Around the League Thread | New Year, New Me

  • Xenforo Cloud will be upgrading us to version 2.3.5 on March 3rd at 12 AM GMT. This version has increased stability and fixes several bugs. We expect downtime for the duration of the update. The admin team will continue to work on existing issues, templates and upgrade all necessary available addons to minimize impact of this new version. Click Here for Updates
The online scouting community has a real bias. It's a personal preference thing. Obviously a model does not. At no point have I ever said models are 100% accurate. Not even close. I usually word in things like "that will change" when referring to things the model will say. Who watches 10000 kids play hockey every year. No one. A model can give someone easy reference to how 10000 players are performing.
OK, thanks. Then how is that any different than what MS posted? He clearly stated it wasn't a certainty that a lower rated player couldn't exceed the ranking, only that the probability was lower.

The ranking system that has Willander higher, would on aggregate, be more accurate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: racerjoe
Last edited:
You can't see the difference between 'scouting players is difficult' and 'if your model produces a result that a top-10 pick is worse than a 3rd rounder, you might have a problem'?
If you don't like what the models says, scroll past. Don't comment. I don't care what you think of the model. I'd tell you that you have might have a problem with your analysis of players but I generally just scroll past.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bleach Clean
OK, thanks. Then how is that any different than what MS posted? He clearly stated it wasn't a certainty that a lower rated player couldn't exceed the ranking, only that the probability was lower.

The ranking system that has Willander higher, would on aggregate, be more accurate.
Why exactly would it be more accurate? Are players drafted and become exactly what they are projected to be every time?

If you don't like what MS says, scroll past.
It's just gonna have to happen.

The Rangers are awful, that 1st round pick is looking like gold for the Pens next year.
Unprotected first in 2026 could be real nice. If it's god damn Ottawa Senators nice.
 
That’s incorrect. UFA was 31 pre-2005. It dropped from 31 to 27 as part of the post 2005 lockout CBA.


There isn’t any real comparison to be drawn to the 1990s because now there is (1) a salary cap, (2) an individual player cap, (3) revenue sharing, and (4) a limit that 57% of revenue goes toward player salaries through the escrow system.

NY can’t spend 3-4x as much as another team like they did in the 90s, or pay McDavid the equivalent of $20 million per year like they could have done in the 90s. And because of revenue sharing the Canadian teams aren’t going generally going to face the same financial issues they did in the 90s, especially since the league won’t be spending 75% of revenue on salaries (as the league claimed at the time) like they were back then.

I think on balance a significant further reduction in the UFA age would benefit the premier destinations in the league who would have more opportunities to buy players, but to a limited extent because they would always be limited by the cap and the need to sign other players to fill out their roster and we’ve seen that players rarely take big discounts. But if anything I think the primary disparity it would create is magnifying the tax advantage benefit teams in low tax jurisdictions have.

Yeah that's my bad, I was thinking that raising UFA age was a point of contention with the 2005 CBA.
 
  • Like
Reactions: pitseleh
Kris Letang was an"undersized" 3rd round pick that was getting lots of PP in the QMJHL. That has been a star and has many Stanley cups. Was anyone predicting that in the scouting world when they drafted him in the 3rd? Which scout do you think had Gustav Forsling in the 5th round playing top pair and winning a Stanley cup as an undersized defencemen? The scouting community that drafted him in the 5th round.

Why do you think NHL organization's use analytics?
I haven't looked yet but if it explains what actually goes into the model could we plug letang on and see what it says

Or plug in a bunch of oldies and reverse check
 
I haven't looked yet but if it explains what actually goes into the model could we plug letang on and see what it says

Or plug in a bunch of oldies and reverse check
Letang was not a stellar Jr player and had a 8% 7% 10% 12% star potential in draft year to draft plus 3 year. His NHL (200 games) odds went from 28% 34% 54% 81%. He spent his draft plus 3 year in the NHL. The model most likely would have had him around a late 1st round pick. The models are always tougher on defencemen though.

He has his own rankings that are weighted 80% scouting from Bob, EP, Button, Daily face-off, hockey news and sports net and 20% from his model. Schaefer is rated 4th in it. We all know that isn't going to happen. The model ranks him 24th. Drafting D is hard and honestly the model shows that. There are misses. Knowing what a fwd will turn into is much easier. So if you use logic you can sift through the data and by using scouting, watching players play. Which I've never said you can just look at data and not scout.
 
Why exactly would it be more accurate? Are players drafted and become exactly what they are projected to be every time?
Do you mean that there's no accuracy to any system that evaluates players?

edit. ok the above post shows that's not what you meant. Anyhow, I just didn't understand why you seemed bothered by something that didn't seem to stray from your own opinion. It doesn't matter, so carry on.
 
Last edited:
Kris Letang was an"undersized" 3rd round pick that was getting lots of PP in the QMJHL. That has been a star and has many Stanley cups. Was anyone predicting that in the scouting world when they drafted him in the 3rd? Which scout do you think had Gustav Forsling in the 5th round playing top pair and winning a Stanley cup as an undersized defencemen? The scouting community that drafted him in the 5th round.

Why do you think NHL organization's use analytics?

Letang was not a stellar Jr player and had a 8% 7% 10% 12% star potential in draft year to draft plus 3 year. His NHL (200 games) odds went from 28% 34% 54% 81%. He spent his draft plus 3 year in the NHL. The model most likely would have had him around a late 1st round pick. The models are always tougher on defencemen though.
Letang is a poor example. He had a pretty meteoritic rise and was considered by many to be the better of him and Bourdon when they played on the same team. Those stat watching wouldn’t have seen that.
 
I wasn't watching but Oilers clawed their way back from 3-0 against Leafs, then their 4-3 game tying goal was disallowed?

What happened there?
 

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad