Around the League Thread | The Conference Finals Begin!

[Jerry the great]

Yup, unless all of the non-accused are lying together to help their friends, it's a farce this went to trial.

And the fact that the accuser has said she adopted a 'porn star persona' and that 'it's possible' that she was the one who dragged Formenton into the bathroom indicates that they are almost certainly telling the truth.

I would have no problem if we signed any of these players once the trial is over.

Michael McLeod would be a solid pickup

 

[Ernie]

https://archive.is/jzkuS

Goddamn all the 5 men seem innocent as f***. What a stupid ordeal. E.M was egging them on and calling them p***yes for hesitating.

Rosie DiManno is an opinion columnist known for stirring up controversy and misrepresenting facts and has been charged with assault. Let's just say she would never be on a victim's side here.

The key drama seems to be that Brett Howden has changed his testimony to support the players as well claiming he doesn't remember things. He's not accused of physically engaging but appears to have been witness to a lot of the alleged assault and is probably covering his own ass. The judge has already suggested feigning ignorance which could carry a perjury charge (though it would be hard to prove). The Crown is basically trying to force him to acknowledge his previous statements that were pretty damning against the defendants, including that she tried to put her clothes on multiple times and was crying while the players tried to get her to stay.

Here are some texts from him:

“Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl's ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurts so bad.”

“Dude, I'm so happy I left when all the shit went down. Ha ha.”

The fact that he says he witnessed these events but left before the "shit went down" says that we may be only hearing the tip of the iceberg about what she went through.

 

[JT Milker]

There is a high likelihood that these guys will not be convicted, but there’s a very low likelihood that they are truly “innocent”.

 

[Jyrki]

Yup, unless all of the non-accused are lying together to help their friends, it's a farce this went to trial.

They were acutely aware they may have been doing something criminal and were quite literally coached by Hockey Canada to line up their statements before the police even started their investigation . So yes, they've been covering each other's asses since Day 1.

 

[SeawaterOnIce]

There is a high likelihood that these guys will not be convicted, but there’s a very low likelihood that they are truly “innocent”.

Let's be real here. Pro-sports players along with the programs have been toxic to the core for decades and stuff like this has happened in the past as well.

I'm not excusing these guys or the SA claims but you are seeing an uptick in these stories when it comes to pro-sports players in Europe too. At a minimum, you should have agents, club team officials, leagues and the programs drilling home the message to avoid risky situations.

 

[MS]

They were acutely aware they may have been doing something criminal and were quite literally coached by Hockey Canada to line up their statements before the police even started their investigation . So yes, they've been covering each other's asses since Day 1.

I mean, there was a police complaint about this almost immediately so of course actions were taken and I have no doubts that they're smoothing some of the rough edges off what happened.

But generally speaking, the facts of the case seem to fit what the players are saying and what the accuser is saying has been largely exposed as total BS.

And like I said previously, I'm not a 'yeah dumb sluts always lying' guy who sides with the accused in stuff like this - I think this is *terrible* that such a weak case was prosecuted as it will undermine the credibility of future legitimate victims.

 

[Jyrki]

I mean, there was a police complaint about this almost immediately so of course actions were taken and I have no doubts that they're smoothing some of the rough edges off what happened.

But generally speaking, the facts of the case seem to fit what the players are saying and what the accuser is saying has been largely exposed as total BS.

And like I said previously, I'm not a 'yeah dumb sluts always lying' guy who sides with the accused in stuff like this - I think this is *terrible* that such a weak case was prosecuted as it will undermine the credibility of future legitimate victims.

I don't know how you can simultaneously believe E.M. is full of shit while also believing Hockey Canada would get the defendants to line up their statements prior to talking to police just to "smooth rough edges". Or that their sudden onset of amnesia is apparently completely normal, despite being presented extensive evidence that should've jogged their memories.

 

[I am toxic]

They were acutely aware they may have been doing something criminal and were quite literally coached by Hockey Canada to line up their statements before the police even started their investigation . So yes, they've been covering each other's asses since Day 1.

It's pretty clear they engaged in reprensible activity, and are now lying to cover each others' asses

The Crown clearly wants the 2018 statements from the players to be part of the evidence, but it has been blocked in pre-trial hearings, and it will be interesting to see if the trial judge grants today's application under S 9(2) of the Canadian Evidence Act by the Crown regarding Howden lying on the stand

No wonder Hockey Canada tried to cover it up, then authorized the full payment when the suit was filed, and then apologized and got rid of the Board when it became public

It will also be interesting to see how Batherson testifies - it would just take one player to tell the truth to blow the lid off things

Certainly enough reasonable doubt for some/most/all the charges in criminal court, but also more than enough evidence of abhorrent behaviour that should have resulted in sanctions against these players from the very beginning

And most people are unaware of the second woman's experience at Jack's (seems it won't be entered as evidence, or was ruled inadmissable in pre-trial altho no reports of that) , and we still have not heard from the Peel Police on their investigation (won't be released until long after the trial, and would not be admissable anyway)

 

[vancityluongo]

Yup, unless all of the non-accused are lying together to help their friends, it's a farce this went to trial.

generally don't disagree that it sucks that a case with this many holes became this high profile because of the potential consequences in terms of future incidents having victims think twice before coming forward but uh

it's not exactly an unbelievable thought that the non-accused are all stretching the truth / protecting the accused. much of the premise here is that there's a top down invincibility culture within elite hockey circles like hockey canada that allowed this kind of thing to happen in the first place, and now we suddenly think that brett howden is going to throw a bunch of these guys under the bus and just stroll back to vegas to play in the league against adam foote and ryan mcleod without facing the slightest amount of ostracization?

whether what they did was illegal or not, idk what the judge will decide, and i'm not following the trial closely enough to speculate. just don't think it's beyond question that there's potential collusion taking place here.

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

Step 1: Hire Colin Campbell's son
Step 2: Win Stanley Cup

If step 1 fails, George Parros has 14 year old twins. Hire them now Patrik

 

[pitseleh]

While it’s easy to second guess the decision to charge, the prosecutor would have reasonably expected Howden to say the same things he did before, like the following via Rick Westhead:

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the shit went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told an investigator, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

Cunningham also said that in a 2018 interview with an investigator, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

is there a universe where the five guys walk but howden gets charged for perjury or obstruction of justice?

i don’t know what the legal bar is for something like that, but from westhead’s account it feels like there’s a case against him

 

[racerjoe]

is there a universe where the five guys walk but howden gets charged for perjury or obstruction of justice?

i don’t know what the legal bar is for something like that, but from westhead’s account it feels like there’s a case against him

I would say from the sounds of it absolutely.

 

[LemonSauceD]

While it’s easy to second guess the decision to charge, the prosecutor would have reasonably expected Howden to say the same things he did before, like the following via Rick Westhead:

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the shit went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told an investigator, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

Cunningham also said that in a 2018 interview with an investigator, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”

Interesting.

 

[I am toxic]

we have seen testimony from some of the guys present but not charged, who made statements back in 2018, and are now claiming they can't remember if a woman is naked or clothed, or if a player has his pants on or not

it's clear that they are lying about not being able to remember - all their memory loss is selective, trying to downplay the events, while remembering other things that bolster the defense

I would be shocked if the jury didn't see through it, and clearly the judge can see it but has to follow the rules of evidence meticulously

 

[credulous]

they'll probably get off because our justice system is imperfect and because the standard for conviction is high but there's zero doubt these players were morally and ethically guilty of what they're charged with

i'll stop following the canucks if they sign any of them. i'm also considering cancelling my vegas season tickets depending what happens with howden

 

[Canucker]

When nobody in the entire incident is really all that credible or savory, it's hard to prosecute anybody...the biggest loser in this is the Canadian tax payer.

 

[bossram]

While it’s easy to second guess the decision to charge, the prosecutor would have reasonably expected Howden to say the same things he did before, like the following via Rick Westhead:

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the shit went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told an investigator, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

Cunningham also said that in a 2018 interview with an investigator, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”

Howden originally said he wanted to leave because it was getting too uncomfortable and didn't want to be part of what was happening. Now on the stand, he conveniently can't remember anything.

Interesting.

 

[bossram]

generally don't disagree that it sucks that a case with this many holes became this high profile because of the potential consequences in terms of future incidents having victims think twice before coming forward but uh

it's not exactly an unbelievable thought that the non-accused are all stretching the truth / protecting the accused. much of the premise here is that there's a top down invincibility culture within elite hockey circles like hockey canada that allowed this kind of thing to happen in the first place, and now we suddenly think that brett howden is going to throw a bunch of these guys under the bus and just stroll back to vegas to play in the league against adam foote and ryan mcleod without facing the slightest amount of ostracization?

whether what they did was illegal or not, idk what the judge will decide, and i'm not following the trial closely enough to speculate. just don't think it's beyond question that there's potential collusion taking place here.

Honestly I think it's pretty indisputable that all the accused and other players involved were colluding to cover their asses. They literally said so in text messages to each other.

 

[StreetHawk]

When nobody in the entire incident is really all that credible or savory, it's hard to prosecute anybody...the biggest loser in this is the Canadian tax payer.

When the prosecution is depending on someone within that Team to be a key witness for them, you really can't bet that when that person gets to the stand that they will still be on your side, unless that player is clearly going to stand up and against the others.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

it almost feels like the difference in opinion here is just that some posters are reading about this from the star while others are reading the globe or westhead on tsn.ca

 

[I am toxic]

Honestly I think it's pretty indisputable that all the accused and other players involved were colluding to cover their asses. They literally said so in text messages to each other.

howden can't credibly claim he can't remember - he has already testified that he "remembers" the complainant "was the instigator of sexual activity in that room."

There has been collusion and ass covering from the very beginning - Henien Hutchison, Robitaille and Hockey Canada, and the players involved themselves, have all served to obstruct justice

 

[Canucker]

When the prosecution is depending on someone within that Team to be a key witness for them, you really can't bet that when that person gets to the stand that they will still be on your side, unless that player is clearly going to stand up and against the others.

For sure, but I don't think EM has really come across very well which makes it even harder to prosecute effectively...everyone has their own opinion on who is believable and who isn't...for me, I have a hard time believing any of them...at least based on the information I've seen/heard so far.

 

[HairyKneel]

Unreal how Florida keeps doing it.

Canes are just ugh...

Nobody is ugh. It's one game.

 

[andora]

While it’s easy to second guess the decision to charge, the prosecutor would have reasonably expected Howden to say the same things he did before, like the following via Rick Westhead:

Cunningham read a text message Howden sent to Team Canada teammate Taylor Raddysh in 2018 in which Howden wrote, “Dude, I’m so happy I left when all the shit went down. Haha. Man, when I was leaving, Duber was smacking this girl’s ass so hard. Like, it looks like it hurt so bad.”

Cunningham said that in 2022, Howden told an investigator, “I do remember seeing the smack. That was drawing a line for me to leave because I had felt uncomfortable to that point. Once I had seen that, I just wanted to be out of there…”

Cunningham also said that in a 2018 interview with an investigator, Howden said, “I just heard her kind of weeping. I didn’t know what was going on. I went to my room because I didn’t want to be part of anything.”

The only thing there is the part about her weeping the other stuff could be torn apart