a lot more pro owner than players (which is his job) and his obsession with keeping the Yotes in Arizona was ridiculous.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

He's a lot more pro owner than players (which is his job) and his obsession with keeping the Yotes in Arizona was ridiculous.

Not to mention dinging the Senators with a heavy punishment of the 1st round pick and a heavy handed suspension for Pinto. I get punishments were needed, but I think both are over the top, and unfair to a new owner that just paid a hair shy of a billion dollars.

 

[Xspyrit]

He's a lot more pro owner than players (which is his job) and his obsession with keeping the Yotes in Arizona was ridiculous.

All business related. His job and interest is not cater to the average hockey fan, of course.

 

[bicboi64]

Not to mention dinging the Senators with a heavy punishment of the 1st round pick and a heavy handed suspension for Pinto. I get punishments were needed, but I think both are over the top, and unfair to a new owner that just paid a hair shy of a billion dollars.

Can't recall if its Bettman that does the hiring, but if he hired Parros to lead the DoPS, another reason to boo him

 

[HSF]

Amadio is ok, a bit like peak Chris Tierney (but will never be as productive), but he's a pretty average bottom-6 winger in my books. I was talking about having some cap flexibility for the season so Amadio seems to be the contract we could have not made. It could also have been Perron but for just 1.4 AAV more, I think the potential reward was bigger. And it was ONE year less.

As for defensive play, seriously I don't really have the desire and motivation to talk about Amadio, but we moved Joseph for him, a top PKer in the league for years and years. If we paid to move Joseph, IMO we should have kept the cap space open until we find something really helpful, like a 6.6 AAV player (Perron and Amadio cap combined)

As I have already mentioned (and something I talked about for years), getting better defensively was a priority for this team. It's a good step in the right direction but we regressed badly offensively so not ideal yet... We're 9th for GA/GP but 24th for GF/GP

As you say, we'll need to replace Giroux but not this year version, more a 35 y/o Giroux. Then also add a clear Top-6 forward.

?????? - Stutzle - Batherson
Tkachuk - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - Giroux

IMO, Perron and Amadio contracts are "in the way"

Note : Don't expect too much offense from Ostapchuk, he's a checker at the NHL level. Greig who is one my favorites can be a high end 3rd liner but I don't see more. TBD about Pinto.



Borgen was productive the last 2 seasons but he was 6th on Seattle in TOI/GP (EV too) in 2022-23 and 5th in 2023-24.

Zub was worth considerably more for various reasons. Jensen was more proven too but had less value than Zub. It could have been him but since he was return for Chychrun (and the immense price we paid) forget it lol. We needed both Zub and Jensen anyway so couldn't move them. It would have been JBD and picks instead, with the picks being a bit more quality for Borgen-JBD difference

But moot point, the reason we can't be on any trade to improve the team (like the Habs did with Laine and Carrier) is that we don't have cap flexibility. Just another awesome heritage stuff by Dorion.

Staois also should take some blame for being right up to the cap. He spent a lot of money this summer

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Can't recall if its Bettman that does the hiring, but if he hired Parros to lead the DoPS, another reason to boo him

Agreed. That department is a mess. Might as well put a dart board up and let a monkey fling darts at it to decide punishments.

Edit: TIL that the Pinto suspension was the longest suspension ever handed down by the NHL that wasn't a full lifetime ban. Absolute lunacy for it to warrant that imo.

 

[Boud]

Amadio is ok, a bit like peak Chris Tierney (but will never be as productive), but he's a pretty average bottom-6 winger in my books. I was talking about having some cap flexibility for the season so Amadio seems to be the contract we could have not made. It could also have been Perron but for just 1.4 AAV more, I think the potential reward was bigger. And it was ONE year less.

As for defensive play, seriously I don't really have the desire and motivation to talk about Amadio, but we moved Joseph for him, a top PKer in the league for years and years. If we paid to move Joseph, IMO we should have kept the cap space open until we find something really helpful, like a 6.6 AAV player (Perron and Amadio cap combined)

As I have already mentioned (and something I talked about for years), getting better defensively was a priority for this team. It's a good step in the right direction but we regressed badly offensively so not ideal yet... We're 9th for GA/GP but 24th for GF/GP

As you say, we'll need to replace Giroux but not this year version, more a 35 y/o Giroux. Then also add a clear Top-6 forward.

?????? - Stutzle - Batherson
Tkachuk - Norris - ??????
Greig - Pinto - Giroux

IMO, Perron and Amadio contracts are "in the way"

Note : Don't expect too much offense from Ostapchuk, he's a checker at the NHL level. Greig who is one my favorites can be a high end 3rd liner but I don't see more. TBD about Pinto.



Borgen was productive the last 2 seasons but he was 6th on Seattle in TOI/GP (EV too) in 2022-23 and 5th in 2023-24.

Zub was worth considerably more for various reasons. Jensen was more proven too but had less value than Zub. It could have been him but since he was return for Chychrun (and the immense price we paid) forget it lol. We needed both Zub and Jensen anyway so couldn't move them. It would have been JBD and picks instead, with the picks being a bit more quality for Borgen-JBD difference

But moot point, the reason we can't be on any trade to improve the team (like the Habs did with Laine and Carrier) is that we don't have cap flexibility. Just another awesome heritage stuff by Dorion.

Tierney was never a good player. More like a beneficiary of getting a lot of minutes on bad teams, with teammates that are better than him. The other thing is the guy just couldn’t skate.

Amadio was a 3rd line player on a cup winning team just 2 seasons ago and had 10 points in 16 games during their cup run. It’s not like he was a passenger on that team. I think he will be a key player well worth his money for the duration of his contract here. You don’t get much nowadays for 2.6M and as I said you can’t replace him internally. At some point our 3rd line is going to find chemistry (hopefully they can all be healthy) and we will see the full value of what Amadio can bring. I wouldn’t necessarily base my entire opinion of him on 30 some games playing all around the lineup on a new team and system.

The Joseph trade happened for other reasons than hockey, let’s be honest here. I agree with you that keeping Joseph would’ve made a lot of sense. He’s lightning quick, plays good defensively and has offensive flair. When he was traded I couldn’t believe we paid to get rid of him. I always thought we needed more players like him.

There’s more to it here because as a hockey player he was a great fit on this team. Either Martin communicated with Staios that he wasn’t a fit here or maybe he was partying too much - god knows this is pure speculation on my part but I do seriously think there was an ulterior motive than just getting rid of him for no reason. He was rumoured to be on the move for like a full year before he was traded so again I do think there’s something there. It doesn’t line up that we had to pay to trade a perfectly useful player thay many teams would’ve liked to have on their roster.

For the record Joseph has been horrible this year and has been healthy scratched multiple times. In hindsight, it really looks like a good move to have gotten rid of him at this stage.

 

[Xspyrit]

Tierney was never a good player. More like a beneficiary of getting a lot of minutes on bad teams, with teammates that are better than him. The other thing is the guy just couldn’t skate.

Amadio was a 3rd line player on a cup winning team just 2 seasons ago and had 10 points in 16 games during their cup run. It’s not like he was a passenger on that team. I think he will be a key player well worth his money for the duration of his contract here. You don’t get much nowadays for 2.6M and as I said you can’t replace him internally. At some point our 3rd line is going to find chemistry (hopefully they can all be healthy) and we will see the full value of what Amadio can bring. I wouldn’t necessarily base my entire opinion of him on 30 some games playing all around the lineup on a new team and system.

The Joseph trade happened for other reasons than hockey, let’s be honest here. I agree with you that keeping Joseph would’ve made a lot of sense. He’s lightning quick, plays good defensively and has offensive flair. When he was traded I couldn’t believe we paid to get rid of him. I always thought we needed more players like him.

There’s more to it here because as a hockey player he was a great fit on this team. Either Martin communicated with Staios that he wasn’t a fit here or maybe he was partying too much - god knows this is pure speculation on my part but I do seriously think there was an ulterior motive than just getting rid of him for no reason. He was rumoured to be on the move for like a full year before he was traded so again I do think there’s something there. It doesn’t line up that we had to pay to trade a perfectly useful player thay many teams would’ve liked to have on their roster.

For the record Joseph has been horrible this year and has been healthy scratched multiple times. In hindsight, it really looks like a good move to have gotten rid of him at this stage.

Amadio is not really a great skater either. Tierney had 125 pts in his peak (3 best seasons). Amadio so far has 72 pts in his peak (3 best seasons). Tierney in these 3 seasons played (ES + PP) 14:26, 15:20 and 14:52. Amadio played 12:35 on average. Sure there's a 2+ minutes of difference but Tierney almost doubled Amadio's production in a lower scoring environment.

That said, I still don't think Tierney was any better, just another average vanilla 3rd line player. A better passer but not as a good defensively. I hope you're right and Amadio's signing will eventually pay off. So far, I prefer all of Gaudette, Cousins and even Gregor signings for 1/3 of the cost each.

Agreed with Joseph, there must be a problem with him/them, as the Blues quickly moved on from his brother as well. It's ok, I accept it I wish we didn't pay to move him but it's done now.

Regarding his stats this year, it doesn't matter because we'll never know how he would have done if he stayed here. Maybe he would have gotten injured, etc. This is what I call the butterfly effect.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Amadio is not really a great skater either. Tierney had 125 pts in his peak (3 best seasons). Amadio so far has 72 pts in his peak (3 best seasons). Tierney in these 3 seasons played (ES + PP) 14:26, 15:20 and 14:52. Amadio played 12:35 on average. Sure there's a 2+ minutes of difference but Tierney almost doubled Amadio's production in a lower scoring environment.

That said, I still don't think Tierney was any better, just another average vanilla 3rd line player. A better passer but not as a good defensively. I hope you're right and Amadio's signing will eventually pay off. So far, I prefer all of Gaudette, Cousins and even Gregor signings for 1/3 of the cost each.

Agreed with Joseph, there must be a problem with him/them, as the Blues quickly moved on from his brother as well. It's ok, I accept it I wish we didn't pay to move him but it's done now.

Regarding his stats this year, it doesn't matter because we'll never know how he would have done if he stayed here. Maybe he would have gotten injured, etc. This is what I call the butterfly effect.

Ya that was odd. I watched a little special they had on Sportsnet (I think, maybe TSN) that was all about the Brothers and them living/playing together. Couple days later the brother was dealt. Weird situation to me.

 

[Xspyrit]

Ya that was odd. I watched a little special they had on Sportsnet (I think, maybe TSN) that was all about the Brothers and them living/playing together. Couple days later the brother was dealt. Weird situation to me.

They are actually related to the family of one of my friends but seriously, I'm not going to investigate on this, their private life is not my business.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

They are actually related to the family of one of my friends but seriously, I'm not going to investigate on this, their private life is not my business.

Totally reasonable. No need to look in to it. They seemed to be stoked about living together, so I kind of felt bad for them when I saw one was dealt away so quickly.